Filter arrows

corktina

happened again this morning...woman (not reading anything into that) stopped at a GREEN traffic light waiting for the green arrow to light so she can turn right....grrr

Cookie_Monster

idiots, that really annoys me.

even worse though the filter pad out of Cabinteely village has been broken for a t least a year now. means you can't get out onto the N11 when quiet without breaking the lights or going in main lane to set of its pad and then back into the filter lane :mad:

mikemac

What I hate is a driver gets a filter arrow for straight ahead but around the corner to their left is a pedestrian crossing.
You need a green light before you can left.

You walk the road, the driver swings around the corner and nearly knocks you down. And look at you like you're in the wrong so you point at your green man and then to your eyes and shake your head!

Maybe they see green and don't think!

corktina

same problem in reverse isnt it!

green means go, green arrow means go IN THAT DIRECTION

paddyland

Or the woman, who stops five yards back from the traffic light, in the filter lane, and doesn't trigger the filter arrow. Cue a long build up of traffic behind, for three long turns of the traffic light sequence without a green filter, while she doggedly sits waiting for a green arrow that will never appear. Only when people start passing her in the wrong lane, does she move forward and trigger the light...

:mad:

Cookie_Monster

corktina wrote: »

same problem in reverse isnt it!

green means go, green arrow means go IN THAT DIRECTION only

I'd just add that slight distinction more

AlekSmart

Woman (not reading anything into that) stopped at a GREEN traffic light waiting for the green arrow to light so she can turn right....grrr

I`ll give ye a better one.....

Junction of Leeson St and Appian Way (Outbound)

All traffic, straight through and turning right,on a Full Green.
No conflicting oncoming traffic,but first Right-Turning vehicle stays rooted to the spot....why ?...because Mr 530D BMW just knows there`s a Green Right Turn Arrow which will illuminate......in a second.....hmmmm...Full Green goes to Amber and...you`ve guessed it...Red.....and NO Right Turn arrow at all,at all,at all......cue 530 man then creeping forward and barging his way through the final few cars turning out of Appian Way and then virtually collecting a couple of cyclists as he engages warp-drive to fly up along Appian Way....for about 100 mtrs before having to stop again....:rolleyes:

What options are available to those treating delusion I wonder..??

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

same problem in reverse isnt it!

green means go, green arrow means go IN THAT DIRECTION

FAIL! green has always meant proceed/continue on but only if it is safe to do so!

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

FAIL! green has always meant proceed/continue on but only if it is safe to do so!

"proceed/continue on but only if it is safe to do so" = "go" in normal language

corktina

foggy_lad wrote: »

FAIL! green has always meant proceed/continue on but only if it is safe to do so!

adding the full description of the regulation adds nothing to the thread and alters the story not one tad...why bother?

Empire o de Sun

Actually the filter green does not give you an unimpeded right of way through a junction, although that is how (in practice) it is used for left and right turns, but not for straight ahead.

The purpose of the filter arrow is to give information to the driver about the direction they should proceed. This is in the Traffic Signs Manual, though that is not the actual wording, cos I can't remember it and don't have access to a copy anymore.

Lights in ireland are confusing anyway. Having a red light on with a green on at the same time underneath

corktina

the whole point here though is this person was waiting for an arrow to light up before proceding when the main green light was lit.

Michael Collins

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

...Lights in ireland are confusing anyway. Having a red light on with a green on at the same time underneath

Yes, I've noticed this recently - has it been around long?

Until I saw that recenly, I had only seen (or at least noticed) the type of filter whereby when there were two columns of traffic lights on the one pole, with one red at the top (left), usually two amber (that go on at the same time) and then green on the bottom left and a filter arrow beside it on the right.

But lately, like you say, I've seen a version with just one column of lights with an arrow on the bottom while simultaneously red lights at the top - meaning that you can turn right but cannot go straight ahead, obvious to anyone who's used to our system, but maybe not to people who arn't?

Guy:Incognito

The people I get annoyed with (as well as all the ones above) are the ones that turn as they should at a junction when they get their green light, then stop in front of the lights that are red to stop the traffic coming from the road to the rght of where they started. This happens a lot more often than I ever would have thought.

Guy:Incognito

Michael Collins wrote: »

But lately, like you say, I've seen a version with just one column of lights with an arrow on the bottom while simultaneously red lights at the top - meaning that you can turn right but cannot go straight ahead, obvious to anyone who's used to our system, but maybe not to people who arn't?

I would have thought obvious to anyone, no? I mean the arrow is pointing right, say, so that means you can go right.The fact that theres a red for everyone else is irrelevant. Your going right and have an arrow telling you to do so.

Michael Collins

Stekelly wrote: »

I would have thought obvious to anyone, no? I mean the arrow is pointing right, say, so that means you can go right.The fact that theres a red for everyone else is irrelevant. Your going right and have an arrow telling you to do so.

At one time this was obviously thought too confusing, why else would they have invented the two column version?

But yeh, it is pretty obvious really, especially compared to other systems - like America where you can go right, even when all you see is a red light.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Empire o de Sun

Stekelly wrote: »

The people I get annoyed with (as well as all the ones above) are the ones that turn as they should at a junction when they get their green light, then stop in front of the lights that are red to stop the traffic coming from the road to the rght of where they started. This happens a lot more often than I ever would have thought.

This is I believe because of the bad design and layout of traffic lights in ireland. And isn't the rule in most countries, Stop on Red, :rolleyes:

Having the secondary light at the far side of a junction is just asking for trouble and is a dumb and expensive.

It encourages people to stop as far forward as possible, blocking pedestrian crossings.

It encourages a rolling creep of cars anticipating a light change as they can see the lights for the other directions, but then the pedestrians get a green and these cars are then blocking the pedestrians.

People looking at the wrong lights instead of their own.

here is an example in germany, all the lights on the near side of the junction.



Also arrowed lights are done like so



with the red and amber showing the arrows too.

AlekSmart

The people I get annoyed with (as well as all the ones above) are the ones that turn as they should at a junction when they get their green light, then stop in front of the lights that are red to stop the traffic coming from the road to the left of where they started.

The junction of Clonliffe Road and Drumcondra Road.

Northbound Traffic turning right off Clonliffe then nailing it to the road when the drivers rheumy eye catches a glimpse of the Red signal holding Northbound Drumcondra Road traffic.......No comprehension of the concept of the Stop Line......:mad:

Stonewolf

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

People looking at the wrong lights instead of their own.

here is an example in germany, all the lights on the near side of the junction.

I'd rather not have all lights moved to the near side of the junction until we start having flashing ambers like in the UK so we can get ready to go (restart our engines, take the handbrake off etc ..), even as it is it takes some people a life age of the earth to get off the line at the lights.

Cookie_Monster

Stonewolf wrote: »

I'd rather not have all lights moved to the near side of the junction until we start having flashing ambers like in the UK so we can get ready to go (restart our engines, take the handbrake off etc ..), even as it is it takes some people a life age of the earth to get off the line at the lights.

+1

Those amber stage lights should definitely be brought in though.

corktina

the UK only have flashing ambers on pedestrian crossings and that is defined as Go if the crossing is clear.
At junctions they have a red/amber phase before green which is pretty meaningless as everyone regards it as GO anyway.

i like the red arrows on the german lights, a good idea, i bet the average irish motorist wouldnt know or care what it means though

corktina

corktina wrote: »

At junctions they have a red/amber phase before green which is pretty meaningless as everyone regards it as GO anyway.

Not at all, it gives a clear indication that the lights have changed, as in you can see the transition and go, rather than blinking and "oh sh.. they've changed!!" and flooring it before the car behind runs up you as he's seen them flip to green before you. I have seen a couple of crashes caused by that.

Empire o de Sun

We used to have the Red-Amber phase years ago, in the 80's, but they got rid of it.

Anyway lights are confusing here. Just look at Amiens Street and Talbot Street junction. There is a set of pedestrian lights on the south side of the junctioin only. Yet these lights control turning movements from Amiens Street Southbound to Talbot Street. In most countries the lights (right turn arrow) would be for the right turn after the traffic lights, and therefore be for Store Street, over 150 metres away.

Look at it here.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.351405,-6.249896&spn=0.000869,0.00284&t=k&z=19

tomasrojo

feelingstressed wrote: »

What I hate is a driver gets a filter arrow for straight ahead but around the corner to their left is a pedestrian crossing.
You need a green light before you can left.

You walk the road, the driver swings around the corner and nearly knocks you down. And look at you like you're in the wrong so you point at your green man and then to your eyes and shake your head!

Maybe they see green and don't think!

This is something I experience as a pedestrian most days. It's hard to predict whether an individual motorist is going to break the light in this way, and since they're frequently unaware they're breaking the light, they are not looking out for pedestrians when they turn.

It is dismaying to see many of these drivers are clearly not novice drivers, which means that they've spent several years at least on the road and haven't yet figured out what filter lights signify.

tomasrojo

Turning left on a straight-ahead filter mentioned on the letters page of the Irish Times today:
http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224275808764

Cookie_Monster

tomasrojo wrote: »

Turning left on a straight-ahead filter mentioned on the letters page of the Irish Times today:
http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224275808764

stupid letter. lets do the costly difficult option of re-fitting every light in the country rather than enforce the issue and teach people properly...

markpb

IrishTimes wrote:

Madam, – I might as well add my two cents to the correspondence that chides road users for their behaviour (July 26th, 28th). Why do so few motorists (perhaps the majority) not realise that when a traffic light displays a green upright arrow, vehicular traffic is not permitted to turn left? An upright arrow means “straight ahead only”, an easy concept, don’t you think?

Except sometimes, a straight-ahead arrow means left + straight ahead but no turn right. The Collins Avenue / Swords road junction is like this. Lights really should be less ambiguous, it's clear that most drivers don't understand them.

tomasrojo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

stupid letter. lets do the costly difficult option of re-fitting every light in the country rather than enforce the issue and teach people properly...

But it is a basic rule of usability (in software anyway) that if users constantly misunderstand a prompt or process, it's usually more successful to change the prompt or process than retrain the user.