European Band 1 Analouge TV -does it still exist

Mike 1972

How many countries still use it ?

What about digital are any countries using band 1 for DTT ?

Is it possible to receive DTT signals via SpE propagation ?

watty

I'm nearly sure no-one is using Band I for DTT.

I suspect apart from the RTE Trials of Band III DTT (maybe over 10 years ago?) no-one uses Band III for DTT either. The whole point of DTT is to release spectrum. It's likely that UHF TV band will lose 150MHz or more.

UK is actually having a London Band I 405 Line "test transmission"....

We used to get Spanish VHF, maybe band III in Limerick. But not any longer

In 2009, the analog service started its closure in a process that lasted one year. On April 3, 2010, the analog service was officially discontinued.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies

DX DTT is possible.

watty

Some ATSC stations in the US are still using Band I frequencies but it's a very small number, most are now on UHF.

watty wrote: »

UK is actually having a London Band I 405 Line "test transmission"....

That's still going ahead? Last I heard of that was many years ago!

winston_1

Germany uses band 3 for DTT from a transmitter in Berlin I believe.
There is not much band 1 left. Iceland is still on and has been received this year via sporadic E. Otherwise eastern europe and the middle east are still using band 1.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

I suspect apart from the RTE Trials of Band III DTT (maybe over 10 years ago?) no-one uses Band III for DTT either.

winston_1 wrote: »

Germany uses band 3 for DTT from a transmitter in Berlin I believe.

Both Sweden (1 mux DVB-T2) and Finland (2 mux DVB-T2) are allocating Band III for HD DTT, in Italy and Berlin (will eventually move to UHF) for regular DVB-T. The Ukraine, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania plan to use Band III for DTT after ASO, others such as Belgium, Czech Rep, Portugal have not ruled it out.

This from an EBU Technical Review (January 2007) document

2.2. Frequency bands
Band I (47 -68 MHz) was not planned for digital broadcasting at RRC-06 and is regulated by the revised Stockholm Agreement. The band is not included in the RSPG definition of digital dividend. However, after analogue TV has been switched off, it may also be considered for new applications, taking into account that there are already non-broadcasting services in a number of countries. Band I is less attractive than Bands III, IV or V for many services due to:

• its long wavelength, and therefore large antenna dimensions;
• its susceptibility to ionospheric interference from the Sporadic E-layer;
• the high levels of man-made noise at these frequencies.

In general, not much interest has been expressed for Band I. Currently some DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) experiments take place in this band.

The European Communications Office is currently reviewing Band I for possible DRM use.

watty

TBH putting DVB-t in Band III makes sense unless you are a DAB fan.

I suppose RTE abandonment of DVB-t on BandIII is due to UK and IRL DAB rollouts?


The original reason for Band I in the 1930s was technology and bandwidth. Electronic "High Definition" (405 to 440 regarded as HD then) needed much more bandwidth. This was only possible above 30MHz. The Valve receivers and Transmitters meant that 40Mhz to 60MHz band was logical choice. Early TVs (even in 1950s) had only band I and there were "add-on" set-top boxes (some had cables that plugged into an existing internal valve socket and original valve plugged by user into converter) when ITV started in Band III.

150MHz to 300MHz was regarded as UHF in the 1920s to 1940s!

This is why some of the earlier countries to launch VHF-FM radio used 60Mhz to 80MHz and later adopters used 87Mhz to 108MHz. The US moved FM Radio from top of Band 1 to BandII. The Japanese still use 76MHz to 90Mhz approx for FM Radio. Eastern Europe/Russian may have used/use 68Mhz upwards for FM radio.

40MHz to 80Mhz is not too bad for Mobile radio, and if you coil load the whip it can Band II radio sized. It's an interesting idea for DRM as like DAB+ it uses AAC and can equal or better regular DAB using MP2 codec. If RTE used all the original VHF sites and the newer larger area UHF sites for 42MHz Band I DRM or DRM+ you could easily have Nationwide Mobile and Indoor coverage much cheaper and fewer sites than DAB on 200MHz approx Band III. Easily have 10 to 20 stations with suitable muxes. (DRM can do multiplex not just single channels and RTE has tested this on 252Khz)

reslfj

winston_1 wrote: »

Germany uses band 3 for DTT from a transmitter in Berlin I believe.

VHF in Berlin as mentioned by The Cush using channel 5 and 7.
http://www.mabb.de/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/DVB-T_Belegung_Juli10.pdf

Germany has one GE06 VHF band III layer, but will move all DTT to Ch 21-60. Original plan was to convert the DDT VHF layer into 4 additional T-DAB layers. But DAB is not moving fast in Germany - if at all.

The Cush wrote: »

Both Sweden (1 mux DVB-T2) and Finland (2 mux DVB-T2) are allocating Band III for HD DTT, in Italy ...

Finland got two VHF DTT layers (and no T-DAB layers) at GE06. They will start later this year and cover over 60% of households before 2012.
The license was for HDTV only , but I believe a mix of SD and HD channels will be allowed (using DVB-T2).

Sweden will use VHF band III close to its borders (only ~40% households will need a VHF aerial), where more UHF channels cannot be allocated. The same signal will then be broadcast on UHF in areas like Stockholm.
Sweden has cleared its 6th (UHF) mux and the extra UHF mux - MUX M* - in the Mälerdalen (greater Stockholm) by June 1. 2010. Mux6 will restart and the new hybrid MUX7/Mux M will start later this year - both using DVB-T2/MPEG-4 . Coverage will be between 96 and 98% before 2012.

Denmark has GE06 allocation for one VHF band III layer, but it is not yet allocated for anything but 'future broadcast use'. This VHF layer has some restrictions until analogue is switched off in Poland. It can however be used at full GE06 ERP in most of the country.

Italy: http://www.europa7.it/ Pay-TV Europa 7 will use a DVB-T2 SFN on VHF channel 8.
RAI seems to have a license to another VHF channel.

Back to VHF band I -

Band I was used in Denmark until November 1. 2009 for the main public service channel - DR1 - in Copenhagen, channel 4 and on the island of Fyn, channel 3.

Channel 2,3 and 4 were used in Sweden until (4 weeks after) DSO at 7 main TX sites - Stockholm/Nacka being one (ERP 60-100kW)

Channel 2,3 and 4 were used at some TX main sites in Norway until ASO (2008-2009).


Lars

* SE-MUX M was used for the SVT-HD test until March 2010.

lawhec

Countries in Europe still using VHF Band I for analogue transmission (off the top of my head and to the best of my knowledge...)

* France (Canal +)
* Italy (loads!)
* Czech Republic (Nova from Prague on R1 at least)
* Croatia (HRT on E4)
* Serbia (RTS on E3)
* Albania (RTSH on Italian channel C)
* Hungary (M1 on R1 in Budapest)
* Ukraine (several)
* Russia (several, esp. Channel 1)
* Belarus (BT)
* Iceland (RUV)

There's probably others, but I'm not 100% sure of them. Countries like Portugal, Poland, Slovenia, Austria and Ireland moved their Band I transmissions to Band III or UHF in recent years but haven't yet shut down analogue transmissions.

I thought at one point Australia had broadcast DVB-T in Band I but soon got corrected that this wasn't the case. Possibly a test transmission?

The only country I know that is still having DTT transmissions in Band I is, as already mentioned by Karsini, the USA but these are few and far between and are susceptible to problems. Apart from one station in Philadelphia, the rest are in rural areas or small towns.

In terms of DVB-T(2) in VHF Band III, Ireland has a single DTT layer from the Geneva 06 conference. the allocations are all high power (up to 200kW ERP) vertically polarised and act as regional SFNs. Frequency blocks use the European 7MHz wide allocations (as opposed to the Irish 8MHz allocations used for analogue broadcasts at present) ranging from E5 to E9. There are also a number of 1.7MHz allocation blocks intended for DAB/DMB radio but could also be used for DTT as DVB-T2 can transmit in a 1.7MHz wide mode as well as 6/7/8 MHz.

In other countries, apart from those already mentioned, Australia still widely uses Band III for DTT - the main cities have four multiplexes in this band and a few places (Tasmanian capital Hobart being the biggest) have five. In other areas, it may be restricted to one, maybe two. Some have none with all multiplexes in the UHF band.

New Zealand heavily uses VHF presently for analogue broadcasting (four different TV stations use 11 allocations in Bands I & III) but they have no plans to use VHF for DTT.

Japan & Brazil, two countries using ISDB-T (Brazil using a variant) are broadcasting only on UHF for the time being.

In Europe, with the idea of freeing up frequencies from 798MHz for non-broadcasting purposes (read most likely for mobile phone use), there might be pressures on finding frequencies to fit multiplexes in that have to be moved. In countries that had or are still broadcasting TV on Band III, it might open up again in due course.

Across the world, it looks like much of South America (except Columbia & Uruguay) look likely to adopt IDSB-Tb, their variant of the ISDB system in Japan - most of North America along with South Korea will be using ASTC while much of the rest of the world except China will be using DVB-T. It's NTSC/PAL/SECAM all over again...

The Cush

lawhec wrote: »

In terms of DVB-T(2) in VHF Band III, Ireland has a single DTT layer from the Geneva 06 conference. the allocations are all high power (up to 200kW ERP) vertically polarised and act as regional SFNs. Frequency blocks use the European 7MHz wide allocations (as opposed to the Irish 8MHz allocations used for analogue broadcasts at present) ranging from E5 to E9. There are also a number of 1.7MHz allocation blocks intended for DAB/DMB radio but could also be used for DTT as DVB-T2 can transmit in a 1.7MHz wide mode as well as 6/7/8 MHz.
...

This was an Irish VHF list I posted last year

The Cush wrote: »

This list of VHF Band III frequencies might be of interest

Analogue TV VHF Channels (8 MHz) used in Ireland
D (174 - 182) - MULLAGHANISH, MONAGHAN
E (182 - 190) - KIPPURE, MAGHERA
F (190 - 198) - MT LEINSTER, MONAGHAN
G (198 - 206) - MULLAGHANISH, TRUSKMORE
H (206 - 212) - KIPPURE, MAGHERA
I (214 - 222) - TRUSKMORE, MT LEINSTER
J (222 - 230) - not used

DAB Channels (1.75 MHz) allocated to Ireland at RRC-06
National
12C (227.360) - IRL DAB NAT 1 (on-air)
12A (223.936) - IRL DAB NAT 2
10A (209.936) - IRL DAB NAT 3

Regional
7C (192.352) - IRL DAB REG DONEGAL, IRL DAB REG DUB AREA 2
10B (211.648) - IRL DAB REG NORTH EAST
10D (215.072) - IRL DAB REG MIDLANDS
11A (216.928) - IRL DAB REG CORK
11B (218.640) - IRL DAB REG NORTH WEST, IRL DAB REG DUB AREA 1
11C (220.352) - IRL DAB REG SOUTH EAST
12B (225.648) - IRL DAB REG SOUTH WEST

Local
5B (176.640) - IRL DAB L LOUTH-MEATH
5C (178.352) - IRL DAB L DUBLIN CITY 2, IRL DAB L OY-WH
5D (180.064) - IRL DAB L DUBLIN CNTY 2

6A (181.936) - IRL DAB L DUBLIN CNTY 1
6B (183.648) - IRL DAB L WICKLOW
6C (185.360) - IRL DAB L CAVAN MONAGHAN, IRL DAB L CORK CITY 1
6D (187.072) - IRL DAB L CORK CITY 2, IRL DAB L DONEGAL, IRL DAB L KILDARE

7A (188.928) - IRL DAB L CORK CNTY 1, IRL DAB L CORK CNTY 1
7C (192.352) - IRL DAB L WATERFORD
7D (194.064) - IRL DAB L DUBLIN CITY 1, IRL DAB L KERRY

8A (195.936) - IRL DAB L LIMERICK, IRL DAB L SO-DL-LM
8C (199.360) - IRL DAB L RN-LD-SLM
8D (201.072) - IRL DAB L MAYO

9A (202.928) - IRL DAB L LS-OY-WH, IRL DAB L WEXFORD,
9B (204.640) - IRL DAB L GALWAY
9C (206.352) - IRL DAB L CW-KK

10C (213.360) - IRL DAB L CORK CNTY 2

11D (222.064) - IRL DAB L CLARE

12D (229.072) - IRL DAB L TIPPERARY

DVB-T VHF Channels (7 MHz) allocated to Ireland at RRC-06
5 (174 - 181) - IRL DTT NTH WEST, IRL DTT STH EAST
6 (181 - 188) - IRL DTT WEST
7 (188 - 195) - IRL DTT MIDLANDS
8 (195 - 202) - IRL DTT EAST
9 (202 - 209) - IRL DTT NTH EAST, IRL DTT STH WEST

N. Ireland DAB Channels (1.75 MHz) allocated at RRC-06
National
12B (225.648) - UK BBC (on-air)
11A (216.928) - NORTHERN IRELAND II

Regional
12D (229.072) - NORTHERN IRELAND I (on-air)

Local
10C (213.360) - BELFAST
11C (220.352) - LONDONDERRY
11D (222.064) - FERMANAGH & TYRONE

lawhec wrote: »

In Europe, with the idea of freeing up frequencies from 798MHz for non-broadcasting purposes (read most likely for mobile phone use), there might be pressures on finding frequencies to fit multiplexes in that have to be moved. In countries that had or are still broadcasting TV on Band III, it might open up again in due course.

Posted similar last year.

In 2007 Comreg's position on Band III was "Band III may be considered post analogue switch off" later in 2008 their position changed to "It is intended that Band III will not be used as part of Irelands National DTT service, which is due to launch late 2009". This position has to be declared officially before ASO so that existing VHF aerials are not unnecessarily removed if Comreg has a change of heart later on VHF DTT.

lawhec wrote: »

It's NTSC/PAL/SECAM all over again...

This site gives an overview of the different DTT standards in use throughout the world http://en.dtvstatus.net/.

watty

I think Italy are expecting to meet their Analogue Switch of Targets and France will likely have their analogue closed before us.

The Cush

Two reports of interest which provide information on Band I.

The 2005 EBU document attached lists the countries using Band I as of 1997.

This ECC draft report 117 for consultation, in Annex 10 lists a number of countries and their current and future use of Band I.