Did this case really need to go to trial?

OutlawPete

So, a woman who has had mental issues for many years and is descibed as "fragile" posts a few Gumtree ads in two other people's names.

They get the ads removed and then this woman is brought to trial in the High Court with a full jury and given One Year suspended sentence.

I'm not going to post her name here but here is the article.

Does anyone else think this is all a bit much?

With all the crap people get off with a warning for.

Violent assaults, drug possessions etc.

Maybe it's just me, but I think these people should have told to get over it and the women should have been given a warning.

She posted a couple of sex ads on Gumtree in other people's names and it's trial by jury!!

Wtf

mikom

claimed she had brought a group of people back from a night out and that they had done it.

Defence counsel, Sean Gillane SC, said she suffered from mental health issues and had to be continuously monitored by her parents, with whom she continues to live.

Does not compute........

caseyann

OutlawPete wrote: »

So, a woman who has had mental issues for many years and is descibed as "fragile" posts a few Gumtree ads in two other people's names.

They get the ads removed and then this woman is brought to trial in the High Court with a full jury and given One Year suspended sentence.

I'm not going to post her name here but here is the article.

Does anyone else think this is all a bit much?

With all the crap people get off with a warning for.

Violent assaults, drug possessions etc.

Maybe it's just me, but I think these people should have told to get over it and the women should have been given a warning.

She posted a couple of sex ads on Gumtree in other people's names and it's trial by jury!!

Wtf

And named aswell,pedos dont get named and addresses given even,its crazy.

Biggins

It could be that the trail by jury was something in fact, that was in her favour.

Take into account that a judge just usually refers to the letter of the law and at the end of the day, sentences according to the way it is written and has to be seen to do so.

A jury on the other hand however can be influenced more so by emotional/troubling non-substantiated/substantiated medical issues and thus in sympathy of her predicament, see to it that she's gets/got a lesser sentence.

So in this case, going trial by jury via the DPP might have been the better of two evils.

...Its just a thought to take into account!

OutlawPete

Biggins wrote: »

It could be that the trail by jury was something in fact, that was in her favour.

Take into account that a judge just usually refers to the letter of the law and at the end of the day, sentences according to the way it is written and has to be seen to do so.

A jury on the other hand however can be influenced more so by emotional/troubling non-substantiated/substantiated medical issues and thus in sympathy of her predicament, see to it that she's gets/got a lesser sentence.

So in this case, going trial by jury via the DPP might have been the better of two evils.

...Its just a thought to take into account!

But, did it even need to go to trial at all?

She posted some fake ads in some people's name.

Obviously she has issues.

Make her admit it and warn her that if there is another similar episode, she'll not get off so easy.

I just don't see the need to for Trial by Jury for such small matter.

Sex ads on Gumtree? So what ..

I would expect her to get less of a sentence if she hacked into their online bank account and stole a few grand.

mikemac

she was working as a temporary receptionist for Accenture in May 2006.

She said she came across the female victim’s CV on the work computer and decided to email it to herself

Temporary or permanent, that is an instant sackable offense.

Sgt Coogan said the CV appeared alongside the sexual comments and the woman's contact details on the Gumtree website. He said the CV was also found on a hard drive seized from Madden.

The female victim gave evidence that she had been working as a receptionist for Accenture for several years and kept her CV under a password in her work computer. She said she started receiving calls concerning the ad and her daughter then found it online.

She said she got 13 to 20 phone calls and five or six e-mails concerning it. She said she had never heard of Gumtree before and none of the content of the ad was true.

So her daughter gets to suspect her mother is a prostitute???

In the case, the defendant is lucky she had a jury.
As said, a judge would have applied the full force of the law and she may well be in jail right now.
She needs help from the State for her mental condition but the victim may be due compensation or at least an apology to Accenture management and HR to clear this up and not destroy someone's career and reputation over this.

heffomike54

'The court heard that Madden was “a very fragile person.”

Defence counsel, Sean Gillane SC, said she suffered from mental health issues and had to be continuously monitored by her parents, with whom she continues to live.'

Yet when she got the suspended sentence, she had the presence of mind to zip up her hood all over her face to counter the waiting media. She is continuously monitored by her parents, yet wanders out of the court solo without either parents.

Mad case, from start to finish.

Biggins

OutlawPete wrote: »

But, did it even need to go to trial at all?

Yes, for in the eyes of the law, the victims need to have legal redress too.
They have rights too and the DPP exercised the law on their behalf right and a possible case of criminality.
...For which a jury decided upon an outcome.

OutlawPete wrote: »

Sex ads on Gumtree? So what...

In a world now that every detail out there is accessible by those that wish to use it to their own advantage, such wrong details could ruin a person completely.
Especially if they wish to enter certain careers where there can be no absolute taint of misdeeds, etc.
...Besides just an individual wishing to preserve their clean family name.

doctorwu

She was offered to just go to the District Court. But she decided to go for a full Criminal Trial In the High Court to deny she had done anything. A very troubled woman.

starbelgrade

Just because someone has mental health issues, doesn't mean that they are above the law. Simple as.

Biggins

starbelgrade wrote: »

Just because someone has mental health issues, doesn't mean that they are above the law. Simple as.

Correct and its not for the DPP to become judge and jury either.
Clearly there was a case to be answered to.

Had the DPP decided to make a ruling cutting out any victims rights, there would have been an unholy stink in the law courts as well as in the media I suspect.

mikemac

OutlawPete wrote: »

Sex ads on Gumtree? So what ..

The lady works for a world wide corporation.
You bet they do background checks on staff.

What if she went for a promotion, maybe to the USA.
Her name comes up as a prostitute with a quick internet search, instantly her career is ruined so she had no option but to fight this and let the DPP do their job.

Plus her daughter found out. What about her daughter's friends? They would find this eventually as kids are wizards at computers. Poor girl was in for some serious bullying if this was found out.
If you were at school and people thought your mother was a prostitute you better believe you'd be bullied too

What about her neighbors, "no smoke with fire" or better still "mud sticks"
This suspicion could follow her for the rest of her life.

This defendant got off light
So not quite "So what...."

OutlawPete

Biggins wrote: »

Yes, for in the eyes of the law, the victims need to have legal redress too.
They have rights too and the DPP exercised the law on their behalf right and a possible case of criminality.
...For which a jury decided upon an outcome.

The world is gone nuts so.

If someone posted an ad on Gumtree saying:

"I'm OutlawPete and I want cock".

I would expect the ad to be removed, and the person given a stern warning - but brought to trial for it?

Nah, it all seems over the top to me.

We have defamation and libelous laws, we don't need criminal trials for people who dare to post fake ads, it's laughable in my view.

starbelgrade

OutlawPete wrote: »

"I'm OutlawPete and I want cock".

A/S/L please.

Biggins

OutlawPete wrote: »

The world is gone nuts so.
If someone posted an ad on Gumtree saying:
"I'm OutlawPete and I want cock".
I would expect the ad to be removed, and the person given a stern warning - but brought to trial for it?
Nah, it all seems over the top to me.

If some posted that about you some might consider that funny but if someone advertised you as a possible prostitute, would that still be funny?
Advertising something is one thing, buying and selling someone as a service via a public method is another altogether.

We have defamation and libellous laws, we don't need criminal trials for people who dare to post fake ads, it's laughable in my view

The laws were applied according to what could be tried as applicable to this case in a court of law.
Obviously the jury took everything into account including all the emotional aspects from BOTH sides too.
In this case I suspect a court case done by jury suited the woman found guilty, better.

OutlawPete

Biggins wrote: »

If some posted that about you some might consider that funny but if someone advertised you as a possible prostitute..

I would expect the same.

Remove the ad and warn the person, especially if they were not mentally to well in the first place.

If someone advertised me as a prostitute, I would not expect them to be brought to trial ffs.

Biggins wrote: »

The laws were applied according to what could be tried as applicable to this case in a court of law.
Obviously the jury took everything into account including all the emotional aspects from BOTH sides too. In this case I suspect a court case done by jury suited the woman found guilty, better.

I relaise all that, but I don't think that woman should have been brought to trial for advertising people on Gumtree.

Not unless she had a history of it and continued to do so despite warnings.

We once set up a HotOrNot account for a friend of ours - our intention was to set him up with another man, wherever he may be, and arrange a meeting between them, without our friend knowing whatsoever. We were all contemplating on chipping in on flights for whoever we found, just so it would work.

starbelgrade

Deleted User wrote: »

We once set up a HotOrNot account for a friend of ours - our intention was to set him up with another man, wherever he may be, and arrange a meeting between them, without our friend knowing whatsoever. We were all contemplating on chipping in on flights for whoever we found, just so it would work.

With friends like that...

Biggins

OutlawPete wrote: »

...If someone advertised me as a prostitute, I would not expect them to be brought to trial ffs.

...but I don't think that woman should have been brought to trial for advertising people on Gumtree.
Not unless she had a history of it and continued to do so despite warnings.

Thats fair enough and its a difference of opinion we have.
At the end of the day, the victim saw justice (via the DPP) and so as they were held up to possible disrepute via a public method, they also got legal redress via the same and publicly cleared their name.
Having it done so in public by the way is also important as later if the case had of quietly disappeared, it would have been hard for any victim to prove to a potential employer/visa officer/etc that they had been vindicated and cleared.
This public trial route also helps to prove that clearance a lot easier to any future possibilities that might have had a digging up of the past haunting prospect.

Its just a friendly difference of opinion we have.

The Highwayman

She was suffering from depression. I know people who have deperssion and they dont do things like this.
Also I wonder if it had been a man would he have a got a year suspended? I think not.
She comes across in reports as a bitter and jealous preson, who seemed to take exception to her two victims, she took the information home to do this. This shows that was premeditated and shows intent.
Posting libelous and defamatory ads like this could destroy a marriage, career or a life. The 2 victims deserved their day in court.
As for the fact that it ended up in criminal court was down to her defence or she wanted to make a point. If she was totally looney tunes then she would have been sent to the C.M.H. not court.
I hope the 2 people in question can leave this sordid affair behind them.

OutlawPete

Biggins wrote: »

Its just a friendly difference of opinion we have.

That's where you're wrong.

I'm gonna have you kidnapped and chopped up into little small pieces for disagreeing with me, that'll learn ya ..

Bottle_of_Smoke

Interesting precedent. I've made out my flatmate from last year to be a hardline Real IRA supporter from logging into his facebook and posting stuff.

He's made me out to be a gay racist. And I'm not gay.

Can we sue each other?

Doc

Just want to point out that a jury only has the power to declare someone innocent or guilty and dose not get involved in the sentencing this is up to the judge.

In fact it is more likely that someone would receive a harsher sentence from a jury trial because they would have had to plead not guilty and would have cost the court a lot more money.

Jay D

Completely deserved to be prosecuted for it.

She got away with it anyway devious cow.

Motley Crue

OutlawPete wrote: »

She posted a couple of sex ads on Gumtree in other people's names and it's trial by jury!!

Well, it's Identity Theft, which is what I'm assuming she was charged with. It's also printed word so it's libel. It could possibly or seriously ruin the good character of the person she claimed to have slept with (for example, this person's wife or children might suffer embarrassment and shock).

This case was obviously brought about as a Civil Case, I would presume, from the person whom she slandered. While it's likely she was charged with a Criminal Offence it could have been dropped, but it was most likely the person whom she slandered who took it further (and they have every right to take this kind of thing seriously), and that article doesn't specify any previous offences...maybe this wasn't the first time it happened either.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Interesting precedent. I've made out my flatmate from last year to be a hardline Real IRA supporter from logging into his facebook and posting stuff.

He's made me out to be a gay racist. And I'm not gay.

Can we sue each other?

Yes. If you believe that the material has caused you a financial or personal loss of great concern. It could have cost him a job promotion for example, and if he was told this directly, he would have grounds to sue you. And yes it is actually libel even if nothing is ever done about. So I'd be very careful whose Facebook page you mutilate.

Also, because you used the name of the IRA, he could brought up on charges of supporting OR being a member of an illegal terrorist organisation.

OutlawPete

Motley Crue wrote: »

..maybe this wasn't the first time it happened either.

If she did anything like it before, it would have been used in evidence to convict her.

If it was just a civil case then it would been damages that were been sought, not a prison sentence.

Half the reason why I think it is all a bit much is down to the media attention.

Is it really that serious an offense that it should be splashed accross the papers and be on the Six One news?

As I said, it all seems a bit much for someone posting a few fake sex ads online.