Why do you do what you do?

Just wondering, we have hundreds of new threads every month in this forum, and it got me thinking, why do people get involved in the music business?

I can see it as:
A) For the love of music
I want to have a career from music
C) I want to have fun
D) For the Sex, Drugs and Rock n'Roll lifestyle
E) The groupies

I would put up a poll, but I think my 4 suggestions would be really limited and there's other reasons I haven't thought of.
My main reason is fun. I enjoy having a beer or whatever and kicking a song around for a bit. I never really got "serious" about it as it was (cue the hippy here) about the journey for me, not the destination. I played in bands, where there was so much focus on "getting a deal/manager/something that we could live of" that it turned into something that was no longer enjoyable. I would have the defeatist attitude tbh, that 99.9% of bands won't make it. So my thoughts have always been, "we're not going to make it, so lets kick back and enjoy ourselves, and if by magic, something incredible happens and we do sign, brilliant. And we had a ton of fun on the way"

Oh and as for the love of music, that was never my main thing. I love listening to music, but the whole study of music never interested me. I blame it on my parents being punks :pac: But I did play with an amazing guitarist before who was the kind of guy who needed to dissect music and the ways in which it was done. Needing to learn something new every day jobby. It's brilliant, just never my thing.

And groupies? I'm a bassist, so no, that didn't happen half as much as it should've done!

gotBass

I just really get a kick out of playing with the band. The tunes them selves don't really matter, all about us playing well together. When we get going it just feels great. Then picking up on the audience enjoyment as we are enjoying ourselves.
It's not the adulation, because I get the same kick in rehearsals.
So I reckon it must be getting a group of people to get on the same wavelength and make something cool. --- God I'm really deep. This is most unlike me.

DamagedTrax

cause it consumes me and to not do it would be akin to suicide.

stevood

Think it changes as the years go by kind of like this:

Got a guitar to learn as looked like fun, learnt covers
started experimenting and writing own stuff
Got a band together out of curiosity,
Got a gig for a bit of fun
realised we were good and started to take it more seriously
3-4 years on and still having a cracking time but pushing towards doing it for the rest of our lives by getting a deal.

The feeling in practice when you've just completed a song and the 4 of us feel like its a masterpiece (not likely) is amazing. You go home in a great mood.
Also the feeling playing in front of 250 people singing your songs back to you cant be replaced.

GoldCobra

Should have a poll.

its A + C for me

A Primal Nut

People are always going to give the corny reasons, haha.

The love of music has to be there as a pre-requisite as you'll never get anyway without that (in real music, not talking about manufactured stuff).

I think everyone wants to excel at something and be successful and music is a good opportunity. I don't mean successful in the record deal sense, just in the sense that you are known to be good at something.

All the stuff is nice too, especially the groupies, if you are that lucky.

MilanPan!c

I do it because it's what I'm best at and I've had success in the past. I.E. I think I can do it again professionally.

I love it sure, but I wouldn't bother to have a band unless I was pursuing it seriously.

rcaz

At the moment, my motivation is a mix of loving music, loving being able to make music, and frustration at other people not trying hard enough to be interesting or original. I don't think there's any point in forming a band or writing music or anything unless you're trying to push forward somehow. I get a little annoyed when I hear guitarists who are content with playing the same old drawn out blues rock, or worshipping 'shredders' and all that junk. It's been done a million times, it takes no talent whatsoever, it doesn't contribute anything to music. Work harder and find your own sound. See the way I started ranting a bit there? That's my motivation

El Pr0n

El Pr0n wrote: »

At the moment, my motivation is a mix of loving music, loving being able to make music, and frustration at other people not trying hard enough to be interesting or original. I don't think there's any point in forming a band or writing music or anything unless you're trying to push forward somehow. I get a little annoyed when I hear guitarists who are content with playing the same old drawn out blues rock, or worshipping 'shredders' and all that junk. It's been done a million times, it takes no talent whatsoever, it doesn't contribute anything to music. Work harder and find your own sound. See the way I started ranting a bit there? That's my motivation

But then we differ completely! I see no reason myself to push boundaries, I do it purely for enjoyments sakes!

Rigsby

Papa Smut wrote: »

I see no reason myself to push boundaries, I do it purely for enjoyments sakes!

I agree. If a person enjoys playing any type of music (boundry pushing or not ) and gets a buzz from it, then what's wrong with that ?

I also, play purely for the enjoyment of it.

rcaz

Hmm... is it kind of hard to talk about this without sounding a little arrogant? I hope I'm not the only one who feels like that

I enjoy exploring with music, I guess. I don't get any enjoyment from playing old clichés... A minor pentatonic solo with a wah pedal, or whatever, that's no fun for me.

Rigsby

El Pr0n wrote: »

Hmm... is it kind of hard to talk about this without sounding a little arrogant? I hope I'm not the only one who feels like that

I enjoy exploring with music, I guess. I don't get any enjoyment from playing old clichés... A minor pentatonic solo with a wah pedal, or whatever, that's no fun for me.

If that what floats a person's boat, then good luck to them. Everyone takes and gets what they want from music. Naturally everyone is going to approach it in different ways. It's up to each individual how far they want to go with it.

Waking-Dreams

All musicians who take up playing an instrument or join a band, usually do so out of a basic desire to be liked by others. Self-expression stems from a desire to be liked, end of story. No, you're not playing music publicly because it is your “calling” in life or because it “feels right”. Like all social primates, you want to both stand out and fit in at the same time. I'm not denying that playing music can be a huge source of fun (it is fun), but why do you think we perceive it as fun?

A bit of reading up on Evolutionary Psychology would illuminate people concerning art/language/humour/music; these are things which came about in the evolution of our species as a means for displaying 'fitness indicators' for the purposes of reproductive advantage. Basic example; why is it when you play an instrument (even just in your room alone to some records) some women find that particularly attractive? Because you've displayed you have an abundance of time (a resource) to spend on learning something, among other things.

I know that children take up instruments too, but children are still social animals and have already begun to interact with others by the time they do pick up an instrument. Maybe they learned it in solitude, encouraged by a parent but I remember playing music in primary school (the tin whistle/recorder) and it was a peer group activity, as well as being a form of trait display. If you think kids aren't that conscious about trait display, then why are school uniforms so prevalent? - to stop kids from competing with one another for status with their clothes. To really get into it you'd have to read up on some of the works by David Buss, Geoffrey Miller, etc. Now, if there's people here who play an instrument in their bedroom alone, and tell no one they do, and don't play in a band or practice with other people – you are in a tiny minority of people.

I don't think less of anyone for picking up an instrument because they want to be more attractive to the opposite sex or be more liked by their peers (that's why I picked drums), because it's only human nature. And I'm not suggesting that a desire to be liked by others is the same as then strutting around with sunglasses on, acting like a rock star.

MilanPan!c

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

All musicians who take up playing an instrument or join a band, usually do so out of a basic desire to be liked by others. Self-expression stems from a desire to be liked, end of story. No, you're not playing music publicly because it is your “calling” in life or because it “feels right”. Like all social primates, you want to both stand out and fit in at the same time. I'm not denying that playing music can be a huge source of fun (it is fun), but why do you think we perceive it as fun?

A bit of reading up on Evolutionary Psychology would illuminate people concerning art/language/humour/music; these are things which came about in the evolution of our species as a means for displaying 'fitness indicators' for the purposes of reproductive advantage. Basic example; why is it when you play an instrument (even just in your room alone to some records) some women find that particularly attractive? Because you've displayed you have an abundance of time (a resource) to spend on learning something, among other things.

I know that children take up instruments too, but children are still social animals and have already begun to interact with others by the time they do pick up an instrument. Maybe they learned it in solitude, encouraged by a parent but I remember playing music in primary school (the tin whistle/recorder) and it was a peer group activity, as well as being a form of trait display. If you think kids aren't that conscious about trait display, then why are school uniforms so prevalent? - to stop kids from competing with one another for status with their clothes. To really get into it you'd have to read up on some of the works by David Buss, Geoffrey Miller, etc. Now, if there's people here who play an instrument in their bedroom alone, and tell no one they do, and don't play in a band or practice with other people – you are in a tiny minority of people.

I don't think less of anyone for picking up an instrument because they want to be more attractive to the opposite sex or be more liked by their peers (that's why I picked drums), because it's only human nature. And I'm not suggesting that a desire to be liked by others is the same as then strutting around with sunglasses on, acting like a rock star.

Honestly, most of this applies to initial reasons for people playing popular music.

But.

It certainly isn't true across the board.

Lots of musicians do it, essentially, because they have no better options, because they make money at it and see no reason to stop, even though thy could give to ****s about the sexual side or the looking cool side.

In fact, many people play wildly uncool music, because of the addreniline rush you get playing well with others.



I would def say that claiming that all people play music, simply to be liked, is pretty off the mark.

Don't get me wrong, I know what you're trying to say, but it's not nearly as universal as you're making it out to be.

In fact if you check out the book musicophilia you see many many examples of creative folks being creative for reasons that have nothing to do with sex.

Zombienosh

Its like an expression for me, an output or something. I couldn't care less about record labels, making money, people thinking im cool or being a good musician. To me being sucessful would be being able to play/write music everyday and not have to work some **** job i hate to pay the bills or something like that, i dunno. I'd glady sit and make music on my own in a room.

PMI

Its all about answer 1 if you maintain having fun, that will transend in what you do and all the other answers will follow.....

now back to the pool and girls

Waking-Dreams

You're sort of exaggerating the situation MP and being unrealistic in extremis (you'll say that about me no doubt ).

But you're taking it too literally is what I mean. I think you've misinterpreted what I said to mean that most people pick up an instrument because they have an ego that needs massaging, or they want to get laid after the gig? That's not what I said exactly.

Maybe you should read 'The Mating Mind' and tell me what you think. Look, I know that people enjoy music by themselves and some would happily play trad music down the pub with a bunch of auld fellas with scruffy beards, who have no sex appeal or interest in getting laid. My point is that the reason we humans like music at all in the first place, is because it played a pivotal function in our evolution; a vehicle for social bonding, mating, etc. Seriously, think of music back in primitive times; it was tribal drums and rhythms, it was about group solidarity and bringing people together. Fitting-in with the group and being liked by others was very important to people back then if you wanted to benefit from the group. It's why humans hate being isolated for long periods of time (why people often go insane in prison in “the hole” when kept there for very long periods of time), because in primitive times, if you were isolated and cast out from the group, you died and couldn't pass on your genes. The world we live in today is more modern but evolution doesn't work that fast. It's about 50,000 years behind.

MilanPan!c wrote: »

In fact, many people play wildly uncool music, because of the adrenaline rush you get playing well with others.

Playing with others, right. And why do we get that rush? Also, what is “uncool” music? As in non-mainstream? Or music with niche appeal for a small audience? Have you considered that such music is just another form of trait display and status seeking, just to a different audience? You can read about this in, 'The Rebel Sell: How the counterculture became consumer culture', it's very relevent today.

MilanPan!c wrote: »

I would def say that claiming that all people play music, simply to be liked, is pretty off the mark

Are you perceiving “liked” to mean becoming popular and trendy maybe? I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that humans, as a social species, do everything with other people in mind and playing an instrument is another trait that we can use in displaying our admirable qualities to one another. As I said, if certain people here play in solitude, tell no one they are a musician, and don't engage in public performances of music, they are in the minority.

And 'Musicophilia'? I'm sorry, but a book of anecdotes about human musical oddities and people with brain disorders, doesn't really hold much water compared to the myriad scientific studies which you'll find in the Evolutionary Psychology section. Just saying.

CCCP

For myself , the love of music +
For money
A+B+C = yes
Definitely not answer D and E.

DamagedTrax

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

All musicians who take up playing an instrument or join a band, usually do so out of a basic desire to be liked by others.

while i do get what you're saying i'd have to strongly disagree with the wording of that statement.

ive spent years releasing music under various anonymous guises purely because i was only interested in people hearing it and getting their own enjoyment from it. not to be liked.

and the stuff ive released that some people might know me for wasnt done for public affection but purely because i really dont know how to do anything else well and i need to put bread on my table

maybe if you'd worded it "a lot of musicians take up playing music to give people enjoyment" then i'd agree with you.

CCCP

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

All musicians who take up playing an instrument or join a band, usually do so out of a basic desire to be liked by others. Self-expression stems from a desire to be liked, end of story.

Thats complete BS my friend. I can see your reasoning but its not true of everyone.

I began playing because I was emotionally moved by music and got a kick out of playing music in my room.

I began playing in a covers band under much protest:P
but I needed the money and Ive been doing it ever since.

Waking-Dreams

Yeah... I see people are having trouble with this notion. I did expect it. I blame my way of communication but the science and philosophy backs it up. Humans are social animals and any activity we undertake, more often than not, is done with how other people will respond to us. Your brain, what you perceive as nice/fun/enjoying, evolved that way because doing those things had an evolutionary advantage.

Why does sex feel great? Because engaging in that behaviour (back then, pre-contraceptives) lead to the passing on of genes.

Why does sugary and fatty foods taste good? Because sugars and fatty foods were very scarce back on the savannah and were in high demand.

You really have to read up on some of this stuff, it's fascinating. 'The Mating Mind' by Geoffrey Miller, and 'Human Instinct' by Robert Winston are superb.

I think the rejection by some people is because there is an element of disdain towards show-offs and people who go out of their way to impress others in society, and so people are naturally concerned about not being seen as one of these egocentric people. A musician doesn't think they are indulging their ego when they confess a desire to want to play in front of others, they think “I just like playing, and if people like it, that's cool”.

I reckon what you guys might be doing, is thinking that my suggestion of a desire to be liked by others means a desire to be worshipped and showered with adulation. That's not what I'm saying. But you have to realise that so much of what you do in your life, is done with other people in mind and how they will think of you. This is true for all of us.

To really put this idea to the ultimate test, you would have to wake up one morning and be the last human alive on the planet. Only then would you not care about what kind of clothes you wore, only ones that were comfortable and kept you warm; you would not care about shaving or gelling your hair – after all, who would take notice? Yes, you might take up music to stop yourself going insane, but the faculty for enjoying music, stems from our evolutionary heritage and the benefits it brought.

Waking-Dreams

DamagedTrax wrote: »

ive spent years releasing music under various anonymous guises purely because i was only interested in people hearing it and getting their own enjoyment from it. not to be liked.

So you took no enjoyment from the fact that people liked it?

Do you see where I'm going with this? You don't have to be in the spotlight to take pleasure from your work being liked by other people - but it's still driven by a need to be liked by others.

I'm no different. I take enjoyment from the fact that people read my posts and thank me. But if I were to try and say, I just post here because I like writing and that I don't care what people think, I'd be a liar.

CCCP

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Yeah... I see people are having trouble with this notion. I did expect it. I blame my way of communication but the science and philosophy backs it up. Humans are social animals and any activity we undertake, more often than not, is done with how other people will respond to us. Your brain, what you perceive as nice/fun/enjoying, evolved that way because doing those things had an evolutionary advantage.

Why does sex feel great? Because engaging in that behaviour (back then, pre-contraceptives) lead to the passing on of genes.

Why does sugary and fatty foods taste good? Because sugars and fatty foods were very scarce back on the savannah and were in high demand.

You really have to read up on some of this stuff, it's fascinating. 'The Mating Mind' by Geoffrey Miller, and 'Human Instinct' by Robert Winston are superb.

I think the rejection by some people is because there is an element of disdain towards show-offs and people who go out of their way to impress others in society, and so people are naturally concerned about not being seen as one of these egocentric people. A musician doesn't think they are indulging their ego when they confess a desire to want to play in front of others, they think “I just like playing, and if people like it, that's cool”.

I reckon what you guys might be doing, is thinking that my suggestion of a desire to be liked by others means a desire to be worshipped and showered with adulation. That's not what I'm saying. But you have to realise that so much of what you do in your life, is done with other people in mind and how they will think of you. This is true for all of us.

To really put this idea to the ultimate test, you would have to wake up one morning and be the last human alive on the planet. Only then would you not care about what kind of clothes you wore, only ones that were comfortable and kept you warm; you would not care about shaving or gelling your hair – after all, who would take notice? Yes, you might take up music to stop yourself going insane, but the faculty for enjoying music, stems from our evolutionary heritage and the benefits it brought.

yes I understand the reasoning, and its all quite well established knowledge so your not exactly wrong. I studied Psychology myself , but at the same time, although we are all driven ultimately by these things - maslovs pyramid of needs etc. The cognitive and conscious reasons for my musical pursuits were mainly love of playing something emotionally moving and economic needs.

The underlying reasons I don't know, maybe its everything you say. but here I can only say what I know I was consciously thinking and the reasons behind my motivation to my knowledge, whatever the underlying psychological and biological .reasons were behind the scenes, who knows!

I think at different points in ones life a person can be motivated by different things.

When I was younger, 15, I was a bit of an angsty teen who liked to play music alone.
Then as I got a little older I noticed people would compliment my music and it did indeed gain me popularity and a few groupies here and there.
However I gave it up, becoming tired of the falseness of it all, until several years later I met someone who was in the covers scene and needed a lead player. I said no, for months but then money became tight and I eventually decided to give it a shot. so the motivation was different the second time round.
Since then to be honest, I have absolutely no interest in the social scene in pubs, and also in women in pubs, Im very happily married, so my motivation is purely personal now, financial and also for a little bit of a jam with my band mates. The whole crazy party pub scene is really tiring to me though, Its not my thing at all, even though I am involved in the entertainment of such places on a bi weekly basis!

At the end of each gig I pretty much want to get paid and get home. Its all rather boring and professional behind the scenes, there is absolutely no sex or drugs , although there is rock and roll max I would drink at a gig is 2 pints of beer, one in first half of show and another in second half, and that's just to loosen me up. I don't even feel it as I pump sweat at the gigs and my mind does be flying thinking of finger positions, modes , scales, improvising solos and fills, keeping time and singing and all while managing volumes on the PA. too busy for anything else! especially to be worrying if people think I'm cool or not, I really couldn't give a damn, I know I'm good and professional, or else I wouldn't be getting so many gigs.

drumdrum

I do it because I simply love music. Listening to and playing both just have the ability to take me away to a place where I can forget the world for a few hours..... I know most of us here are probably the same!
I do it because I enjoy it and if something happens with it, then great! Im not going to sit and expect something to happen, but then again neither am I going to pursue my music at the expense of other life issues.


As for the side-issue here started by our resident Freud here (thats you WD! :pac: ) I agree that the reason probably 99% of musician get in to music can STEM back to wanting social approval. I think though the issue is really how deeply you "read into" the situation.

For example, the amount of teenagers Ive taught over the years wanting to emulate their heros is insane.....seriously, if I have to teach "Smells like Teen Spirit" on the drums again Im going to take a certain leaf out of Cobains book! :pac:

I think what WD is saying is that if you look at it through their eyes, ask your self what do they see? They see (among other things!) a rockstar who is elevated among their social circles. Therefore, they reckon that by becoming a rockstar themselves, they can be elevated too, and so their wonderful music journey starts!

This is very true is pretty much all aspects of life, not just music. People want to be successful at what they do....end of story. Not only does it usually bring more money and responsibility (And sometimes fame and the opposite sex), but we also feel that we "matter" more in the grander scheme of things. And if we matter, the more we think we are likely to be known and respected above all else.

Waking-Dreams

Well put CCCP.

Of course, I realise needs change over time but just because one finds a wife and successfully reproduces (if that is the case) it doesn't then diminish our human needs. Our biological imperatives are always there, running in the background. I know some people choose to become a celibate priest or a monk up some mountain, because they claim it brings them peace and joy, which has no reproductive advantage, but these people are exercising their will over their impulses (one of the advantages of our intricate brains), but it's not 'natural' as they say. They would be in the minority of people and would possibly struggle with their desires from time to time.

Broadcasting one's personality traits seems to be at the epicentre for human interaction and this includes playing music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

These trait displays help us both make friends and alliances, as well as gaining better options to high status mates. And even if we already have a mate, these motivations just don’t go away.

However, it's quite a complex topic this evolutionary psychology business and I don't want to bring this thread off-topic.

I've said my piece. I'm in danger of repeating myself self now.

Waking-Dreams

drumdrum wrote: »

For example, the amount of teenagers Ive taught over the years wanting to emulate their heros is insane.....seriously, if I have to teach "Smells like Teen Spirit" on the drums again Im going to take a certain leaf out of Cobains book! :pac:

You have my sympathies.

I'm also reminded of people who work in musical instrument shops (I used to be one of them) who have to listen to Enter Sandman, Sweet Child or Stairway...

...often played badly too...

DamagedTrax

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

So you took no enjoyment from the fact that people liked it?

Do you see where I'm going with this? You don't have to be in the spotlight to take pleasure from your work being liked by other people - but it's still driven by a need to be liked by others.

I'm no different. I take enjoyment from the fact that people read my posts and thank me. But if I were to try and say, I just post here because I like writing and that I don't care what people think, I'd be a liar.

but you seem to be under the impression that i want listeners to like me. if that was the case i'd have used my own name. of course i want them to enjoy my music and of course i feel good when they do. but me, as a person, doesnt come into the equation (except the part of me that goes into the music).

maybe we're both talking about the same thing and ive misunderstood you?

Waking-Dreams

but you seem to be under the impression that i want listeners to like me.

But you do, just not in a literal sense like you're implying, that a desire to be liked by others means being in the spotlight.

Hence why you take a certain degree of satisfaction from providing music for people. That sense of inner fulfilment at being able to deliver something that other people enoy is driven by a need to be liked by other people. You don't have to be visible, but inside you know what they liked was made by you; you caused that feeling and derive pleasure from such.

If you really didn't care you would release said music and then not bother to read reviews or listen to any feedback. Your indifference to the thoughts of others would then be a given, but it's not because I'll bet you do care about what people say and what they write about your music; in essense, you want to be liked by people. You're just going about it in a very low-key fashion. It's perfectly human. I'm no different.

drumdrum

As I said before, we all want to be successful at what we do.....

I (mostly ....about 80%) agree with what WD is saying, but I think that opposers to his opinions should think before typing a rebutle and trace back why they do what they do. Its a little bit of a case of the chicken and the egg here.......depends how far back you are willing to trace your reasons and also if you're also willing to be 100% honest with yourself.

Me, I play music because I love doing it. I too love it when people comment on my music, beit positively or negatively.....though obviously I prefer it when its positive.

Ive been approached after gigs by people that said that they enjoyed my music or my playing. Its not like Im thinking "Oh my God! I am a GOD to these people!" or to a woman "Oh my God! She likes my music! I am SO IN!!" (if only women were that easy!!! :pac: )
But its more of a showing-off of abilities that all species do to attract a mate and or companions. For example, on a night out sporty people might wear tight clothes to show off their physique, or boast about what teams they play for etc. Others might boast about their great job and the buckets of cash they rake in.....whereas musicians like ourselves might like to show off our music.
Its not in an arrogant "look at me Im absolutely amazing!" sort of way (well I hope its not!), its just that we play to our strengths and if that strength happens to be music than so be it!

DamagedTrax

like i said then, maybe the way it was originally worded threw me a bit

yes, i have a desire to make poeple enjoy what i do. that coupled with knowing that people need to like it to buy it definitly means i want people to like my music.

im gonna guess that WD probably has more insight into the physcological aspect of it than i do.