Young horse won't accept bit

Kya

Hi Guys,

In desperare need of some help
I have a 3 year old ISH gelding who we started to break about 8 weeks ago. From the outset he wasn't happy with the process especially with the bit. To start them we sectioned off a small areas of the sand arena, he went through it the first few times we tried to lunge him. We had his teeth checked and he needed to have a wolf tooth pulled, once this was done we gave him some time off. But he still wasn't happy, when lungng he will open his mouth and cross his jaw - anything but accept the bit, he's even resentful toward being worked. Convinced he still had a problem with his teeth we have had two seperate vets look at him, they couldn't see anything wrong, his teeth were rasped and the second time a sharp edged milk cap came off and we hoped this was causing the problem. But no such luck, to try and prove that the problem was with his teeth, he as worked last week with the breaking tackle and just a headcollar. Still no improvement, he even managed to flip himself over. The guy who is breaking him is very experienced and has broken horses for me in the past and even he is out of ideas. Obviously we can't back him as likely as not he'll rear and flip himself over again. In every other regard he is a gentleman, no problem to catch or shoe, he is a home bred and has never been badly treated. I have no idea how to try and improve his attitude and at this rate I'm not going to be able to keep him.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated

liah

Try him with one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitless_bridle

I recommend this type (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/BitlessBridle.jpg/800px-BitlessBridle.jpg), personally-- I used one for years with a little mare I used to ride, and honestly, she was far more responsive to it than the bit. It's an awful lot gentler, at least use it for some time until you plan to show him in which case you can either attempt again to switch to a bit or go for a stronger hackamore.

exaisle

Although there may not appear to be anything wrong with his teeth, it may be that one or more are particularly sensitive and that won't appear obvious from a visual inspection.

You say that he is otherwise a well behaved pony so I'd go with the last poster and suggest a bitless bridle...

If all else fails, you could consider a whisperer....shhh!

Let us know how you get on!

sadhbhc15

Don't know if this'll help but we always use a rubber bit for the first while when breaking them in...

Ave Sodalis

Kya wrote: »

when lungng he will open his mouth and cross his jaw - anything but accept the bit

Have you tried a flash strap? What bit are you using? Is it a breaking bit? Have you left it in his mouth for about an hour each day for a few days to get him used to the idea of having a bit in his mouth? Are you certain it fits properly, and that it is not pinching him?

There could be a number of reasons he is evading the bit.

Kya

Originally he was in a breaking bit. He would have had the bit in his mouth every day for about a week before we started to lunge him. In the last two weeks we have switched him to a loose ring snaffle with a flash noseband. He still fights as much as he can and if anything I think its making him more resentful. He was tried last week working in just the breaking tackle and a headcollar with no bit but still no improvement.

Ave Sodalis

Have you tried a roller and side reins for a week or two? No lunging or anything, just left in the stable with them. Don't shorten the side reins much but leave him for a while every day. Shorten them gradually but again, not too short. You just want as much contact as you would when riding by the end.

convert

Like sup dude said, there's lots of possible reasons as to why a horse won't accept the bit.

Obviously, the first thing to check is his teeth. If you're still worried that his teeth are causing problems, then you could also arrange for an appointment with an equine dentist, but between 2 vets they should have seen if there was a problem. Do you think that his mouth is still tender following the extraction of his wolf tooth? Even though you gave him time off, it may still be a bit sore.

As sup dude mentioned, had the horse a breaking bit in his mouth before you started to lunge him? Even before we even think about lunging or using long reins. It means that they have had time to adjust to having a bit in normal surroundings without having to think about being lead/lunged at the same time. It also gives their mouth a chance to get used to the bit before they have to start learning about accepting the bit.

It's also vital that the bit you're using fits the horse properly and isn't pinching him or banging off his teeth. It'd also be worthwhile to check that there aren't any sharp edges on the bit that could be causing the problem.

You mention that he's behaved badly when you started to lunge him and broke through the 'barriers' that you had used to section off some of the sand arena. Was this when you tried to lunge him? Were you using a bit at this stage or just a head collar? If you were using a bit, was it the first time he had a bit in his mouth? Basically, what I'm asking is do you think he reacted badly to the bit or did he object to being lunged? We can't answer that question for you, you need to think about it and make up your mind.

However, I'd be worried about the fact that he's still resenting being worked without a bit in his mouth. That he's plunging, bucking or rearing and knocking himself down isn't encouraging and suggests that there's something else going on rather than just objecting to the bit. Have you ever just lead the horse with the bit in his mouth? How did he react? If he was fine just being lead by the bit it would intimate that the bit isn't the only problem.

When the horse was being lunged, was he only being lunged in a bridle or head collar or were there other pieces of tack on him, such as a sursingle? If it's the latter, your horse could be objecting to having something going around his belly when he's trotting/cantering not to mention the fact that it could be pinching him.

If he was my horse I'd go back to basics with him again and forget about trying to lunge him or drive him in long reins. Start of by using a breaking bit and leaving it in his mouth for a short while at a time, gradually increasing how long you leave it in his mouth. One with keys is preferable as it gives him something to play with and encourages him to make his mouth.

Then start by leading him in a head collar with the bit in his mouth and see how it goes. If it goes ok, then you could try leading him off the bit with a lead with 2 clips on it, so that when you pull on the lead it will pull evenly on the bit. If he's ok with that, then you could start encouraging him to lunge by leaving him walk on a slightly longer lead around you in a small area like the stable yard - you don't need to be in an arena nor does he need to be a long way from you, just something small so that he isn't being 'lead' so-to-speak.

If he's happy with that, then you could try lunging him in just the headcollar so that he gets used to it without having to worry about the bit. Leaving the breaking bit in his mouth, but having the lead off the head collar would also give him some confidence that work does not mean having his mouth pulled.

You could also start introducing a 'proper' bit at this time, but making sure not to lunge out of it initially. And introduce it the same was as the breaking bit. Then you could gradually get him used to the idea of being lead and lunged with it.

I'd work on all of the above before introducing a sursingle or side reins when he's being lunged as it gives him only one thing to think about at a time. If too much is introduced too quickly it may cause him to revert to his current behaviour.

Only by going back to basics and taking your time will you know for sure whether the bit is the problem or if it's something else.

Just remember to take your time and not to rush him or introduce things too quickly. Introducing things slowly and step by step will help give him confidence as well as letting him get used to the 'new' step before having to deal with something new. And remember, if the new step doesn't work, go back to the previous one again for a day or two and then try again.

ETA: Didn't see your last post before I posted this. Re. the flash noseband, I'd take it off again as it's quite a severe noseband for a young horse and as you said he's starting to fight it already.

Kya

Thanks for all the replies.

Sup Dude - we've tried that, he been loose in the stable and even in a small paddock with the roller and side reins, he doesn't seem to mind this too much, working and lunging seems to be the problem.

Convert - thanks for all the helpful suggestions I'm checked the bit and its seems to be the right size, I always use the bit with the keys when starting them off. He's currently in a loose ring snaffle but he like that about as much as he liked the breaking bit. Even when lunging from a head collar with no bit he's not entirely happy. Unfortunately I'm not near him during the week but I'm tempted to let him off for a couple of months and then take some time and reintroduce him one step at a time in the hope that his attitude might improve.

Ave Sodalis

Check his mouth and tongue for any injuries, not just his teeth.

You say that you tried with just the breaking tack and no bit, are you sure it's not lunging he has a problem with? Convert has suggested this above but there may be something wrong, somewhere else. Try chasing him around the arena with no lunge line for a few minutes (with and without the bit) and see if he reacts the same way. If he does, there is a possibility that something else is hurting him. If he doesn't, you know that it is the lunging he has a problem with.

I apologise if these suggestions are starting to seem random but I am trying to rule out all possibilities.

Esroh

sup_dude wrote: »

Check his mouth and tongue for any injuries, not just his teeth.

You say that you tried with just the breaking tack and no bit, are you sure it's not lunging he has a problem with? Convert has suggested this above but there may be something wrong, somewhere else. Try chasing him around the arena with no lunge line for a few minutes (with and without the bit) and see if he reacts the same way. If he does, there is a possibility that something else is hurting him. If he doesn't, you know that it is the lunging he has a problem with.

I apologise if these suggestions are starting to seem random but I am trying to rule out all possibilities.

Op your story has a familar ring

Sup Dude may have the Key. It might be a total mental thing. He has always assocciated human interaction with good things.
Now its work and he has figured out if he creates a rumpus and throws himself about he get put away.
You say he has no problem with the tack etc when he is left alone so loose lunge him.

If he tries it on then the first time make him go forward as its the ropes that usually cause us a problem that means we have to stop and the animal gets to stop. So push him on and see what he does. Throw a few poles on the ground to keep his mind off you, make him change direction, anything to keep him quessing. Then if he relaxes you can start to structure it a bit. A horse loose can do all the transtions etc that 1 on the end of a rope does.
You can reintroduce the tack and then try the rein when you feel he is ready. It may take time but it will be worth it.