Starting out in piot training

GKJK

I'm in the process of getting my ppl with a view to doing my ATPLs and CPL etc and becoming a pilot. My ideal airline has always been Aer Lingus but they arnt hiring at the moment, but sure thats not to say they wont when I'm done.

Anyhow, I dont wanna get roped into all this Ryanair short contract, sell your soul, abuse to work BS. I want a proper steady job with the prospect of progression within the airline.

I'd just like to know if anybody knows what sort of thing aer lingus look for when hiring, like do i need a few thousand hours and an a320 TR?...or would they take me with a frozen ATPL and an MEIR?

Also would applying to Aer Arran and doing some years there improve my prospects if i decided to then apply to Aer Lingus after say 5-8 years?

Any input, advice or knowledge on the subject would be much appreciated!

xflyer

Anyhow, I dont wanna get roped into all this Ryanair short contract, sell your soul, abuse to work BS. I want a proper steady job with the prospect of progression within the airline.

Don't we all?:D I'm afraid that is essentially the future of airline flying. A 'proper steady job' is harder and harder to get. So I can see why you set your sights on Aer Lingus and airlines like that. However Aer Lingus is changing fast and it's likely it's next batch of recruits will be hired under disturbingly similar contracts to Ryanair.

First off you won't get in as a cadet unless you do an integrated course preferably somwhere like OAA or FTE. The deny this and they have taken modular trained pilots. But it's a fact of life. In all probability when they do recruit again. They might well go the self funded mentoring route through the above schools. I'm guessing that, no hard info. But it works for other airlines.

Then there's direct entry. That's alway possible. But they apply the same standards of entry as they did to cadets in terms of tests etc and of course you revert back to FO even if you were a Captain and you seniority goes to the bottom.

Yes flying for Aer Arann does help. Aer Arann know this and know most will move on. That's why they charge for the type rating with the promise of returning the cost in several years. They know most will have left by then. Just don't tell them that at the interview assuming you get one.

It's nice to have an ambition to get into Aer Lingus. But be aware that Aer Lingus is never going back to the old way of doing things.

Once you are qualified you will be delighted to get any job flying anything. It's tough out there and it will stay tough for some years.

Cessna_Pilot

GKJK wrote: »

Anyhow, I dont wanna get roped into all this Ryanair short contract, sell your soul, abuse to work BS. I want a proper steady job with the prospect of progression within the airline.

Your knowledge of Ryanair is very poor if you think that about them!

With that attitude you are starting off on the wrong foot to start with mate.

From what I hear Aer Lingus now take the majority of their new recruits from CTC, and they are guys who have paid in excess of 100k to ultimately work for a withering airline. They took 15 of these guys for placement in the Gatwick base.

Aer Arann have just hired a few folk out of Irish modular schools, for unadvertised positions and from what I'm told, are in a holding pool to start a self funded type rating but plans to cut back and not replace leased aircraft etc make me think they won't be hiring any time soon.

Ryanair expansion will have dried up within a year and although they are actively recuiting at the moment, this will also dry up sooner than later.

I know lots of EI and FR pilots. Guess who are the happy ones;)

Note, if Aer Lingus were hiring, you would need to 21, with a fATPL and have most likely come through an integrated course such as CTC.

GKJK

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

Your knowledge of Ryanair is very poor if you think that about them!

I base what I said on a conversation I had with one of the instructors at my FTO. He was hired by Ryanair, signed up on a year contract, shipped out to Bergamo(was a Kildare native), payed the 28k or so to get a TR on the 737-800, got a starting wage of 23k and was let go after a month as his wage demands were deemed too high at 23k(and that's gross pay before tax)

With that attitude you are starting off on the wrong foot to start with mate.

From what I hear Aer Lingus now take the majority of their new recruits from CTC, and they are guys who have paid in excess of 100k to ultimately work for a withering airline. They took 15 of these guys for placement in the Gatwick base.

Well I confess, both hands up to being a stubborn so and so! I'm only 19 but this has been my dream since i was 2 and saw my 1st plane. I'm in modular training as I think paying 100-130k upfront to be insanity in the current climate, plus before I started my training and was in my final year of school I shopped around schools to see who was the best etc. I looked at Oxford, PTC/Skytace(actually the same company..skytrace is a feeder after PPL..but they deny it) and NFC and a couple of american places. I found that a lot of the integrated courses were run by...well..spoofers. They couldnt answer questions I asked and kept bombarding me with marketing etc. On my assesment of them I was in no way inclined to spoon out 100k to them for (on minimum hours...assuming I didnt go over hours in training)

I spoke to a senior Aer Lingus Cpt who grew up with my dad and who was recently retired on health grounds and he told me that Aer Lingus is looking to be in a rebuilding phase at the moment ie: ride out the crash and try and rebuild the other side. His attitude was that they were hiring debt ravaged integrated pilots who they knew would work for a fair bit less just to get the loan repayments moving! He seemed to think that in the future Aer Lingus will look to hire people on the merits as they come be it intehrated or modular.

Aer Arann have just hired a few folk out of Irish modular schools, for unadvertised positions and from what I'm told, are in a holding pool to start a self funded type rating but plans to cut back and not replace leased aircraft etc make me think they won't be hiring any time soon.

I know atleast 5 instuctors hired from my flight school that are in a holding pool for Aer Arran. Not ideal I agree!

Ryanair expansion will have dried up within a year and although they are actively recuiting at the moment, this will also dry up sooner than later.

I know lots of EI and FR pilots. Guess who are the happy ones;)

Well how old are these FR pilots? Because Iv met a few younger guys and they arnt happy in the slightest!

Note, if Aer Lingus were hiring, you would need to 21, with a fATPL and have most likely come through an integrated course such as CTC.

21 years of age? Well I'm 19, I'd expect to be 21 or so by the time I'm done and ready to apply wherever. and by fATPL do u mean frozen or otherwise? And as I said I'm not gonna take the gamble i this climate on forking out 100k on an integreated course!

GKJK

xflyer wrote: »

Then there's direct entry. That's alway possible. But they apply the same standards of entry as they did to cadets in terms of tests etc and of course you revert back to FO even if you were a Captain and you seniority goes to the bottom.

Yes flying for Aer Arann does help. Aer Arann know this and know most will move on. That's why they charge for the type rating with the promise of returning the cost in several years. They know most will have left by then. Just don't tell them that at the interview assuming you get one.

It's nice to have an ambition to get into Aer Lingus. But be aware that Aer Lingus is never going back to the old way of doing things.

Once you are qualified you will be delighted to get any job flying anything. It's tough out there and it will stay tough for some years.

Well atm I'm looking at getting qualified and going for a job in Aer Arran as preference and then seeing if I can move on to Aer Lingus after a couple of years. What sort of tests were applied to the old cadets? as you mentioned in the direct entry scenario? and would I be better doing a private A320 TR and then applying?

nag

Things often get mis-interpreted over a forum but the impression I'm getting is that you're too optimistic about the chances of a newly qualified fATPL pilot finding work. Jobs (in any airline) are like gold-dust these days and there are hundreds of pilots out there to fill each one that does crop up. You should be expecting not to get a job at the end of your training and anything that does come your way, no matter how small, low paid or remote, you should count yourself lucky!

GKJK wrote: »

PTC/Skytace(actually the same company..skytrace is a feeder after PPL..but they deny it)

It's well known that Skytrace and PTC are owned by the same people but I sincerely doubt they would deny that they would like to see their PPL students (who want a CPL) go to PTC.

balkanhawk

Did you apply for a Air Corps cadetship? i think they are hiring.

GKJK

balkanhawk wrote: »

Did you apply for a Air Corps cadetship? i think they are hiring.

I looked into that but when I did they werent hiring, but I'll give it another look! Cheers!

Things often get mis-interpreted over a forum but the impression I'm getting is that you're too optimistic about the chances of a newly qualified fATPL pilot finding work. Jobs (in any airline) are like gold-dust these days and there are hundreds of pilots out there to fill each one that does crop up. You should be expecting not to get a job at the end of your training and anything that does come your way, no matter how small, low paid or remote, you should count yourself lucky!

Not in the slightest! I'm well aware of that fact, but I suppose in anything if you dont go for it with a somewhat optimistic attitude then you start a few pegs lower! I would take a job no matter how small to get on the ladder and progress!

It's well known that Skytrace and PTC are owned by the same people but I sincerely doubt they would deny that they would like to see their PPL students (who want a CPL) go to PTC

When I asked them about that they denied it!
They said that they are co-owned but operate independently of eachother, contrary to what I had been told before! I was told they railroad you south! But they deny that and say they dont have any agreement to co-operate with PTC

donkey balls

Aerlingus imo will never go down the route of cadetship again or pay for someone to do their TR, when they opened up the LGW base they got pilots from the likes of Easyjet and other carriers.

as for Ryanair you sign into a five year contract with pay starting at 50e per block scheduled hour rising to 80e for a FO a captain earns about 138e per block scheduled hour not including TRE/TRI pay.

Cessna_Pilot

GKJK wrote: »

and would I be better doing a private A320 TR and then applying?

You've not even got a PPL yet. Slow down a bit:rolleyes:

rob88

i really don't think you understand how hard it is at the moment to get an airline job..and how hard it will be for the next 5 years

xflyer

What sort of tests were applied to the old cadets? as you mentioned in the direct entry scenario? and would I be better doing a private A320 TR and then applying?

Absolutely not though an Airbus rating could be useful for other airlines. By tests I mean aptitude test and psychology tests etc. The kind of assessment they used on potential cadets. I spoke to one guy who went through it while renewing my medical. It's amazing who you meet in the Mater though it be once a year, but I digress.

There is no harm in being optimistic and setting goals. Just don't set yourself up for disappointment. At this point you have barely started flying, concentrate on that first. If you want to get to your goal you need to set a very high standard. Generally your career progression will be as follows. You qualify, then you fire off CVs in all directions. If you've any sense you will explore other ways of staying flying while you wait. Stay in touch with other pilots, make sure you have a good name. It's a small world, particularly in aviation. You can be sniffy about Ryanair if you want to but you won't turn them down if they make an offer, particularly if you've been sitting around for a year or more. But Ryanair is picky about pilots too and you can't be sure about that either. I as it happens know several Ryanair pilots. They're happy enough particularly if they get the base they want which they usually do eventually.

But I see where you are coming from. If I could find a way of getting into Aer Lingus. I would take it but I'm of the old school when Aer Lingus was the only game in town. But just be careful, as the old cliche says 'A bird in hand is worth two in the bush'. Simply getting and holding on to your first job is the toughest part of being a pilot. Casually saying you'll join Aer Arann as a means of getting Aer Lingus sounds a tad naive rather than arrogant. Aer Arann turn away more recruits than they hire. I for one would be happy to see out my so called career with them. Assuming I still have one after..........................never mind!:mad:

Good luck with it anyway.

GKJK

xflyer wrote: »

Absolutely not though an Airbus rating could be useful for other airlines. By tests I mean aptitude test and psychology tests etc. The kind of assessment they used on potential cadets. I spoke to one guy who went through it while renewing my medical. It's amazing who you meet in the Mater though it be once a year, but I digress.

There is no harm in being optimistic and setting goals. Just don't set yourself up for disappointment. At this point you have barely started flying, concentrate on that first. If you want to get to your goal you need to set a very high standard. Generally your career progression will be as follows. You qualify, then you fire off CVs in all directions. If you've any sense you will explore other ways of staying flying while you wait. Stay in touch with other pilots, make sure you have a good name. It's a small world, particularly in aviation. You can be sniffy about Ryanair if you want to but you won't turn them down if they make an offer, particularly if you've been sitting around for a year or more. But Ryanair is picky about pilots too and you can't be sure about that either. I as it happens know several Ryanair pilots. They're happy enough particularly if they get the base they want which they usually do eventually.

But I see where you are coming from. If I could find a way of getting into Aer Lingus. I would take it but I'm of the old school when Aer Lingus was the only game in town. But just be careful, as the old cliche says 'A bird in hand is worth two in the bush'. Simply getting and holding on to your first job is the toughest part of being a pilot. Casually saying you'll join Aer Arann as a means of getting Aer Lingus sounds a tad naive rather than arrogant. Aer Arann turn away more recruits than they hire. I for one would be happy to see out my so called career with them. Assuming I still have one after..........................never mind!:mad:

Good luck with it anyway.

Thank you for the advice xflyer I have taken it all in and will remember it! I suppose I just feel if I have a goal that I will have something to work towards! Would it be rude to ask what airline you work or did work for? Thank you anyway!:)

You've not even got a PPL yet. Slow down a bit

Well I just want to have all my options laid out now! So I have the maximum amount of time to weigh them up!;)