CIE Group Annual Reports 2009

KC61

The CIE Group Annual Reports for 2009 were published today.

They are available at:

CIE Group:
http://www.cie.ie/about_us/pdf/49297%20CIE%20AR09%20EN%20web.pdf

Dublin Bus
http://www.cie.ie/about_us/pdf/49297%20Dublin%20Bus%20AR09%20EN%20web.pdf

Bus Eireann
http://www.cie.ie/about_us/pdf/49297%20Bus%20Eireann%20AR09%20EN%20web.pdf

Iarnrod Eireann
http://www.cie.ie/about_us/pdf/49297%20Iarnrod%20Eireann%20AR09%20EN%20web.pdf

OurLadyofKnock

Payroll and related costs (266,790)

Wages and salaries (€000) = 252,76769

and get this:

Foreign Travel = 2,786786786


[/QUOTE]

Good grief that is a staggering payroll and foreign travel expenses for such a small railway company!

Judgement Day

Fairly dreadful stuff and I expect that 2010 is going shocking altogether. Passenger numbers already almost back to 2005 levels and CIE/IE are able to clearly identify the reason 'As a result of the economic recession, passenger journeys fell by 5.9m from 44.7m in 2008 to 38.8m in 2009 representing a 13% reduction in passenger volume over the year.' Of course it has nothing to do with passengers getting pissed off with slow, unreliable, over crowded, over priced trains and being tempted back into their cars.

I couldn't see a breakdown between inter-city and commuter traffic but there again I may have missed it. Also failed to notice any mention of on-going court cases. I have been reading these reports for years and they rarely throw any light on what is really going and meantime the train continues its relentless progress towards the buffer stops! :rolleyes:

Stonewolf

I love how for IE passenger numbers are at 2005 levels and yet passenger income is at 2006 levels

T Corolla

The CEO gets 331,565 euros per annum. Good God in heaven a company that has never recorded a profit and the head gets that. I sure there is CEO in other companies would love that for doing very liitle in comparsion.

parsi

13% drop in passenger volume is a mighty blow.

It's a pity they don't have to file the reports than publicly listed US companies file where they mention potential difficulties that might add flies to the ointment - that would cover such things as the ongoing court cases and what have you.

Cookie_Monster

Well of course numbers drop when prices don't in a recession and the punctuality is so bad, as well as the targets. A target of only 87% of DARTs within 5 min is a terribly low aiming point, and the result is not much better.

Trampas

I think IR and Ryanair have 1 thing in common when it comes to carrying people.

They treat each train/flight as a single journey and nobody wants to connect with another train/plane.

Lost count how many times I have missed my connection cause dart or commuter train been late.

dynamick

Maybe they should cut fares given that inflation is negative and they have plenty of excess capacity. Might increase revenue by drumming up some more business.

T Corolla

Trampas wrote: »

I think IR and Ryanair have 1 thing in common when it comes to carrying people.

They treat each train/flight as a single journey and nobody wants to connect with another train/plane.

Lost count how many times I have missed my connection cause dart or commuter train been late.

Not an adovocate of the ryanair empire.Ryanair dont run loses and if they did they cannot come to the state for money Michael O'Leary would die Ryanair is cheap and cheerful Irish rail cannot even line up the the branch line service with intercity services the most basic of skills required in running a transport company. You do'nt have to go far into the companies day to day service to see how bad it is. I am sure that any transport company could make it work with a little brain power. I think the Government should put the for sale sign on the intercity services and retain the short loop services to Maynooth and the Dart. They should sell the land back to the farmers and give them a reasonable income and they will make it back in taxes alot quicker. Ranting done breathing normal see clearly now. There needs to be some serious ass kicking done to turn around this company and stop the leaking of money down the gulley of the public finances. C'mon KC61 help me out with your contribution. I only a boy

KC61

Thanks T Corolla, I'm blushing now lol. I sense you want my views on Irish Rail.

In terms of the railway company, the focus from an investment perspective has been on renewing the single track routes, resignalling them and eradicating level crossings. This needs to continue, and while a lot of good work has been done in terms of fleet renewal, increases in frequency (who would ever have thought 20 years ago that the Sligo route would have 8 return services per day?), there has now got to be a renewed focus on journey times and reducing them to compete with the road. The journey times outlined in the recent Dept of Finance document for road travel have to be bettered by rail. No ifs or buts.

As I said in the Infrastructure forum a while back, the priorities ought to be in my opinion:

Carry out whatever work is necessary to get the Dublin/Cork line up to full line speed of 100mph or indeed 110mph for the maximum distance possible
- this MUST be priority #1 above everything else.
- this will benefit all services to Waterford, Galway/Mayo, Limerick and Tralee.
- it will also mean that "up" and "down" trains will pass at about the same time at Limerick Junction eliminating long layovers for passengers between Limerick and Waterford and enabling a meaningful service to be introduced on the regional routes from Limerick Junction to Waterford/Rosslare and Galway.

- Similarly get the Dublin/Belfast route up to full line speed

The problem with increasing frequency on single track routes, means trains have to "cross" (pass) more trains en route, and a scheduler must allow some slack in the timetable for potential delays at each crossing point resulting in longer journey times. Of course any long delay has serious knock-on effects.

So what's the solution? On the busier single track routes install dynamic passing loops (i.e. much longer double track sections to allow trains pass while moving rather than waiting in stations) thereby eliminating additional slack as follows:

Portarlington/Galway line:
- Install dynamic loops east of Tullamore to west of Clara; and from east of Ballinasloe to west of Woodlawn
- At the very least install a passing loop at Oranmore - this is essential if Athenry-Tuam is to reopen.

Maynooth/Sligo line:
- Extend double track west of Maynooth towards Kilcock,
- Double Killucan to Mullingar
- Install dynamic loops that extend either side of Edgeworthstown and Boyle

Cherryville/Waterford line:
- Install dynamic loops extending either side of Carlow and Ballyhale (the existing loop near Thomastown)

Limerick/Limerick Junction line:
- Double track the entire route

Mallow/Tralee line:
- Install a dynamic loop in the section between Killarney and Rathmore

Finally, at the same time work urgently to get rid of the ludicrous array of speed restrictions on the regional routes. The current 25mph restriction on the 12.5 miles from Killonan Junction (outside Limerick) to north of Birdhill on the Nenagh branch despite the line being relaid with CWR (although until recently not stressed) is farcical.

In terms of service provision - there has been a giant leap forward in recent years in terms of the numbers of trains available on many routes but I believe that further improvements are needed:

Belfast route - Needs a minimum two-hourly service increasing to hourly
Sligo route - Add a late evening service to Mullingar or Longford
Westport - Add a fifth daily service leaving Westport around 1000 to reduce overcrowding
Galway route - Go hourly
Waterford route - Needs an extra service between 0740 and 1045 from Waterford.
Rosslare route - Recast to connect with ferry sailings at Rosslare; add a mid-morning (1000) service in either direction. Work with infrastructural section to come up with a solution that allows a 37 minute journey time from Connolly to Greystones as the excessive journey time on this section is killing the route.
Galway/Limerick - Recast with revised and improved sectional running times that reflect the reality (journey time should be maximum of 1 hour 45 minutes), and connect to Limerick Junction services as a priority
Limerick/Waterford/Rosslare and Limerick/Ballybrophy - Eliminate TSRs and implement meaningful timetables with decent connections

In the Dublin area, the whole commuter service timetable in the Connolly area needs to be recast around the clockface DART timetable. Not doing that last year was criminal - to believe that people wanted their departure times to stay the same but would be prepared to accept longer journey times at the same time was madness. This needs to be fixed and fast. DART running times need to be examined. There has been a 9 minute increase in Howth/Bray journey time since DART started - 3 of those are down to new station stops, but why are there another 6?

There is a huge amount of work to be done to achieve all of the above and some won't be possible until the next delivery of rolling stock in 2011/2012. But fundamentally there is an urgent need to start thinking in terms of speed.

As far as the bus companies are concerned, well I think broadly speaking Dublin Bus is going in the right direction in terms of its Network Direct project and that, along with real time information and increased bus priority measures has the ability to vastly improve the service. We will have a better idea about that in 2011.

Bus Eireann have implemented some fairly sensible service reductions this year where user numbers were in the low single digits, and by and large they are also going in the right direction. Again it's probably a bit too early to pass judgement.

antoinolachtnai

I would differ on that. Safety, rather than speed and schedules, will be the priority for Irish Rail civil works or management for the next two or three years from what I can see. We nearly had 300 people drown in cold water in Malahide and arguments about the safety of increased speed limits have found their way to the courts. There are deep issues in the safety and engineering operations at Irish Rail and these have to be dealt with.

For the bus companies, well, it's just a plain commercial disaster. Carrying the same number of passengers as you did in 2001 in spite of having increased your fleet capacity by 20 percent and renewed nearly every single bus is a sign that you have no idea what you are doing. Everything is wrong.

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I would differ on that. Safety, rather than speed and schedules, will be the priority for Irish Rail civil works or management for the next two or three years from what I can see. We nearly had 300 people drown in cold water in Malahide and arguments about the safety of increased speed limits have found their way to the courts. There are deep issues in the safety and engineering operations at Irish Rail and these have to be dealt with.

For the bus companies, well, it's just a plain commercial disaster. Carrying the same number of passengers as you did in 2001 in spite of having increased your fleet capacity by 20 percent and renewed nearly every single bus is a sign that you have no idea what you are doing. Everything is wrong.

I would not in any way diminish the work that needs to be done in terms of safety. But in tandem with that if something is not done to start addressing the competitiveness of Intercity rail -v- road in terms of journey times (and reasonably quickly), customers are going to be lost and they may never come back. Already Galway is faster by up to 40 minutes by road from Dublin. Some of this are more easy to deliver than others, and can come from introducing more limited stop services (such as the 0710 from Waterford to Dublin).

No one disputes the problems that Dublin Bus have had. But, given that they are now undergoing a complete revamp in terms of network design, frequency, systems of control and passenger information I would say that is a company (albeit later than it should) addressing its issues. Also some of the problems (such as the lack of funding for AVLC and RTPI) were outside their control. Remember also that political interference has on numerous occasions in the past prevented the company from withdrawing pointless services until last year.

As for everything being wrong, I think that is going a bit too far, (but then again you're a competitor, albeit a small one by comparison). I use the bus every day (usually 4 services, but on certain days up to 8), and yes there are days when I've been left at a stop waiting, or where a connection hasn't worked, but by and large I've got to where I need to go when I expected to. There is a huge perception issue to be addressed and the company needs to get this Network Direct project right, along with the rest of the improvements.

It's very easy to look at the past, but as I said there are huge changes taking place across the bus company now, and I genuinely think we need to move on. I've never heard yet of any sensible judgements on such change processes in any organisation being passed until we start seeing the output.

Bus Eireann on the other hand came out of Deloitte with good reviews, and are implementing cost reduction measures so I'm not sure how you're criticising them.

antoinolachtnai

Bus Eireann's numbers are way down, just the same as Dublin Bus. And just like Dublin Bus, they have been massively capitalised since 2001. At the same time the subsidy has been massively increased. That is why I say everything is wrong. It should not work that way. If you get more money, you should be getting more passengers, not less.

At the end of the day, numbers are what it's all about. There has been no improvement in services and as a result no increase in passenger numbers. 'By and large' doesn't really cut it at this stage of the game. As for changing perceptions, DB is back to vague, silly advertising campaigns where it should be investing in passenger information.

Dublin Bus has had loads of money pumped into it since 2001. It is just wrong for it to say it couldn't get money. It would be more accurate to say that it spent the money on the wrong projects.

I think you are right about the rail network. It is hard to see a future for most of the intercity services the way things are going.

T Corolla

Thanks KC61 you the best. I was actually surprised as the final bill for Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus. I was sure that Bus Eireann would be wound up if Mc Carthy got his hands on it. From a financial point of view they could make modest changes to their service and probably break even in a five year term.
Looking at Dublin Bus from the same point I though not too bad but Irish rail I think they should construct cycle paths in some of their routes that are no longer in service i.e Mullingar-Athlone and the line Clairemorris to Cooloney. This would be a means of generating income from low level investment. This in turn would generate passenger on lower revenue generating services and would attract overseas tourist onto the services.

dowlingm

In fairness the intercity competitive landscape has changed markedly since the turn of the century with Aircoach etc. nibbling away at prime routes. With that said there is a paucity of strategic vision and sharing that vision with the public. Now with the desire to cut back in state enterprises all sorts of panic decisions may be coming down the pipeline.

antoinolachtnai

The strategic idea seems to be to use the interconnector to turn the network into a suburban/commuter system.

Stonewolf

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The strategic idea seems to be to use the interconnector to turn the network into a suburban/commuter system.

More like fix as many of the big problems as possible with Dublins commuter rail network with one big project and hope that this allows improvements to be made in intercity services due to the removal of bottlenecks and conflicts.

In my view any expansion of the DART network should be welcomed by intercity proponents as it increases the length of electrified track. Especially on the Nothern line.

antoinolachtnai

The problem is that the more suburban services you add, the fewer attractive time slots you will have left to run intercity. At the same time, Intercity just won't get significantly faster unless you more-or-less re-lay or even re-align the track. You can't justify expense for connections to cities the size of Galway, Sligo or even Cork.

dynamick

One view from today's paper...

Taxpayer taken for a ride by CIÉ’s mysterious ways

HOW Is possible that a State company can lose €77 million and no one cares? The answer is that it has to be the State transport company CIÉ, which despite receiving €754.5 million in public funds last year feels under no compulsion to explain how it has spent all this taxpayer money.

In keeping with its usual practice the company quietly produced its annual report and accounts for 2009 last week and told nobody. Unlike its peers, the other large State companies, CIÉ eschews any sort of publicity and thus avoids scrutiny. This paper only obtained a copy of the accounts after it contacted the company following an article in another publication in which the group executive chairman John Lynch disclosed selected figures. No mention was made of the annual report.

It’s a sensible enough policy from the company’s perspective, particularly when you are the public transport business.

The logic is not quite so compelling from the vantage point of the taxpayer or the consumers who pay for and depend on the organisations three subsidiaries, Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus.

It is hard to see how they benefit from CIÉ being allowed operate is quasi-secrecy rather than being subjected to the sort of public scrutiny that you might expect given the importance of the company.

They might be interested in knowing the justification for the huge State subsidies and how efficiently or otherwise they are spent. Equally, they might be curious about the extent to which it fulfils its public service mandate in return.

They might also wonder about the company’s pension deficit of €547 million – some €422.6 million of which was incurred in 2008 – which remains an unexplained mystery to most.

CIÉ enthusiasm for avoiding public scrutiny is one thing, but the willingness of the Minister of Transport and his department to go along with it is another.

But Noel Dempsey seems content with the current situation. Could this be because he does not fancy having to explain what he is going to do about anything in the annual report that does not please the travelling public?

Irish Times

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Bus Eireann's numbers are way down, just the same as Dublin Bus. And just like Dublin Bus, they have been massively capitalised since 2001. At the same time the subsidy has been massively increased. That is why I say everything is wrong. It should not work that way. If you get more money, you should be getting more passengers, not less.

At the end of the day, numbers are what it's all about. There has been no improvement in services and as a result no increase in passenger numbers. 'By and large' doesn't really cut it at this stage of the game. As for changing perceptions, DB is back to vague, silly advertising campaigns where it should be investing in passenger information.

Dublin Bus has had loads of money pumped into it since 2001. It is just wrong for it to say it couldn't get money. It would be more accurate to say that it spent the money on the wrong projects.

I think you are right about the rail network. It is hard to see a future for most of the intercity services the way things are going.

As far as I know numbers for all mass transport companies numbers are down - look at LUAS too. How are Swords Express numbers doing?

In relation to Dublin Bus, it's very easy to say that no improvements took place, but that's simply not true. What about the new routes that were introduced such as the 74/a, 128, 140, 145, 151?

There have been so many problems with the bus service in Dublin. Information is a key one, and I don't disagree that this is something that the company have been historically woeful in providing this. It has been the pits.

However there are clear signs of improvements that are happening on that front.
- Already the use of spider maps to depict services is much clearer.
- There is now a clear network schematic map.
- The AVLC implementation (for which funding was withheld by DoT) will result in a rollout of Real Time Passenger Information online, on street and via mobiles
- Diversions are now being maintained on the website on a much more timely basis.

The implementation of Deloitte in terms of clockface schedules, simplified routings, and more cross-city routes will be a huge improvement. There are serious shortcomings in the way timetables are presented and that needs to change - along with the eradication of route variations. Keep it simple!!

It would also be fair to say that political/regulatory interference prevented change from happening too. The DoT refused to sanction any changes on routes on the Lucan corridor while Circle Line was there (even on routes to Leixlip and Maynooth), including the use of tri-axle buses. They are very reluctant to sanction any changes to services at the Airport because of the risk of aggrieving private operators. Dublin Bus was precluded from removing/reducing many loss-making services over the years due to political intervention - our former taoiseach made representations preventing the thin air route (the 172) from being removed. Tom Kitt intervened to retain the 48a when it is carrying thin air for most of the day too. It's this sort of parochial nonsense that makes running the network much more difficult than a single route.

And (with respect to you) we now have a situation where a publicly funded asset in the form of the Port Tunnel has apparently got restricted access - that is just crazy in my view. Any operator should (once approved by the NTA) be allowed to use this national strategic asset. To my mind it's fairly obvious that there is enough room for both operations in Swords, but this sort of daftness just drives people mad.

There is a huge job to be done at DB - and I as a user do not in any way diminish it, but to say that "everything is wrong" is not the case. I do honestly believe that the changes that are currently being developed will address much of the shortcomings, but the proof will be in the delivery of this and I hope as a passenger that they get it right.

antoinolachtnai

KC61 wrote: »

As far as I know numbers for all mass transport companies numbers are down - look at LUAS too. How are Swords Express numbers doing?

The issue isn't the problem last year and the year before. The problem is that numbers didn't significantly increase between 2001 and 2005 despite massive investment and massive economic and population growth. There was little or no net modal shift and that is the core of the problem.

In relation to Dublin Bus, it's very easy to say that no improvements took place, but that's simply not true. What about the new routes that were introduced such as the 74/a, 128, 140, 145, 151?

Did I say there were no improvements? This is very little change, and far too late. And the change didn't translate into ridership.

Worthwhile passenger information projects like maps are now giving way to big advertising extravaganzas.

Deloitte report: this was a report commissioned by an outside party. This did not come from a DB initiative. DB did an expensive network review back in 2005/2006, had a plan, then did absolutely nothing about implementing it.

It's this sort of parochial nonsense that makes running the network much more difficult than a single route.

never heard Dublin Bus complain about this. I have heard them complain that too many people have cars and that people are cherrypicking, however.

And (with respect to you) we now have a situation where a publicly funded asset in the form of the Port Tunnel has apparently got restricted access - that is just crazy in my view.

Access to the Port Tunnel is restricted? Where did you get this idea?

Any operator should (once approved by the NTA) be allowed to use this national strategic asset. To my mind it's fairly obvious that there is enough room for both operations in Swords, but this sort of daftness just drives people mad.

What are you talking about? And what does it have to do with the woes of Dublin Bus? Are they my fault too, as well as the blocking of the Port Tunnel?

There is a huge job to be done at DB - and I as a user do not in any way diminish it, but to say that "everything is wrong" is not the case. I do honestly believe that the changes that are currently being developed will address much of the shortcomings, but the proof will be in the delivery of this and I hope as a passenger that they get it right.

Jam tomorrow. Never jam today. At least 600m euros worth of jam between 2001 and 2010 in fact, but very little of it for the passengers.

KC61

Antoin I am certainly not going to defend DB's lack of action in the 2000s in terms of network design/information/scheduling - it infuriated me as much as anyone else. We all know about it. But there were other forces at play too. The fact is that something is now finally being done about it, and there is going to be huge change in the next 18 months. And we will just have to wait to see if that changes anything.

Regarding the port tunnel, is the result of last week's court judgement not that the 41x will have to revert to the old routing? I did not say that the result of the court case was your fault - I just think that a judgement that apparently means the 41x cannot use the port tunnel in the future is daft in terms of the overall public interest. It (and the delay in your 2nd licence application being approved) highlights to me the ludicrous regulation process that has been in place from the DoT. It was the latter that I was trying to highlight in my post.

dowlingm

I read KC61's post with my usual interest. Here are my comments on the capital works:

Dublin-Cork commitment to 100mph is sufficient as long as UIC 60 keeps being laid and TSRs are removed. More important is the reality that we are stuck with 201s for now (100mph) and the urgent need to force IE back to the position that the KRP will be used as intended for intercity traffic. The point about Limerick Junction presumes the East Platform goes ahead.

I wouldn't spend a brown penny on Dublin-Belfast infrastructure to facilitate service north of Dundalk without a realistic expectation of improvements on the security side. Disruption has passed annoying and is now damaging, especially with the opening of the Newry bypass.

Further, I would strongly advocate approaching Translink with a proposal to separate Enterprise operations into a separate company which would co-ticket with both companies but be responsible for planning, operating and investing in expansion rolling stock. This could allow a player like DB to enter the Irish market and invest some non-taxpayer cash into the system while relieving IE of the 50% share of a service which is doomed to be beholden to the penury of one system or the other.

The Oranmore passing loop should NOT be linked to Athenry-Tuam. It should have been built before Limerick-Galway and it should not be used as a sort of justification for A-T, which should be out of the question especially since without the Claremorris part it doesn't even serve a strategic purpose in reducing Ballina-Limerick deadheading or permitting alternate freight routing.

Agree with the comments about the Sligo line, the Waterford line and the Limerick Junction line and Kerry line. It does not mention Navan, but I would suggest pushing ahead with a "Phase 2A" which would move the terminus to Dunshaughlin.

However, I have concerns about the work suggested for the Nenagh line. The reality is that the line is woefully slow and seems doomed to be, while the line passes too far from Plassey to be useful (unlike the buses it competes with) and terminates/transfers in the middle of nowhere. I'd rather spend the money on improvements from Limerick-Ennis for now and sever Killonan-Ballybrophy.

More importantly though KC61's list is comparable to an expansion plan IE would have done in the good times, and it's difficult to see a funding envelope that would encompass all of the works and routes proposed even if the Nenagh branch and the Limerick Junction-Rosslare routes were killed. The question is over what time horizon can this be staged, commensurate with keeping a core engineering team busy with IE, maximising plant and facilities and minimising skills loss.[/QUOTE]

Hungerford

Just an interesting aside. IE have revealed Dick Fearn's salary for the first time. He gets €331,565 per year because he's worth it.

Also, the attendance record of the IE board members is shocking. One guy only made three out of the ten meetings durng the year.

AlekSmart

Posted by Antoinolochtanai:

Worthwhile passenger information projects like maps are now giving way to big advertising extravaganzas.

This is indeed a valid point,but one which can be subdivided in terms of responsibility.

The current "Cheat on your car" campaign was launched at various Shopping Centres without any preparatory information being given to the front-line staff.
Thus,when promotional chipped tickets reading "Cheaters" began to flash up on ticket machine displays,some drivers called passengers back to check these as they had no idea what they werre looking at.

Surely any major marketing iniative should have,at its core,a fully briefed Point-of-Sale/Service Staff complement rather than Staff relying on external Newspaper publicity.

The other element,Passenger Information,has in somewhat typical Irish fashion been hived off at the 11th hour to a somewhat baffled Dublin City Council who are battling a cold-start to deliver some form of functionality before Christmas.

Access to the Port Tunnel is restricted? Where did you get this idea?

Well,perhaps Justice MacMahon`s judgement last week will now open the Port Tunnel to many more new Public Transport services,or perhaps not.

One thing is certain in my mind,and that is the blatent lack of any real direction in Public Transport planning evident all the way to the Top.

From Day1 the Port Access Tunnel should have been utilized by a far broader range of Express and Stage Carriage services,in fact Operators should have been required to route as many services as practicable through this edifice and to use it`s docklands portal area as a form of staging or transfer point for onward transit.

Sadly however,as is being proven by the Integrated Ticketing fiasco,there are some very adept Professional Civil Servants overseeing all of these elements,and these long time careerists are not going to get involved in anything that smacks of innovation or departing too much from the status quo... :mad:

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

However, I have concerns about the work suggested for the Nenagh line. The reality is that the line is woefully slow and seems doomed to be, while the line passes too far from Plassey to be useful (unlike the buses it competes with) and terminates/transfers in the middle of nowhere. I'd rather spend the money on improvements from Limerick-Ennis for now and sever Killonan-Ballybrophy.

The Nenagh line has been completely relaid to north of Birdhill already yet the speed limit is still 25mph. The amount of work required is minimal on this stretch of track in the greater scheme of things. In fact to relay as far as Nenagh would be relatively straighforward, and could result in a journey time of under 40 minutes to/from Limerick.

dowlingm

KC61 wrote: »

The Nenagh line has been completely relaid to north of Birdhill already yet the speed limit is still 25mph.{snip} In fact to relay as far as Nenagh would be relatively straighforward, and could result in a journey time of under 40 minutes to/from Limerick.

What speed limit could be expected from stressed CWR on that line? Would it be even 50mph? 20km of new CWR to get 40 minute timings only just keeps pace with the 12 Expressway.

Beyond that, there's still the creeping north to Roscrea (39mins vs BE's 30min) and then turfing everyone out at Ballybrophy to wait for a connection. At least the Waterford-Rosslare line has the advantage of the Barrow bridge to keep times decent vs the BE via New Ross.

It just seems to me like we can't have everything so it would be better to improve what can really compete with BE - cut Roscrea's four trains a day and build Sixmilebridge loop for its 22 trains a day.

devnull

Personally I much prefer rail to bus/coach transport in general for intercity travel, but in Ireland it is the opposite way around for me?

Why? For me the train isn't worth it. It just isn't much quicker in bus and in some cases slower, it's more expensive unless you can be really flexible with your times, and I also find it less reliable. Many of the private operators are now offering very comfortable luxury coaches with Wifi etc so for me I wouldn't even consider the train for this kind of travel.

If they got the journey times to be sufficiently better than the bus/coach then I would be more inclined to go via train, but now for my part I see very little advantage of going by train, just don't think the value for money is there.

markpb

devnull wrote: »

Personally I much prefer rail to bus/coach transport in general for intercity travel, but in Ireland it is the opposite way around for me?.

+1

Every few months I decide to give the train one more try and every time I regret it. I spent the weekend in Mayo and here's a summary of the problems:

- Staff in different Irish Rail departments gave completely conflicting answers about the validity of the Taxsaver/Loyalty discount

- The train was meant to split at Athlone for Westport and Galway but the internal displays and announcements only mentioned Galway. Half the people in the carriage thought the front (which Irish Rail call the back) thought it was going to Galway, the other half thought it was going to Mayo. There was no train host and the staff on the concourse didn't know. (It turns out people from Galway had to get a bus from Athlone but the staff in Heuston didn't know that either).

- Coming back, my gf lost her ticket and had to buy a new ticket. The website refused to sell a single ticket, with the error "You must select an outbound journey". The station staff were unable to help and she ended up paying €50 for a single ticket instead of the €25 on the website.

- The air-conditioning was set so low that most of the passengers ended up wearing coats all the way back to Dublin.

- The catering trolley which had made three or four passes on the outbound journey, made just one on the return trip and then promptly disappeared. It might bug me to pay €1.20 for a bar of chocolate but it's better than nothing.

- We sat in Athlone for 20 minutes and somewhere else for another 10 minutes because there is so much padding in the timetable.

So once again, I'll be taking the bus in future.

dowlingm

markpb wrote: »

It turns out people from Galway had to get a bus from Athlone but the staff in Heuston didn't know that either

Which staff? Booking office? Ticket checkers on the platform? That's just unacceptable because Friday bustitution from Athlone has been the norm (a mindboggling one) for months (since the December timetable maybe?).

dermo88

I am of the opinion that this recession is likely to get worse. When it gets worse, it will come to the point where subsidising competing services will come into question.

At that point, it will be asked:

What Irish railway routes can survive, compete and thrive with bus routes?

Iarnrod Eireann are currently employing a "scorched earth" policy, knowing that their days are numbered. They saw what happened in Greece last week with their railway network and shuddered at the prospect of a repeat in Ireland. They are using the scorched earth policy to ensure that a new operator cannot take over, and prove that only they had the "know how".

The network cull will initially commence with Rosslare Harbour to Limerick Junction. Limerick to Ballybrophy is dead, and has been since the 1970's.
The Ballina branch would lose its passenger service, but since it lies in the bogs of Mayo, the culchies will scream blue murder, and it gets saved. The Freight factor also helps retain it.

The line from Wexford to Rosslare Harbour will eventually lose its service and the service cut back to Wexford.

The fragmentation of lobby groups, divide and conquer tactics will all work out in favour of Irish Rail and the Department of Transport. To tackle this on the Internet, I make a radical suggestion.

An amnesty for posters who were banned should take place. It will take the knowledge of the best to tackle the lies of CIE. It won't take amateur dreamers talking Guckians scoring own goals.

Cookie_Monster

given all of that, why don't the gov just privatise it and be done with it?

EDIT: it actually was one of the companies mentioned recently in the list of thing they were thinking of privatising, wasn't it?

dermo88

Believe you me....I would love it if they did. I would also love it, if they had the Army outside Houston Station ready to shoot the strikers. Or better.....herd them into the pub so they can sing another round of "we'll keep the red flag flying" on 40 Grand a year.

But they won't until the precipice is reached and the IMF or ECB hold a metaphorical gun to the heads of the Cabinet, just as it was in 1987. Until then, we wait and see. It will be the usual "special interest" groups being pacified, with the real economy sacrificed on the altar of the banks in the name of fiscal rectidude.

popebenny16

IE are already in ****ting mode over mc carthy, the question being how much can they chuck at him to keep him satisfied and away from their door. we all know that, despite what they say, they didnt want the WRC and are fairly happy that for all intents and purposes, its dead as expansion goes.

If they get away with rosslare - and that may turn out to be the turning point in a way they did not envisage - they will mothball Nenagh next and then anything that they can get away with, so bye bye Junction to Waterford too. only the fierceness of Mayo and Kerry TD's will save their lines.

They already run three car trains as much as possible, the nationwide two hourly clockface timetable is dead, same for any short term, or indeed medium term overhaul for the enterprise.

the logic is unreal, you would think that with all the new kit floating around, with the interconnector and the need to actually dig ourselves out of the recession that IE would be one of the lynchpins of government investment and a cast iron investment bond from the EU to back it up.

But no, from going form a position two years ago of saying "we will not repeat the mistakes of the 80's" to dusting down the Wham Cd's and partying like it was 1988, we have decisions being made that save pennies and allow pounds go into the furnace. The only investment to be made in IE is building sheds to store all the spare kit that will go into storage.