Query on three lane carriageways.

Raskolnikov

Since topics on using lanes on the road are all the rage, I have a question.

Suppose you're on a three lane motorway, you're on the left hand lane, you're doing a steady 100km/ph and you've no traffic in front of you. Now, let's say the there's a line of traffic in the middle lane that's moving slower. Are you allowed to maintain your speed on the inside lane, overtaking the vehicles in the middle lane, or do you reduce your speed to that of traffic that's using the middle lane?

Max Power1

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Since topics on using lanes on the road are all the rage, I have a question.

Suppose you're on a three lane motorway, you're on the left hand lane, you're doing a steady 100km/ph and you've no traffic in front of you. Now, let's say the there's a line of traffic in the middle lane that's moving slower. Are you allowed to maintain your speed on the inside lane, overtaking the vehicles in the middle lane, or do you reduce your speed to that of traffic that's using the middle lane?

No, thats undertaking.
Slow moving traffic normally means under 30kmph.

To pass the slow traffic legally, you need to move to lane three.

And yes, this has been done to death already here.

Raskolnikov

Max Power1 wrote: »

No, thats undertaking.
Slow moving traffic normally means under 30kmph.

To pass the slow traffic legally, you need to move to lane three.

And yes, this has been done to death already here.

Yea but you can't always move out to the third lane if there's a line of traffic in the middle lane.

djimi

And therein lies the crux of the problem with pricks cruising along in the outside lanes. Unfortunately if you cant pass them on the outside then you cant pass them.

Max Power1

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Yea but you can't always move out to the third lane if there's a line of traffic in the middle lane.

hence the problem most users of this forum have with middle lane hoggers

KingIsabella

djimi wrote: »

And therein lies the crux of the problem with pricks cruising along in the outside lanes. Unfortunately if you cant pass them on the outside then you cant pass them.

You can undertake if the vehicle in front of you is turning right or the left lane is faster moving then the middle?

Max Power1

KingIsabella wrote: »

You can undertake if the vehicle in front of you is turning right or the left lane is faster moving then the middle in slow moving traffic. Slow moving is defined as under 30kmh normally.

fyp

Alun

Christ on a bike ... do we really need yet another thread on this?

Guy:Incognito

KingIsabella wrote: »

You can undertake if the vehicle in front of you is turning right or the left lane is faster moving then the middle?

Well the left lane is always going to be moving faster than the middle if your going fast enough. There would be no such thing as illegal overtaking on the left then.

djimi

KingIsabella wrote: »

You can undertake if the vehicle in front of you is turning right or the left lane is faster moving then the middle?

That only applies where traffic in all lanes is slow (ie stop start slow) and the left hand lane is moving quicker than the right hand lane, a prime example being approaching Newlands Cross at peak times, so that the left hand lane isnt sitting there waiting for the outer lanes to catch up.

At normal driving speeds this does not apply.

sesna

I drove from N3 Blanchardstown to Dun Laoighaire yesterday afternoon. I witnessed a man driving a Toyota Avensis stay in the overtaking lane for this whole distance with 7 cars behind him. There was very light traffic on the M50 and almost no traffic in the middle or left lane.

At Dun Laoighaire, as he indicated to move over, I thought he had finally seen the light after this extraordinary feat of lane hogging for over 12 miles. Unfortunately this was only because Dun Laoighaire was his exit. I am aghast at the utter ignorance of these drivers, not to mention lack of enforcement.

thats not gone well

undertaking is alowed provided the flow of traffic on the right is slower than the left lane. this applies to all roads, dual carrage-ways motorways and junctions

djimi

thats not gone well wrote: »

undertaking is alowed provided the flow of traffic on the right is slower than the left lane. this applies to all roads, dual carrage-ways motorways and junctions

Provided the flow is relatively slow moving. A line of cars in the inside doing 70mph are not permitted to pass out a line of cars in the middle/outside doing 60mph...

thats not gone well

thats not gone well wrote: »

undertaking is alowed provided the flow of traffic on the right is slower than the left lane. this applies to all roads, dual carrage-ways motorways and junctions

Slow yes, slower no

thats not gone well

djimi wrote: »

A line of cars in the inside doing 70mph are not permitted to pass out a line of cars in the middle/outside doing 60mph...

if that was the case whoever was doing 70 could be done for dangerous driving. i think a bit of common sense should be applied aswell.

Healio

If you are going 100 kph in the driving lane, and the driver in the middle is about 1 car ahead but IN THEIR LANE, when they come to their exit do you you have to yield right of way to them?

I was cruising the drving lane at 100kph, with a car virtually beside me all the way, until he decides at the last warning sign dundrum is his exit, my space ahead was slightly diminshed due to the fact this guy was blocking me in, and there was a slight queue, would it legally be wrong not to let them in? Perhaps a couple of people missing their exits may teach a lesson?

bazzachazza

The simple answer is NO. Unless traffic is crawling along i.e. you're all in first or second gear.

thats not gone well

afaik there's no rule that says you must let them into your lane/merge but it would be more likely to cause an accident.

djimi

thats not gone well wrote: »

if that was the case whoever was doing 70 could be done for dangerous driving. i think a bit of common sense should be applied aswell.

How so?

thats not gone well

djimi wrote: »

How so?

because it would be considered a dangerous manouver. generally your not expecting someone to be booting down the road on your left. the speed limit might allow it but the traffic conditions dont.

Healio

Healio wrote: »

If you are going 100 kph in the driving lane, and the driver in the middle is about 1 car ahead but IN THEIR LANE, when they come to their exit do you you have to yield right of way to them?

I was cruising the drving lane at 100kph, with a car virtually beside me all the way, until he decides at the last warning sign dundrum is his exit, my space ahead was slightly diminshed due to the fact this guy was blocking me in, and there was a slight queue, would it legally be wrong not to let them in? Perhaps a couple of people missing their exits may teach a lesson?

I don't think it's legally wrong. I think it's a polite thing to do where possible but if it would be dangerous to do so then don't let him in

edit: I assumed you meant it was dangerous to let him in because of space - if it wasn't then you really should!
We can all get confused sometimes and miss the exit!

djimi

thats not gone well wrote: »

because it would be considered a dangerous manouver. generally your not expecting someone to be booting down the road on your left. the speed limit might allow it but the traffic conditions dont.

Exactly, hence the reason why its not allowed to undertake, even if the lane youre in is moving faster than the outside lane/lanes!

djimi

Healio wrote: »

If you are going 100 kph in the driving lane, and the driver in the middle is about 1 car ahead but IN THEIR LANE, when they come to their exit do you you have to yield right of way to them?

I was cruising the drving lane at 100kph, with a car virtually beside me all the way, until he decides at the last warning sign dundrum is his exit, my space ahead was slightly diminshed due to the fact this guy was blocking me in, and there was a slight queue, would it legally be wrong not to let them in? Perhaps a couple of people missing their exits may teach a lesson?

I would back off tbh. Its not worth risking some prick taking the front of your car off just so you can try to prove a point.

thats not gone well

agreed, which is why i said a bit of common sense should be applied aswell.

"You may overtake on the left when

* You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
* You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
* Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane."
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

Healio

djimi wrote: »

I would back off tbh. Its not worth risking some prick taking the front of your car off just so you can try to prove a point.

True, just curious earlier on.

Healio

bluewolf wrote: »

edit: I assumed you meant it was dangerous to let him in because of space - if it wasn't then you really should!
We can all get confused sometimes and miss the exit!

I anticipated he was going to come off at some point, was kind of expecting it and i saw the slowish moving queue on the off ramp and decided to make space for him, as their was ample space behind me, just frustrated how following the rules gets you nowhere.

Hair Bear

Overtaking should be done in lane 3 only [or 2 if clear to do so, lane 3 being empty]. Ignorant drivers who drive and ignore all around them should be put off the road. I wish the RSA would do a few adverts on lane discipline on motor ways. The Garda traffic corps should pull these drivers off the road for a talking to!
This is a very common occurence on the M50 in particular.
Its a pleasure to drive in England, France, Spain as their drivers use the lanes properly.
Many Irish drivers assume 'if they are driving fast' they can drive in the midlle or outside lanes.

Big Nasty

I don't give a fcuk anymore if I'm undertaking. If some toothpick (read: prick) is happy to sit in the OVERTAKING lane no matter what speed he is doing be it 80, 100, 120 kmph it is NOT his job to police my speed. I will 'undertake' every time rather than sit on his sorry arse. If I'm 'done' for undetaking I will be asking why said driver is not being done for not maintaining proper lane disipline. I have tried the lane 1>2>3>2>1 route and I am only wasting my time. Educate these MUPPETS or FCUK OFF!!!

hoodie6029

I think 'slow moving' like most definitions in the Law is open to interpretation. So until some one is prosectuted for undertaking a line of muppets we are all welcome to interpret it.
In another thread recently someone raised this valid and interesting point. If I am in lane one and the car ahead of me in lane two slows down for no apparent reason must I also slow down and cause an obsruction for the cars behind me? Or should I continue at my speed and and pass on the left as the Law provides?
I prefer the latter.

KingIsabella

There definitly must be some conditions whereby "undertaking" shouldn't be entirely shunned. For example i was driving out the link today in cork and a young girl in a yaris with L PLates was driving out in the right lane doing 40mph from the clarion, for the whole time i was behind her she showed absolutely no indication regardless of the line of cars behind her that she was moving into the left lane. Most of the line of traffic behind her, including myself, "undertook" her safely in the left lane and some moved back into the right lane. By the look of it, she wasn't phased at all, and people got around her. She posed more of a risk then the "undertakers". IMO, most traffic problems are entirely circumstantial, which has its own complications.

djimi

KingIsabella wrote: »

There definitly must be some conditions whereby "undertaking" shouldn't be entirely shunned. For example i was driving out the link today in cork and a young girl in a yaris with L PLates was driving out in the right lane doing 40mph from the clarion, for the whole time i was behind her she showed absolutely no indication regardless of the line of cars behind her that she was moving into the left lane. Most of the line of traffic behind her, including myself, "undertook" her safely in the left lane and some moved back into the right lane. By the look of it, she wasn't phased at all, and people got around her. She posed more of a risk then the "undertakers". IMO, most traffic problems are entirely circumstantial, which has its own complications.

In my opinion it takes incredible will power not to undertake from time to time, especially when there is a driver in the outside lane who is driving well below the speed limit and is showing no signs of moving out of the outside lane. Im not saying its right, and its not something that I would normally condone doing, but everyones patience has a breaking point so I completely understand why it happens...

Besides, if someone is hogging the outside lane and you pass them on the inside lane, if they swing into your lane without looking and hit you then how would they prove that you were undertaking them and not that they were overtaking you and moved back in too quickly; it would essentially be your word against theirs and considering they were the ones moving in from the overtaking lane Im not sure how they would be able to prove that they were in the right? Unless crash investigators can tell from the damage who was travelling faster?

KingIsabella

Exactly, In most cases, the only deterant i can see for not undertaking in those kind of circumstances is the risk of getting caught,

cyclopath2001

hoodie6029 wrote: »

If I am in lane one and the car ahead of me in lane two slows down for no apparent reason must I also slow down and cause an obsruction for the cars behind me? Or should I continue at my speed and and pass on the left as the Law provides?
I prefer the latter.

In my experience, unless they're on the phone, drivers don't slow down for no reason. So, my first reaction would be to look for the reason. If you're very close to passing the guy, it might be best to carry on & get clear of him, but it could be that he's going to abruptly swing over into your lane because he's just realised he's going to miss his exit. If I'm going to pass anyone, I'd prefer to be passing a driver who is fully road aware. So, any sign of lack of attention, such as unexpected slowing, would make me cautious.

Mimikyu

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