Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Outrage in France at tactics used by cops to evict people from their homes

  • 03-08-2010 01:06AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k1guINoSxE

    This footage is causing quite the kerfuffle in France. The notoriously brutal CRS were sent in to remove mostly women and children from their homes as a result of an eviction order.

    Another tick in the ACAB column.


«1

Comments

  • Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Didn't like that with the baby being dragged on yer ones back, but I don't think they realised there was a baby there (and who puts a baby on their back in such a situation).


    Out from that, I don't see the issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    That video doesn't show anyone being evicted from their homes - even ITN managed to understand (and hey, it's ITN) that it's police breaking up a protest by people who have been evicted from their homes.

    While the charter expects you to do a description of the video, it's 51 seconds long so my description will do in the absence of one.

    What's your view as thread starter though? I assume you're against it by the way you've described it ("notoriously brutal CRS") but a bit more would help with an actual discussion. There's a reason the charter requests that after all...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    They are there illegally.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Didn't like that with the baby being dragged on yer ones back, but I don't think they realised there was a baby there (and who puts a baby on their back in such a situation).


    Out from that, I don't see the issue.

    And the pregnant women knocked unconscious?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    digme wrote: »
    They are there illegally.

    Where?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    And the pregnant women knocked unconscious?
    What sort of a question is that?
    She should be on a boat heading for Africa.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    Where?
    I assumed they were?France?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    sceptre wrote: »
    That video doesn't show anyone being evicted from their homes - even ITN managed to understand (and hey, it's ITN) that it's police breaking up a protest by people who have been evicted from their homes.

    While the charter expects you to do a description of the video, it's 51 seconds long so my description will do in the absence of one.

    What's your view as thread starter though? I assume you're against it by the way you've described it ("notoriously brutal CRS") but a bit more would help with an actual discussion. There's a reason the charter requests that after all...

    They had been evicted from their homes moments before.

    My view is ACAB. Another example of heavy handed, inappropriate and improper actions from the boys in blue, this time on a group of women and children who they dragged from their homes and then from the street


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    digme wrote: »
    What sort of a question is that?
    She should be on a boat heading for Africa.

    They are legal immigrants from the Ivory Coast, a former French colony, so full French citizens.

    Because they are black you assume they are illegal immigrants and should be deported?
    :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    digme wrote: »
    I assumed they were?France?

    You assumed wrong. And in a nakedly racist fashion too.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    They are legal immigrants from the Ivory Coast, a former French colony.

    Because they are black you assume they are illegal immigrants and should be deported?
    :rolleyes:
    I assumed they were illegal imiigrants,why did you post this video if they were just french people getting kicked out of their homes?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    digme wrote: »
    I assumed they were illegal imiigrants,why did you post this video if they were just french people getting kicked out of their homes?

    Read the title you clown. Its about the cops actions. You brought race into it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Whippersnapper


    digme wrote: »
    I assumed they were illegal imiigrants,why did you post this video if they were just french people getting kicked out of their homes?

    Eh? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Seeing the woman dragged along with the baby on her back is pretty shocking, but to be fair, I doubt the cops were aware that it was there. Apart from that, I didn't really see any evidence of overtly aggressive methods. These people were involved in an illegal protest, blocking common ground. Some degree of force will always be needed in a situation when moving those who refuse to budge. How else would the OP have dealt with it?

    As for the pregnant woman, there's no indication of what happened to her, so it's jumping to conlusions to assume she was assaulted, or even that she is actually unconscious in the video.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    They are legal immigrants from the Ivory Coast, a former French colony, so full French citizens.


    I'm not sure that's the case. Surely French citizenship isn't automatically bestowed on all the people of her former colonies?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Einhard wrote: »
    I'm not sure that's the case. Surely French citizenship isn't automatically bestowed on all the people of her former colonies?

    These people are French citizens. Even if they weren't, its irrelevant to the topic in hand which is the controversy raging in France over the CRS tactics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Einhard wrote: »
    Seeing the woman dragged along with the baby on her back is pretty shocking, but to be fair, I doubt the cops were aware that it was there. Apart from that, I didn't really see any evidence of overtly aggressive methods. These people were involved in an illegal protest, blocking common ground. Some degree of force will always be needed in a situation when moving those who refuse to budge. How else would the OP have dealt with it?

    As for the pregnant woman, there's no indication of what happened to her, so it's jumping to conlusions to assume she was assaulted, or even that she is actually unconscious in the video.

    Are you not jumping to a conclusion that the protest was illegal too?

    The cops were 'unaware' of a screaming child? Pull the other one.

    According to the video and the French media the lady was unconscious when the mules dragged her along. How she got into that state is up for debate, but the fact is she was then put in a van and taken to the station, not given medical help.

    As for how I would have dealt with it, I have my own theories, and none of them involve riot cops and unconcious pregnant women and kids being dragged under their mothers in pain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Well its hard to tell with the small amount that we see, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did act in a heavy handed manner, and the part where the Women is being dragged with the baby on her back is pretty appalling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    ONYD, don't call other forum members "clowns". Personal abuse isn't permitted. The only reason there isn't an infraction issued for that comment is because the one you were replying to was so idiotically idiotic that I can understand the frustration, almost justified in this case.

    digme, try doing some reading before pontificating. A little learning may be a dangerous thing but your initial comment displays that there's a new distinction between none and little, at least on this issue, and it's not a good place to be. Saying "They are there illegally." when you've obviously got no idea of what you're talking about (based on that comment) makes every post you make on this topic worth less than nothing till you go and do some reading. Heck, I'll even save you the bother of doing a google news search for "french police" (see links below), arduous as that task is.

    That's the end of the mod bit.

    /mod

    Background info: Lizzie Davies wrote a good article on this in the Guardian yesterday (Monday). Link.

    Ruadhán MacCormaic wrote an almost identical article in the Irish Times today (Tuesday). Link. Despite apparently being in Paris, almost all of it is a word shuffle and paste of the Davies article. My issues with people not making an effort beyond close to a copy & paste of the work of others belongs in the News & Media forum but either of these articles will do for background reading. The Davies one is short and concise, the MacCormaic one is, er, similar. Either will do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Are you not jumping to a conclusion that the protest was illegal too?

    Possibly, but if it wasn't, then I'd be more concerned about the breaking up of legal demonstrations than the actual tactics involved.
    The cops were 'unaware' of a screaming child? Pull the other one.

    Maybe I'm not cynical enough, but I find it hard to believe that a group of ordinary men, cops in this instance, would drag a woman along the ground knowing there was a child on her back. Given that, and the chaotic situation, it's not unreasonable to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least until there is more to go on than a 51 second video.
    According to the video and the French media the lady was unconscious when the mules dragged her along. How she got into that state is up for debate, but the fact is she was then put in a van and taken to the station, not given medical help.

    Again I'd like to see or hear more before I start judging. Did they roughly drag her along the ground knowing she unconscious? If they knew, why wouldn't they have just lifted her up?
    As for how I would have dealt with it, I have my own theories, and none of them involve riot cops and unconcious pregnant women and kids being dragged under their mothers in pain.

    I'm pretty sure the cops didn't sit around beforehand and discuss the best ways to inflict as much pain on the protesters. And I'm not sure how else one moves a person who refuses to budge without dragging them. We've seen tactics of a similar kind in Rossport and recently up North on the 12th, and after each one, people were condemning the police for their "brutality". I've no doubt that elements within forces can be brutal, and I'm not dismissing the possibility of deliberate brutality in this situation, but I'd like to know more before I judge.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Einhard,

    Google CRS. To say they have previous on this is an understatement.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭D.R cowboy


    Wish we had the french police to clean up dublin


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Those women were acting hysterically. And I sincerely doubt it was because the Police were being heavy handed: They just didn't want to disperse. Using their children as shields and squatting on the ground. I'm not exactly sure what the Police were expected to do in the situation besides allow them to continue protesting which I assume was not on the cards. Vaguely reminds me of the hysterical woman in Seattle who refused to be arrested. (And the annoying camera "narrator" thereafter) I'm not trying to turn it into a sexist issue but frankly Proportional Force is not as much a matter of contention when it involves a male suspect during an arrest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Their is no real heavy handedness going on here at all.

    Its a squat hence they have no right to live there and should be evicted.

    I would also have charges pressed against them for the endangering of a minor by resisting police involved in removing them while with a child.

    Sometimes the courts rule on a eviction notice.
    If the cops dont move you then the courts ruling means nothing.
    If the courts rules are not obeyed then the court means nothing.
    The court is the law, if the court is not respected then the law means nothing.

    The law has to mean something.

    You will find the outrage is by the few and the vocal.

    Imagine you own a house in lets say Lucan , you rent it to non nationals the rent is paid by the Goverment due to the family being unemployed. The goverment discovers the father now has a job and stops paying you the rent. Months go by you are in the poor house supporting a Mortgage with no rent (as the family are not paying) and paying for a eviction order.

    In a few months you get your order.

    The family ignore the order

    The police arrive when the family have not left on the date and due to the presence of kids and screaming women, decide they cannot move the family for you.

    You sort of screwed arent you....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    At the end of the day the cops have a job to do. Zambia put it very well above...the law has to mean something. Otherwise it's anarchy.

    I do feel sorry for the kid on the woman's back, and for the woman who was unconcious. Honestly. But if they hadn't resisted the law in the first place, it wouldn't have happened and they were stupid to attempt to fight an eviction order. The goverment can't leave kids on the street, they were obviously going to be housed, just not where they wanted. Without any bias towards their origins or citizenship etc, beggars can't be choosers...if you migrate to a country for a better life then kick up stink when the government refuse to accept you flouting their laws, then feck off back from whence you cam and that applies to everyone, regardless of race, colour, creed etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver


    I don't subscribe to the ACAB theory, however the CRS are nothing more than uniformed thugs and a completely inappropriate group to have used against a peaceful protest, they don't do peaceful well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    sdonn wrote: »
    At the end of the day the cops have a job to do. Zambia put it very well above...the law has to mean something. Otherwise it's anarchy.

    I do feel sorry for the kid on the woman's back, and for the woman who was unconcious. Honestly. But if they hadn't resisted the law in the first place, it wouldn't have happened and they were stupid to attempt to fight an eviction order. The goverment can't leave kids on the street, they were obviously going to be housed, just not where they wanted. Without any bias towards their origins or citizenship etc, beggars can't be choosers...if you migrate to a country for a better life then kick up stink when the government refuse to accept you flouting their laws, then feck off back from whence you cam and that applies to everyone, regardless of race, colour, creed etc.

    According to the media reports, no they weren't. The CRS dumped them on the street and then when they didn't move on, arrested them all.

    The background to this is that Sarkozy has been hammering home a message of being tough on 'crime and immigration' always in the same breath, as if the two are linked. Thats the context to the deployment of the shock troopers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    I don't subscribe to the ACAB theory, however the CRS are nothing more than uniformed thugs and a completely inappropriate group to have used against a peaceful protest, they don't do peaceful well.

    Recruited from school bullies apparantly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    I don't subscribe to the ACAB theory, however the CRS are nothing more than uniformed thugs and a completely inappropriate group to have used against a peaceful protest, they don't do peaceful well.
    They do it as well as these people respect property rights.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    They do it as well as these people respect property rights.

    It was where the French state put them and insisited they stay. Then the state evicts them with no warning and drags them off the street they were put in.


Advertisement