Reaction to hazards...

reap-a-rat

Hi there, been reading threads here for a long time but this is my first one, only mu second post here after one on the unsuccessful thread:(!

This is just really bugging me. I got 3 grade twos in my test today for reaction to hazards. Now, anytime I saw pedestrains, especially with children, I would clearly slow down in case they ran out in front of me. At one stage traffic was moving slowly and a car pulled out in front of me, I had left a good bit of space anticipating that they might do that and so had loads of time to stop.

I don't know where I picked up 3 faults, if someone ahead breaked I breaked in plenty of time. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone knows how the hell you're supposed to react to these "hazards" so that you don't het faulted? I'm still so peeved !

sesna

reap-a-rat wrote: »

Hi there, been reading threads here for a long time but this is my first one, only mu second post here after one on the unsuccessful thread:(!

This is just really bugging me. I got 3 grade twos in my test today for reaction to hazards. Now, anytime I saw pedestrains, especially with children, I would clearly slow down in case they ran out in front of me. At one stage traffic was moving slowly and a car pulled out in front of me, I had left a good bit of space anticipating that they might do that and so had loads of time to stop.

I don't know where I picked up 3 faults, if someone ahead breaked I breaked in plenty of time. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone knows how the hell you're supposed to react to these "hazards" so that you don't het faulted? I'm still so peeved !

I would lightly tap the brake to make it obvious. I'm sure you're fine in reacting to hazards and if you did the test tomorrow you would get a different outcome. The driving test is a bit of a farce at times.

reap-a-rat

sesna wrote: »

I would lightly tap the brake to make it obvious. I'm sure you're fine in reacting to hazards and if you did the test tomorrow you would get a different outcome. The driving test is a bit of a farce at times.

I know, I've spent the entire evening giving out about it. My instructor heard that the inspector had givin the testers in my centre a right bollicking a few weeks back for passing too many people, and now apparently 8 in every 11 fail !

As i said earlier, 100 perfect, identical drivers could sit their tests on one day and only very few would pass, just because the RSA can make money on failures and don't want to be blamed for accidents. Its a shambles. I'm not a cocky biotch but any old fool could see I know how to drive and I'm competent behind th ewheel, and aware of hazards, and its the same for thousands of us "failures". With the exception of truly poor drivers or a poor old sod who makes a grade 3 error they wouldn't usually make, its essentially a lottery trying to pass your test :mad:

**Timbuk2**

Reaction to hazards can be many things, and it could have nothing to do with the pedestrian and car that you think it might be - often people doing the test don't notice they are making faults, otherwise they probably wouldn't make them!

The only way to reduce the reaction to hazards mark is by experience. Practice driving through towns, dealing with pedestrians and traffic. Also, read the road well ahead and anticipate the actions of road users - if this is done properly, there is very little that can take you by surprise!

DrivingMad

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Reaction to hazards can be many things, and it could have nothing to do with the pedestrian and car that you think it might be - often people doing the test don't notice they are making faults, otherwise they probably wouldn't make them!
QUOTE]

This is the examples of reasons to be marked down on reacting promptly and properly to hazards as given in the RSA Driving Fault Marking Guide...Hope it helps.
Sorry for the long post.. couldn't seem to shorten it in any way!

React Promptly and Properly to Hazards


An applicant should show awareness by reading the road and traffic situation ahead and reacting in an
appropriate manner, or a fault may be recorded for not ‘Reacting Promptly and Properly to Hazards’.

Examples of ‘React’ faults include:
(a)
Where an applicant is driving towards parked vehicles on the left, and does not move out in good time to pass them.

(b)

Where an applicant meets an oncoming vehicle which is in the process of overtaking, and the applicant does not slow or stop as necessary, to allow the oncoming vehicle to pass by.

(c)

Where an applicant’s vision is diverted down to the controls for an extended period.

(d)

Where an applicant brakes hard on an amber light when the vehicle should properly have carried on.

(e)

Where an applicant drives into, or causes, or contributes unnecessarily to a ‘bottleneck’.

(f)

Where an applicant intends to turn from a major road into a minor or narrow road, and obliges a vehicle which intends to emerge from that road to reverse out of the way.

(g)

Where an applicant is in a line of overtaking vehicles, and follows through blindly.

(h)

Where an applicant is approaching children who may be playing, or pedestrians, and does not show anticipation.

(i)

Where an applicant is approaching animals and does not show anticipation.

(j)

Where an applicant approaches traffic lights which have been green for some time, and does not show anticipation.


(k)
Where an applicant makes exaggerated use of the mirror(s) which distracts from forward observation.

(l)

Where an applicant makes exaggerated/unnecessary observations to the side or rear, which distracts from forward observation.

(m)
Where an applicant is on a slip-road, and intends to join a dual-carriageway, and stops unnecessarily.

(n)

Where an applicant splashes pedestrians with surface water.

(o)
Where an applicant is turning right and misreads the intention of another oncoming road user who is also turning right, and causes unnecessary obstruction.

(p)

Where an applicant’s forward visibility is restricted by condensation.

(q)

Where an applicant stops unnecessarily when e.g. turning left onto a slip lane by misreading the main lights.
(r)

Where an applicant has commenced to turn at traffic lights and stops unnecessarily when part way

through, on seeing the red light for the other road.

(s) Where an applicant does not react correctly to speed ramps.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Have failed twice... have been waiting almost 6 months for my test to come through again (I'll be ringing them tomorrow to find out what's going on.)

Each time I got at least one "Reaction to hazards" and had no idea why. Didn't do anything on that list anyway. :rolleyes:

tracker-man

Aliana Strong Income wrote: »

Have failed twice... have been waiting almost 6 months for my test to come through again (I'll be ringing them tomorrow to find out what's going on.)

Each time I got at least one "Reaction to hazards" and had no idea why. Didn't do anything on that list anyway. :rolleyes:

Is it possible to ask the examiner after the test where exactly you went wrong? Or are you even told at that stage whether you've passed or failed>

Leeg17

tracker-man wrote: »

Is it possible to ask the examiner after the test where exactly you went wrong? Or are you even told at that stage whether you've passed or failed>

They're bound to not discuss the results of an exam with an exam taker. Really unhelpful and I think that really needs to change. How are you supposed to learn from a tick on a page from a 45 minute drive where you went wrong?

Caliden

Leeg17 wrote: »

They're bound to not discuss the results of an exam with an exam taker. Really unhelpful and I think that really needs to change. How are you supposed to learn from a tick on a page from a 45 minute drive where you went wrong?

Really?

I was told what my grade 2's were for.
Granted, I passed my test but I wouldve thought they should tell you where the mistakes were made if you failed so that you wouldnt make them the next time.

**Timbuk2**

You'd think they should, but they don't. Even if you directly ask them, they say they are not allowed say but they tell you that your driving instructor can go over the sheet with you.

J_R

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

You'd think they should, but they don't. Even if you directly ask them, they say they are not allowed say but they tell you that your driving instructor can go over the sheet with you.

Hi,

Above no longer applies. For quite some time now the examiners have been trained to give a brief verbal feedback on the test.

However fairly strict conditions apply, in particular para 6, 7 and 8:

From Standard Procedure for Conducting Driving Tests - Verbal Feedback

Verbal Feedback


1. Before handing the Pass or Fail Certificate, and the Report Sheet, to the applicant, the tester should ask the applicant if he/she would like some brief verbal feedback on some aspects of their test.
2. Where the applicant declines the offer, the Certificate and Report Sheet should then be issued in the normal way
3. Where the applicant accepts the offer, the tester should point out that the marking system is explained in the notes on the back of the Report Sheet, and, in the case of an unsuccessful applicant, that one (or more) of the threshold points was reached during the test.
4. The tester should then deliver the feedback, based closely on the training course guidelines. The terminology to be used should begin with "An example of this type of fault would be - " The example should refer to the type of fault which was incurred, without referring to the actual fault itself, or to where it occurred on the route. However, in some exceptional cases, the tester may confirm the relevance of a particular fault, or location, if the tester is satisfied that it would be beneficial to do so. Where necessary, the applicant may be informed that further information is available in the Rules of the Road, and in the leaflet 'Preparing for your Driving Test'. The tester should avoid adopting the role of a driving-instructor.
5. Feedback need not be offered to an applicant who has passed the test, and who has incurred few, if any faults.
6. Where an applicant has incurred 9 or more separate faults, the tester should merely tell the applicant that, as can be seen on the Report Sheet, there are a number of areas where further development is needed.
7. Where more than 2 major fault aspects are marked, the tester should limit the feedback to 2/3 aspects, and tell the applicant that there are other areas where further development is needed.
8. Where the tester forms the opinion that an applicant may become aggressive, or emotionally upset, or where language difficulties may arise, the tester may decide not to offer feedback, or to curtail it, if it has commenced. Where necessary, the tester should paraphrase briefly, and conclude by saying - "I am not permitted to discuss the details of the test."
9. A typical verbal feedback session should not last any longer than 30-60 seconds.

If at the end of a test the examiner does not offer a brief verbal summary and you are within the criteria above then you or your instructor should lodge a complaint with the supervisor.

**Timbuk2**

Well I didn't know that - he said he couldn't tell me anything.

In my first test I got 12 Grade 2 faults, and 7 Grade 1 faults, mainly for progress. He said he couldn't explain to me where I picked up these faults but referred me to the info at the back and told me to talk to a driving instructor.

In my second test I got 0 Grade 2 faults, and 4 Grade 1 faults. He didn't really offer much explanation but said that both my gear faults were for changing down too late before a bend.

I'm not really too worried about it though as my driving instructor seemed to be able to determine what they were for without too much difficulty (nearly all of them were for progress so he said that I was probably being too careful during the test - thinking that was what the tester wanted. He told me to drive like I normally drive during my next test, and that solved the problem!)

Nasty_Girl

my testers have never asked me did I want to know where I went wrong coz I already knew haha!!!

As for hazards, someone told me speed bumps are hazards so if you don't slow for them it could be a mark but not sure how true that is

**Timbuk2**

With speed bumps, you want to try and avoid using the brakes to slow down before them. This is because they are supposed to reduce your speed throughout a stretch a road, and if you have to use the brakes it shows that you aren't travelling at an appropriate speed. You can just let the car slow down without using the brakes though. And unless it is a flattish speed bump, always use second gear.

J_R

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Well I didn't know that - he said he couldn't tell me anything.

In my first test I got 12 Grade 2 faults, and 7 Grade 1 faults, mainly for progress. He said he couldn't explain to me where I picked up these faults but referred me to the info at the back and told me to talk to a driving instructor.

In my second test I got 0 Grade 2 faults, and 4 Grade 1 faults. He didn't really offer much explanation but said that both my gear faults were for changing down too late before a bend.

I'm not really too worried about it though as my driving instructor seemed to be able to determine what they were for without too much difficulty (nearly all of them were for progress so he said that I was probably being too careful during the test - thinking that was what the tester wanted. He told me to drive like I normally drive during my next test, and that solved the problem!)

Hi,

That is because he was a good instructor, you had taken sufficient lessons and learned from your previous attempt.

Basically, you were ready for the test.

daveharnett

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

Above no longer applies. For quite some time now the examiners have been trained to give a brief verbal feedback on the test.

However fairly strict conditions apply, in particular para 6, 7 and 8:

Delighted to hear it. I can understand why testers don't want to go into specifics - they don't want to be pulled into a debate about every fault in the drive. Good and proper that they can now give some feedback though.

fintonagirl

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

With speed bumps, you want to try and avoid using the brakes to slow down before them. This is because they are supposed to reduce your speed throughout a stretch a road, and if you have to use the brakes it shows that you aren't travelling at an appropriate speed. You can just let the car slow down without using the brakes though. And unless it is a flattish speed bump, always use second gear.

See I am so confused now am getting done for reaction to hazards and for progress. My instructor has being getting me to gather speed between bumps and then slow down preferably by releasing accelerator than by braking, even said i should get up to 4th if i think is appropriate. i would be usually in 3rd for this, though 2nd if speed is right down. whats the point in speeding up between bumps if they are there to slow you down??

**Timbuk2**

fintonagirl wrote: »

See I am so confused now am getting done for reaction to hazards and for progress. My instructor has being getting me to gather speed between bumps and then slow down preferably by releasing accelerator than by braking, even said i should get up to 4th if i think is appropriate. i would be usually in 3rd for this, though 2nd if speed is right down. whats the point in speeding up between bumps if they are there to slow you down??

You can speed up between bumps. I realise now that my post was badly worded. What I mean is that you should slow down by just releasing the accelerator (engine braking) and not pressing the brakes - pressing the brakes shows the tester that you didn't really anticipate the hazard, by reading the road ahead.

LDC ADI 34490

reap-a-rat wrote: »

Hi there, been reading threads here for a long time but this is my first one, only mu second post here after one on the unsuccessful thread:(!

This is just really bugging me. I got 3 grade twos in my test today for reaction to hazards. Now, anytime I saw pedestrains, especially with children, I would clearly slow down in case they ran out in front of me. At one stage traffic was moving slowly and a car pulled out in front of me, I had left a good bit of space anticipating that they might do that and so had loads of time to stop.

I don't know where I picked up 3 faults, if someone ahead breaked I breaked in plenty of time. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone knows how the hell you're supposed to react to these "hazards" so that you don't het faulted? I'm still so peeved !

Hi reap-a-rat, its may have been that you picked up your Reaction To Hazards faults for "over reacting".

You mention slowing down for pedestrians incase they ran out in front of you. Did you apply brakes or did you ease of gas pedal a little? The correct reaction is to begin to decelerate and prepare to brake.

You also mention that you had loads of time to stop when the car pulled out in front of you, you may have been slowing down / stopping to early?

What you are being marked on is reacting promptly and properly to hazards. A "hazard" is anything that may cause you to change you speed or direction i.e. another road user, speed bump, pot hole, football bouncing across road etc. You must react promptly and properly by checking your interior mirror to see its safe to slow down and then decelerate and prepare to brake if necessary.

Reacting to hazards is all about anticipation, how to avoid having to react suddenly to a hazard. Unfortunately though there is a fine line between reacting and over reacting.



Could it be that you were over reacting?


Rgds,
Padraic ADI 34490

DrivingTestTips: Brian

See Here

http://www.drivingtesttips.ie/Irish-Driving-Test-Video-Tutorials.php

Look at "Understand Progress and Reaction to Hazards:" from the list it will help, and remember as stated above you can "over!" react.

MascotDec85

The phrase "Reaction to Hazards" is wrong imo

To me a reaction is something you do after a event takes place. I believe that the section should be renamed:

"Anticipation of and reaction to hazards"

DrivingTestTips: Brian

MascotDec85 wrote: »

The phrase "Reaction to Hazards" is wrong imo

To me a reaction is something you do after a event takes place. I believe that the section should be renamed:

"Anticipation of and reaction to hazards"

Yes. I know myself and many driving instructors who would say the same.

johnmcdnl

LDC ADI 34490 wrote: »

What you are being marked on is reacting promptly and properly to hazards. A "hazard" is anything that may cause you to change you speed or direction i.e. another road user, speed bump, pot hole, football bouncing across road etc. You must react promptly and properly by checking your interior mirror to see its safe to slow down and then decelerate and prepare to brake if necessary.

And what situation would be considered unsafe to break or slow down???
and what if it's not safe to break what do you do then - mill on across the speed bump because it's not safe to slow down...
this thing of checking you mirrors for absolutely everything gets to be annoying and the worst thing about the test is trying to make it obvious that your checking - but not too obvious in case you get marked for something else

half the test and checkin the mirrors is a test of your acting ability and it's just so annoying...

MascotDec85

johnmcdnl wrote: »

And what situation would be considered unsafe to break or slow down???
and what if it's not safe to break what do you do then - mill on across the speed bump because it's not safe to slow down...
this thing of checking you mirrors for absolutely everything gets to be annoying and the worst thing about the test is trying to make it obvious that your checking - but not too obvious in case you get marked for something else

half the test and checkin the mirrors is a test of your acting ability and it's just so annoying...

For example, if a dog runs out in front of you and you have traffic/other road users following behind you should not slam on the anchors. Unfortunately for Fido you should cross him.
Braking to a stop in a situation like this could cause a multi-vehicle pile up.

The reason you check your mirror regularly is to establish exactly where and how far other road users are from you to help you quickly decide the best and safest course of action if the unexpected occurs.

Just imagine syou haven't checked your centre mirror. Fido comes out, you slam on the anchors blissfully unaware there's a motorbike behind you. He them slams into the back of you and either ends up lodged in your rear window or over your roof.

It sounds far fetched but it isn't really. There's a reason behind all the observations we make whilst driving

cosmic

johnmcdnl wrote: »

this thing of checking you mirrors for absolutely everything gets to be annoying and the worst thing about the test is trying to make it obvious that your checking - but not too obvious in case you get marked for something else

half the test and checkin the mirrors is a test of your acting ability and it's just so annoying...

Wow, is this what you genuinely believe? It's quite frightening if so. Apart from being another motorist, I've been a cyclist for about 11 years now and it's people like you that cause the majority of cycling accidents/near misses. As MascotDec85 said, there's reasons we need to check our mirrors. I don't think you should even contemplate taking your test unless you finally realize this. I find your attitude absolutely shocking.

johnmcdnl

cosmic wrote: »

Wow, is this what you genuinely believe? It's quite frightening if so. Apart from being another motorist, I've been a cyclist for about 11 years now and it's people like you that cause the majority of cycling accidents/near misses. As MascotDec85 said, there's reasons we need to check our mirrors. I don't think you should even contemplate taking your test unless you finally realize this. I find your attitude absolutely shocking.

I know that you should check your mirrors but there's times when you can check your mirrors without the big swing of the head to show the examiner that your checking the mirrors...
It's the having to make it so bleeding obvious that your doing it that gets annoying - it's the I am looking at my mirrors - watch me check my mirrors - look I'm looking at my mirrors.... Fault there - too slow moving off because your spending an hour checking your mirrors..

Obviously you check your mirrors but it's trying to make it obvious without spending ages just to pass the test that's frustrating

MascotDec85 wrote: »

For example, if a dog runs out in front of you and you have traffic/other road users following behind you should not slam on the anchors. Unfortunately for Fido you should cross him.
Braking to a stop in a situation like this could cause a multi-vehicle pile up.

The reason you check your mirror regularly is to establish exactly where and how far other road users are from you to help you quickly decide the best and safest course of action if the unexpected occurs.

Just imagine syou haven't checked your centre mirror. Fido comes out, you slam on the anchors blissfully unaware there's a motorbike behind you. He them slams into the back of you and either ends up lodged in your rear window or over your roof.

It sounds far fetched but it isn't really. There's a reason behind all the observations we make whilst driving

Isn't the person behind supposed to be driving far enough behind so that in the event of the guy in front stopping that they should be able to stop too - if you run into the back of someone your always going to be wrong....

if the guy in front of you smashes the brakes on your supposed to be able to stop regardless of whether or not you'd expect them to stop... it'd be the guy on the motorbikes fault if he's driving so close behind that he can't stop...

Now I personally would run over Fido the dog more than likely if he's a wee dog or a cat or something but if Fido is a Siberian Husky or a St Bernard or some animal of a dog I'm not going to have the front of my car smashed up over it...

But if it's a child I'm slamming the brakes on regardless of what's in my mirror... Because if the guy behind crashes into me it's his fault for not observing the possibly of me having to slam the brakes on and not giving himself enough stopping room...

MascotDec85

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I know that you should check your mirrors but there's times when you can check your mirrors without the big swing of the head to show the examiner that your checking the mirrors...
It's the having to make it so bleeding obvious that your doing it that gets annoying - it's the I am looking at my mirrors - watch me check my mirrors - look I'm looking at my mirrors.... Fault there - too slow moving off because your spending an hour checking your mirrors..

Obviously you check your mirrors but it's trying to make it obvious without spending ages just to pass the test that's frustrating



Isn't the person behind supposed to be driving far enough behind so that in the event of the guy in front stopping that they should be able to stop too - if you run into the back of someone your always going to be wrong....

if the guy in front of you smashes the brakes on your supposed to be able to stop regardless of whether or not you'd expect them to stop... it'd be the guy on the motorbikes fault if he's driving so close behind that he can't stop...

Now I personally would run over Fido the dog more than likely if he's a wee dog or a cat or something but if Fido is a Siberian Husky or a St Bernard or some animal of a dog I'm not going to have the front of my car smashed up over it...

But if it's a child I'm slamming the brakes on regardless of what's in my mirror... Because if the guy behind crashes into me it's his fault for not observing the possibly of me having to slam the brakes on and not giving himself enough stopping room...

The person behind you is supposed to be travelling behind you at an appropriate distance to allow them to stop but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

johnmcdnl

MascotDec85 wrote: »

The person behind you is supposed to be travelling behind you at an appropriate distance to allow them to stop but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I'd question whether it's a wrong to stop if something runs out in front of you - after all your car isn't a bulldozer at the end of the day...

loobylou

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I know that you should check your mirrors but there's times when you can check your mirrors without the big swing of the head to show the examiner that your checking the mirrors...
It's the having to make it so bleeding obvious that your doing it that gets annoying - it's the I am looking at my mirrors - watch me check my mirrors - look I'm looking at my mirrors.... Fault there - too slow moving off because your spending an hour checking your mirrors..

Obviously you check your mirrors but it's trying to make it obvious without spending ages just to pass the test that's frustrating

What you describe there is actually a fault, ironically enough it will be marked under Reaction to Hazards.
There is no need to exagerate head movements, wear dangly earrings,etc.
The tester knows WHEN you should be doing your mirror checks, its then that he is (discreetly) watching to make sure that you do.
Do the first dozen correctly and he'll probably not even watch anymore.

LDC ADI 34490

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I know that you should check your mirrors but there's times when you can check your mirrors without the big swing of the head to show the examiner that your checking the mirrors...
It's the having to make it so bleeding obvious that your doing it that gets annoying - it's the I am looking at my mirrors - watch me check my mirrors - look I'm looking at my mirrors.... Fault there - too slow moving off because your spending an hour checking your mirrors..

Obviously you check your mirrors but it's trying to make it obvious without spending ages just to pass the test that's frustrating

Give your examiner some credit, they are trained to assess your driving skills without you having to make dramatic efforts to show you are checking your mirrors etc.

You shouldn't "act" on your driving test. This is very often one of the reasons people can end up failing. You should always try to drive as you normally would (within reason ) not driving as you think the examiner wants you to drive. "Performing" on your driving test can take you out your routine and can lead to faults not normally associated with your driving.

You are trying to prove to your examiner that you are no longer a learner a driver, so there is no need to be exaggerating your mirrors....this can actually be a fault.

johnmcdnl wrote: »

But if it's a child I'm slamming the brakes on regardless of what's in my mirror... Because if the guy behind crashes into me it's his fault for not observing the possibly of me having to slam the brakes on and not giving himself enough stopping room...

If a child runs out directly in front of you you are correct in not checking your mirrors. This is an emergency stop, very different to a reaction to a hazard. In an emergency stop you forget about your mirrors and hit your brakes as hard as you can. You want to avoid whats in front of you and hope that if anyone is behind you they do the same.

Reacting to hazards is all about anticipation. If the child runs out in front of you 100 metres down the road then you should have time to check your mirrors and slow down, stopping if necessary.

Padraic
ADI 34490