hard drive being replaced; told I must return existing hard drive

pwd

The hard drive on my Dell laptop is causing my system to lock up.
It is under warranty. I called them last week. They said it would need to be replaced. They said they would need to take the existing hard drive.
I said I did not want this, because there is confidential information on it. I asked if the engineer could clone the drive. They said he could not because of legal issues with data access. They said I could buy the [broken] hard drive back if I wanted. I said I did not want to buy my own hard drive that was under warranty or something.
I decided to back up the content of the drive and create a disc image, then delete the content of the drive using one of those wiper programs that replace everything with 1s and 0s. Then just put the image on the new drive.
There is confidential information on it, as I have been using it for postgraduate research and development.
I have created the disc image and backed up data. However I'm concerned there will be some problem with restoring the same, after the hard drive is gone. At the time I made the call, I could only use the computer in safe mode, since it would lock up after a normal startup. [I can start up normally now for some reason]. So it seems reasonable that there might be a problem with the disc image etc.
The way I see it, I should be able to keep the old hard drive, because of the issues with data protection, and with the potential problems with recovering the data and installed programs myself.
I would also be able to compromise if they left the hard drive with me until I can make sure I can restore the system on the new hard drive, and can delete the content of the old one.
Where do I stand with this?

MagicMarker

It's porn isn't it?

aidan_walsh

Check the terms of the warranty and/or terms and conditions of repairs. It could well state in there something along the lines of original parts become the property of Dell. Of course the data is yours, but that would depend on how much you would trust their privacy policy.

pwd

It's not After Hours

pwd

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Check the terms of the warranty and/or terms and conditions of repairs. It could well state in there something along the lines of original parts become the property of Dell. Of course the data is yours, but that would depend on how much you would trust their privacy policy.

Yes they do:

8.9 Dell owns any Product or parts that are removed during repair. Dell may require Customer to return removed parts to Dell for reconditioning, analysis or for environmental reasons.
8.10 If Customer does not return removed parts Dell then may charge a fee of which Customer will be informed prior to charge. The fee will reflect the cost incurred by Dell in retrieving the part(s), &/or the cost of procuring another component to recondition &/or arising from failure to comply with environmental obligations as a result of the Customer's failure to return the Product or part.
8.11 The charge referred to in 8.9 and 8.10 above will not apply to Consumers returning defective parts which have been replaced in accordance with statutory rights.

I'll tell them I won't consider the repair to have been carried out until I have restored my system and data. I don't care if they take the hard drive or not; I'm just concerned about losing work etc.

Sponge Bob

You can clone the image onto an external usb drive and your data will appear, just make sure the drive is same size or larger than the original. You are responsible for YOUR data , not Dell.

pwd

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You can clone the image onto an external usb drive and your data will appear, just make sure the drive is same size or larger than the original. You are responsible for YOUR data , not Dell.

already doing pretty much that.
But the engineer is scheduled to come tomorrow. I have an enclosure and other internal hard drives but they are smaller. So I am using an external drive instead [I checked that the computer can boot from a usb device first].

pwd

pwd wrote: »

already doing pretty much that.
But the engineer is scheduled to come tomorrow. I have an enclosure and other internal hard drives but they are smaller. So I am using an external drive instead [I checked that the computer can boot from a usb device first].

that is very odd: The quote of your post is different to how it is displayed to me now. Must have been edited at some point or something.

buy an external usb 2.5in enclosure in maplin, chuck hard drive in of sme or greater size , clone image onto it with the same imaging software and all your data will magically appear.

Sponge Bob

3.5 cheaper , edited .

dreamers75

Fairly sure Dell will look after your data.

jor el

pwd wrote: »

The way I see it, I should be able to keep the old hard drive, because of the issues with data protection, and with the potential problems with recovering the data and installed programs myself.

No, you're getting it replaced, so you can't keep it and replace it. It's one or the other. The issue of confidential information is nothing to do with warranties or rights.

Why are you cloning the drive, when it leave you open to the possibility of the image being corrupted? Why not just copy off the relevant information that you need, and copy that back onto the fresh drive supplied by Dell? You can safely wipe the old drive once you have a backup of the info. No need to go messing with images.

pwd

because as well as the data it would take some time to reinstall everything etc

old_aussie

jor el wrote: »

Why are you cloning the drive, when it leave you open to the possibility of the image being corrupted? Why not just copy off the relevant information that you need, and copy that back onto the fresh drive supplied by Dell? You can safely wipe the old drive once you have a backup of the info. No need to go messing with images.

That's the way to do it, don't clone the drive.

Run_to_da_hills

You can get out of this problem easily if you want to hold on to your original HDD.

Purchase a new HDD, fit it and instal it in a few minutes and then reinstall the the op system / system disks that originally came with the machine.

You might be able to rescue the data from the old HDD placing it in a freezer for a few hours and then putting it into a USB caddy, sometimes works. You can also get someone to replace the control card on the back of the HDD if you can locate one of the exact same model.

Last resort is data retrieval which is very expensive (More than the PC is worth :eek: ) and I doubt if Dell are going to entertain it. They will only replace the drive and will do so only with an exchange.

pwd

Please read the existing posts and avoid repeating what's already here. There are only a few.

I see Windows 7 disc imaging seems to facilitate restoring to the internal hard drive only - not to an external drive.

Mike...

Try this if your just want to delete your files

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darik's_Boot_and_Nuke

Cabaal

pwd wrote: »

because as well as the data it would take some time to reinstall everything etc

So?
Welcome to fixing computer problems where reinstalling stuff becomes a fact of life, given its research stuff how many applications can you have that are research related?

mickoneill30

pwd wrote: »

because as well as the data it would take some time to reinstall everything etc

You're 100% sure that your problem is a faulty HDD? I've had plenty of drives go faulty but for it to cause your PC to lock up but still all your data to be fine would be unusual. It's not impossible I suppose.

By cloning, if the problem is with software you're moving the problem to the new hard drive. Or if the problem isn't with the hard drive then you'll have the same problem. Then you're back to square one.

If an engineer is fitting the hard drive I'm guessing he'll have a Dell image on the drive. He won't care about your apps or data. So installing your apps and restoring your data won't take so long. If you overwrite the new HDD with your old image and it has a problem it'll be up to you to reinstall.

As to your warranty. That's an extension of your statutory rights. Your statutory rights are repair / replace / refund. If you don't like the warranty in the manual you can fall back on your statutory rights and then theres small claims court if Dell don't offer you one of those (which they are), or if you don't like what they offer. You'd need an excellent reason four court though and saying your data is confidential is not an excellent reason.

Sponge Bob

mickoneill30 wrote: »

By cloning, if the problem is with software you're moving the problem to the new hard drive. Or if the problem isn't with the hard drive then you'll have the same problem. Then you're back to square one.

Not really , he won't boot off the cloned drive. You would be correct if it was the internal ( boot drive)

pickarooney

If it's of any use to you (and apologies for the vagueness of this, but someone might know what I'm talking about) there is a program, mentioned on a list somewhere in Computers and Technology, which lets you install from a long list of programs just by pre-ticking a set of boxes and letting the installer download and run all the EXEs. It could take some of the pain out of reinstalling.

I think cloning is pointless - just copy what you can to an external drive and send back the disk. Dell tech really doesn't give a damn what's on there, so I wouldn't be too concerned about wiping it completely.

mickoneill30

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Not really , he won't boot off the cloned drive. You would be correct if it was the internal ( boot drive)

I can't see where he says he won't boot off the cloned drive. He's talking about it taking a while to reinstall. I took that to mean OS & apps. They're normally on the boot drive.

If the drive is just for data then it's no hassle at all. Clone, pop in new HDD, restore image, done. But if it's for OS & apps then I wouldn't bother cloning.

pickarooney wrote: »

If it's of any use to you (and apologies for the vagueness of this, but someone might know what I'm talking about) there is a program, mentioned on a list somewhere in Computers and Technology, which lets you install from a long list of programs just by pre-ticking a set of boxes and letting the installer download and run all the EXEs. It could take some of the pain out of reinstalling.

This?
http://ninite.com/

mlmcelligott

This happened to me with an IBM thinkpad too. The harddrive died after a few months and IBM sent out a new one with a set of install disks to get me back up and running. They requested the old harddrive back too and I had the same privacy issues. When the delivery guy arrived I asked what would happen the old harddrive and he said it would just be binned so I took a hammer to it and gave it to him in bits. He didnt seem to mind and only had to check a box on his form that he got it back.

I wouldnt trust harddrive wiping software, I prefer the hammer method.

Sponge Bob

The hammer method is the ONLY method I recommend for confidential data.

pwd

i was told they return it to the manufacturer to recover parts when i asked on the phone...sounds like bs though.

mlmcelligott

pwd wrote: »

i was told they return it to the manufacturer to recover parts when i asked on the phone...sounds like bs though.

i dont think they recover parts from old harddrives. How could they offer a warrenty on a new harddrive with parts from an old one that was deemed defective.

Heres what one police department in the states did with their old hardrive
http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-1032342.html

keithclancy

We just shredded the drives from our old office.

Throw in a drive and watch it get turned into lots of little bits

ttm

OP's problem does seem a bit strange as in the past I've had very similar problems with data on HDD's and I just asked the Dell reps if I could hang onto the old HDD untill I was sure I had all the data off it. In all cases I got the usual line of having to pay for it if it wasn't returned but there was never a problem with me keeping the drive, and in most cases I never bothered returing them. What use is a broken or potentially broken HDD to anyone?

keithclancy

ttm wrote: »

OP's problem does seem a bit strange as in the past I've had very similar problems with data on HDD's and I just asked the Dell reps if I could hang onto the old HDD untill I was sure I had all the data off it. In all cases I got the usual line of having to pay for it if it wasn't returned but there was never a problem with me keeping the drive, and in most cases I never bothered returing them. What use is a broken or potentially broken HDD to anyone?

None,

But how are the supposed to know if your just blagging a second drive.

Sponge Bob

They probably got the OP to run a diagnostic off the diagnostic partition to show it is defective before they agreed a return so they know it is faulty.

keithclancy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They probably got the OP to run a diagnostic off the diagnostic partition to show it is defective before they agreed a return so they know it is faulty.

That doesn't prove anything, the customer could just lookup the error thats supposed to come up on the net and say "no, doesn't work" and get a new drive.

This is why companies like apple and dell takes credit card details for exchange parts.

If you took an Item back to a shop the shop would want the faulty goods back before they'd give you a refund.

jor el

keithclancy wrote: »

None,

But how are the supposed to know if your just blagging a second drive.

It will also need to go back to the manufacturer so that the retailer (Dell) can claim refund on the replacement. After that. it's probably scrapped and re-cycled (melted down).

If you can't take the risk of data being discovered on the drive, then you can't have it replaced. To physically destroy the disk, by smashing into bits (the only truly reliable method) would invalidate your warranty and rights.

pwd

ttm wrote: »

OP's problem does seem a bit strange as in the past I've had very similar problems with data on HDD's and I just asked the Dell reps if I could hang onto the old HDD untill I was sure I had all the data off it. In all cases I got the usual line of having to pay for it if it wasn't returned but there was never a problem with me keeping the drive, and in most cases I never bothered returing them. What use is a broken or potentially broken HDD to anyone?

The engineer came around this morning. He said they let you keep the drive for a week if you need to recover data from it before collecting it.

This makes sense, and is a good policy for maintaining customer satisfaction etc.

What doesn't make sense is that in my original call I made it very clear I was concerned about data on the drive, and asked about cloning etc. However he insisted I would need to return the drive to the engineer or buy it back from them. He then asked me to speak to his manager to give feedback on their service at the end of the call. I said I was happy with the service by the individual etc but that I thought there should be some policies to handle this sort of situation and spoke again about being concerned with my data. The manager also didn't mention anything about being able to hold onto the drive.

aidan_walsh

pickarooney wrote: »

If it's of any use to you (and apologies for the vagueness of this, but someone might know what I'm talking about) there is a program, mentioned on a list somewhere in Computers and Technology, which lets you install from a long list of programs just by pre-ticking a set of boxes and letting the installer download and run all the EXEs. It could take some of the pain out of reinstalling.

I think cloning is pointless - just copy what you can to an external drive and send back the disk. Dell tech really doesn't give a damn what's on there, so I wouldn't be too concerned about wiping it completely.

http://ninite.com/

pwd

Cabaal wrote: »

So?
Welcome to fixing computer problems where reinstalling stuff becomes a fact of life, given its research stuff how many applications can you have that are research related?

Research and development. I have numerous programs installed which are required for both. I also have other things installed such as games. I have 150 programs installed, most of which I would need or want to restore asap. That is a lot of inconvenience.

ttm

keithclancy wrote: »

None,

But how are the supposed to know if your just blagging a second drive.

They don't but that is the downside of having your support in Mumbai, with the money they save they can afford to send out the odd HDD. The old one is no use to them whatsoever so if you handle them sencibly and make it easy for them like saving them the cost of sending out an engineer then why wouldn't they send you a new drive if the man in Mumbai thinks thats what is required. The quality of the guys that do the onsite work isn't always great (its been an entry level job for several of the engineers I've spoken to) so you are often better off doing the work yourself. I got a call a while back from someone who had a Dell ""engineer"" onsite installing a new PC who couldn't connect a network printer.

pwd

mickoneill30 wrote: »

You're 100% sure that your problem is a faulty HDD? I've had plenty of drives go faulty but for it to cause your PC to lock up but still all your data to be fine would be unusual. It's not impossible I suppose.

By cloning, if the problem is with software you're moving the problem to the new hard drive. Or if the problem isn't with the hard drive then you'll have the same problem. Then you're back to square one.

If an engineer is fitting the hard drive I'm guessing he'll have a Dell image on the drive. He won't care about your apps or data. So installing your apps and restoring your data won't take so long. If you overwrite the new HDD with your old image and it has a problem it'll be up to you to reinstall.

As to your warranty. That's an extension of your statutory rights. Your statutory rights are repair / replace / refund. If you don't like the warranty in the manual you can fall back on your statutory rights and then theres small claims court if Dell don't offer you one of those (which they are), or if you don't like what they offer. You'd need an excellent reason four court though and saying your data is confidential is not an excellent reason.

Diagnostics indicated errors with reading and seeking on the hard drive.

I have Windows 7 installed. I bought the computer with Vista installed. Dell can only install software that you purchased from Dell, for obvious reasons, and I did not purchase Windows 7 from Dell [I got it free through ieee in fact].

ttm

pwd wrote: »

The engineer came around this morning. He said they let you keep the drive for a week if you need to recover data from it before collecting it.

......

And how exactly did the engineer say you were to return it?

pwd

mlmcelligott wrote: »

This happened to me with an IBM thinkpad too. The harddrive died after a few months and IBM sent out a new one with a set of install disks to get me back up and running. They requested the old harddrive back too and I had the same privacy issues. When the delivery guy arrived I asked what would happen the old harddrive and he said it would just be binned so I took a hammer to it and gave it to him in bits. He didnt seem to mind and only had to check a box on his form that he got it back.

I wouldnt trust harddrive wiping software, I prefer the hammer method.

You might be surprised how little people will take issue with things you do, when you are smashing things with a hammer in front of them

pwd

ttm wrote: »

And how exactly did the engineer say you were to return it?

Dell will arrange for it to be collected.
[Or possibly not, if they decide the cost of a courier is more than the value of an old broken hard drive.]

ttm

pwd wrote: »

Dell will arrange for it to be collected.
[Or possibly not, if they decide the cost of a courier is more than the value of an old broken hard drive.]

That was the point I was trying to make

the_syco

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The hammer method is the ONLY method I recommend for confidential data.

Agreed. But Dell could view this as damage caused by user, and charge you via bill in the post.

Sponge Bob

pwd wrote: »

Research and development. I have numerous programs installed which are required for both. I also have other things installed such as games. I have 150 programs installed, most of which I would need or want to restore asap. That is a lot of inconvenience.

You should make a habit of regularly cloning your drive before/in case it goes so.

pwd

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You should make a habit of regularly cloning your drive before/in case it goes so.

This is true, and something I usually have done; but the most recent image I have now is of the Vista setup, just before I installed Windows 7.

slimjimmc

pwd wrote: »

i was told they return it to the manufacturer to recover parts when i asked on the phone...sounds like bs though.

bs it is not.
Disk drives contain many mechanical and electronic components but usually only one or two have failed. Those components can be replaced by the factory and the drive re-sold, or if the drive is beyond repair its components can be salvaged for valuable precious metals such as gold.