2 WWE Brands WHY ?

GTR63

Why do wwe persist with having two Seperate Brands.How much worse could they make Smackdown it'd be impossible.All it has is CM Punk.I hate Rey Mysterio(for clearly exploiting Eddie),Big Show couldn't give a ****,Swagger is a Bush League Angle Tribute act,Undertaker is hardly ever on it(he must miss 8 months a year banged up), Christian will never get a push Never, McIntyre is just plain Boring,Kofi is there cause he couldn't break through the Political Raw Glass Ceiling,Kane's promos are childish drivel, does MVP still exist & if i'm meant to watch it for Matt Hardy I give up.I'm not missing much else Ziggler,
Cody Rhodes or anyone else there could get Future endeavoured for all I care.Raw's bad Roster was shown up when Nexus took on the Superstars 7 last nite.
Surely some of you have noticed this.

starviewadams

Two brands doubles the amount of oppertunities for younger talent to break through,also doubles the amount of house shows that WWE can run which means more money.

glenjamin

I don't really see what all the ranting is about. If you like wrestling then Smackdown is the show for you. If you like 2 minute matches and p!ss poor comedy segments then Raw is where it's at.

Smackdown > Raw IMO

gimmick

There is no other reason or explanation other than money.

2 brands = double the amount of house shows. Double the house shows = double the money.

It is that reason, and that reason only why the "brand extension" is here to stay.

steelcityblues

Back in 2002, you had so many 'big' names (or big egos) at the time, that creating two rosters for different shows was understandable.

Fast forward to 2010, and the only 'big' names really are Cena, Orton, HHH, Taker, Jericho, Edge and maybe Mysterio ; (NOTE: Sheamus and Swagger are yet to reach that echelon, but are the most likely to join them.) Further two big names have left this year in Shawn and Batista.

Some here would say it needs to prolong for the sake of creating new names, but it was obvious to me that the likes of Cena and Orton were being groomed early for the bigtime anyway, with or without the split.

Before the split, WWE didn't have trouble in making Angle, Benoit or Jericho reach the next level, and even Rikishi was in the main-event mix for a while too!

Personally speaking, it should have ended at least a few years ago, and I like the idea of one major champion once again!

gimmick

You have to remember that the majority of the WWE watching audience nowadays cannot remember pre brand extension. They do not care that there are 2 world champs, because it is all they know.

As long as the 2 brans bring in significantly more money than what returning to a joint brand, it will not end. Thats the long and short of it.

But yes, i do agree, one world champ etc would be far better than the diluted efforts of the last few years.

JP Liz V1

Christian will never get a push

Take that back

GTR63

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Take that back

I wish I could but Vince will never push him i'd love to know why its obvious that its not cause he joined Tna,he hated him before that so he left. He's nowhere near lowly Smackdown Main Event Scene which is a shame.I'd love to see him have a rivalry with CM Punk

JP Liz V1

GTR63 wrote: »

I wish I could but Vince will never push him i'd love to know why its obvious that its not cause he joined Tna,he hated him before that so he left. He's nowhere near lowly Smackdown Main Event Scene which is a shame.I'd love to see him have a rivalry with CM Punk

If I start ranting on it I wont stop but the WWE have the potential for one of the best feuds ever in Edge V Christian who knows it might happen down the line

As said in other posts above the two shows means more money for WWE and a push for up and coming and younger talent (SD pushs more than RAW imo)

Charisteas

It was talked about in another topic about a week ago, but with Smackdown moving to a new channel in 2 months, then they may transfer one or two big names from Raw to hopefully boost ratings, and hopefully improve a most-of-the-time dire show.

Butch Cassidy

WWF used to run two separate groups of wrestlers working different house shows in different towns/cities and sometimes on the same day. Back in say '95 you could have any combination of Undertaker, Bret, Shawn or Diesel headlining shows and not necessarily with each other. Nowadays it's much easier for them to "brand" the house shows so that when the WWF come to "your town" you know what you're getting - either RAW or Smackdown. So in a way the brand extension was nothing new per se. It definitely hampered the PPVs from 2003-2007 with very few single branded ones being really stellar.

jaykhunter

Yeah, it'll never happen due to $$$.

But I hate two brands. I hate two world titles "I'm a champion of Thursdays" really annoys me. Also the SD roster is really weak, and the RAW one could really use some freshening up. One combined roster would be great -- and the guys who aren't on the show at the moment could go onto Sunday Night Heat

I don't see NXT lasting much longer. Sooner or later WWE will run out of talent ready to be on TV in any major capacity. That said, I doubt NXT will last beyond Sept; when SmackDown moves to SyFy and NXT is canceled.

Ham'nd'egger

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

WWF used to run two separate groups of wrestlers working different house shows in different towns/cities and sometimes on the same day. Back in say '95 you could have any combination of Undertaker, Bret, Shawn or Diesel headlining shows and not necessarily with each other. Nowadays it's much easier for them to "brand" the house shows so that when the WWF come to "your town" you know what you're getting - either RAW or Smackdown. So in a way the brand extension was nothing new per se. It definitely hampered the PPVs from 2003-2007 with very few single branded ones being really stellar.

You are right, sir. Since the 80's they have always ran two shows a night along with some matinee shows; I remember one of my old Apter magazines recording the Rockers appearing three times on the one day. In fact, back in the 90's they ran a European tour that was able to muster up three shows in the one evening for about a week. Before brand extension (And possibly during it) they were running A+B shows in the US.

As a by note, Brand Extension allows them to run a top list show in both the US and overseas whilst using their "top" stars from each brand on each tour, remember that the US will always be their core market and it can't afford to be neglected with no shows for anything more than 2-3 days.

CMpunked

jaykhunter wrote: »

But I hate two brands. I hate two world titles "I'm a champion of Thursdays Fridays" -- and the guys who aren't on the show at the moment could go onto Sunday Night Heat Superstars

FYP :pac:

Butch Cassidy

They should do away with the two champions thing and just have the one champ who challenges the top guy of each show like int he old NWA territory days when Dusty, Harley and Ric Flair used to travel to each territory puting on shows with the top guy in each territory.

Not gonna happen since Triple H didn't wanna put over Brock Lesnar. Blame him, seriously, blame him for everything. He's a spa :pac:

Ridley

jaykhunter wrote: »

Yeah, it'll never happen due to $$$.

But I hate two brands. I hate two world titles "I'm a champion of Thursdays" really annoys me. Also the SD roster is really weak, and the RAW one could really use some freshening up. One combined roster would be great -- and the guys who aren't on the show at the moment could go onto Sunday Night Heat

Suppose it depends on perception. I like the brand split, didn't at the time it happened but that was because I didn't like the way the world champion had a sort of secondary fued thing going on and They went out of their way to avoid Smackdown Vs Raw for King of the Ring before killing it.

Then Lesnar ran off to Smackdown, and Triple H was just given the belt on Raw before defending it later in the night to Flair. It could have at least been open. Turns out all the Triple H title runs I don't like are with the World Heavyweight Championship.

But I don't see it as two world champions. I've always seen it as the WWF/E title being the one that mattered. Still is in a way, with the Smackdown champ being a place for those who can't quite main event Raw for whatever reasonor a test for bigger things and I find it preferable. (The tag titles are better cross brand and I think the women's titles should be unified though) Better that than the show being more creatively spent for me.

Exclamation Marc

I hate the two-brand concept, it means characters and feuds especially get feck all build time.

I remember the days where a feud would build up for 6 or 7 weeks, 2 shows a week to an epic confrontation. Now its a case that the day after a PPV the main event is announced for the next PPV and they have 3 shows to build a feud, its pathetic and has completely turned me off wrestling.

Back in the one brand day, you'd have say 30 or 40 wrestlers who have talent and good gimmicks which made tag team wrestling and lower card and mid-card feuds exciting. Also you have a larger talent pool for matches as it genuinely saw wrestlers being elevated through the lower-card to mid-card etc.
Now you have 60-70 wrestlers (many of which are incredibly bland) which seem to be divided into "top stars" and "everyone else" and every Raw/Smackdown is just the same 10 wrestlers wrestling each other on a loop at the top end, and sometimes seemingly random matches between other wrestlers. The only feuds seemingly given any thought are the top star feuds, whereas everything else has a a 2 or 3 week lifespan.

But as I said before, and its my main gripe, is that there are no long-term feuds and nearly every feud is 3 or 4 shows long with a PPV. And repeat. At least if there was one brand, you'd have 8 shows to build a feud you actually give a crap about.

Ridley

FireballPitcher wrote: »

But as I said before, and its my main gripe, is that there are no long-term feuds and nearly every feud is 3 or 4 shows long with a PPV. And repeat. At least if there was one brand, you'd have 8 shows to build a feud you actually give a crap about.

I don't think that's the fault of the brand split tee bee haytch, it's their not thinking the general audience has the attention span for it anymore...

Butch Cassidy

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Back in the one brand day, ..........

Back in the one brand day there was one 60minute Monday Night RAW show each week and 5 PPVs a year from 1993-1995 and then 12 PPVs after 1997. Then RAW went to a two hour show and then Smackdown! came along and added another two hours.

Which back in the day are you talking about? You could go further back to before MNRaw and feuds would go on for months.


One thing that you had during the 90s was the face feud with a stable. Shawn Michaels feuded with "Camp Cornette" all summer long in 1996. I do like long feuds but not boring ones drawn out. Orton and Cena seemed to feud loads last year but was it that interesting? Dunno... Another thing is the repetition of feuds like Orton/Triple H. I found that one was boring and had concluded either in 2004 or in 2008 with no need for a 'Mania match.

Exclamation Marc

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Back in the one brand day there was one 60minute Monday Night RAW show each week and 5 PPVs a year from 1993-1995 and then 12 PPVs after 1997. Then RAW went to a two hour show and then Smackdown! came along and added another two hours.

The one-brand day I mean was anything pre-2002 brand extension. The figures and numbers and screen time I'm talking about are basically between the creation of Smackdown and the brand extension.

Butch Cassidy

FireballPitcher wrote: »

The one-brand day I mean was anything pre-2002 brand extension. The figures and numbers and screen time I'm talking about are basically between the creation of Smackdown and the brand extension.

Ah yeah I agree. The TV and feuds from about 1998-2002 were great but in all aspects of the product, and not just the WWF/WWE's product but the whole of wrestling, I think that heyday is gone. It's gone just like the territory days of the 70s/80s was gone for that generation by the 90s.

I remember loving the interwoven feuds in late 2000 between Austin, Rock, Triple H, 'Taker, Kurt Angle. (Oh that other guy that "did it for The Rock" ) I wish those days would come back myself.

Exclamation Marc

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Ah yeah I agree. The TV and feuds from about 1998-2002 were great but in all aspects of the product, and not just the WWF/WWE's product but the whole of wrestling, I think that heyday is gone. It's gone just like the territory days of the 70s/80s was gone for that generation by the 90s.

I remember loving the interwoven feuds in late 2000 between Austin, Rock, Triple H, 'Taker, Kurt Angle. (Oh that other guy that "did it for The Rock" ) I wish those days would come back myself.

Well I think the "heyday" is gone, but a new heyday is waiting and there if WWE really tried hard. Now they are the #1 and are just happy staying in the safe zone, which comercially makes sense, but entertainment wise its very stale. I think if the talent were given more airtime they'd get more likeable and more interesting. You simply cannot build an interesting enough feud over 3 weeks (6 hours of your brand). Any matches I'm interested in are largely because I like the performer and his ability, I can't think of a single story I gave a crap about lately (save for the start of the NEXUS and also the Bret Hart return).

Another issue which you raised is the lack of stables. Stables were what made wrestling great. DX, Ministry, Corporation, Horsemen, nWo, Right to Censor, Los Boricuas, Hart Foundation, Heenan Family even the Radicalz. Now its just a massive pool of individuals/tag teams (only a few at that) with no connections and just endless feuds.

Syferus

?? The Nexus..?

I haven't seen a stable push like Nexus since the days of the original DX, and say what you like about it the idea of pushing a bunch of young and inexperienced wrestlers as they have is what a thousand forum threads have been lambasting them for not doing for about a decade.

Hyndsy85

Syferus wrote: »

?? The Nexus..?

I haven't seen a stable push like Nexus since the days of the original DX, and say what you like about it the idea of pushing a bunch of young and inexperienced wrestlers as they have is what a thousand forum threads have been lambasting them for not doing for about a decade.

That's not quite the same tho yet.

Wade barret is the only one from nexus that has had a match. Until they all start wrestling singles matches while part of nexus there push isnt like any of the other stables

Exclamation Marc

Syferus wrote: »

?? The Nexus..?

I haven't seen a stable push like Nexus since the days of the original DX, and say what you like about it the idea of pushing a bunch of young and inexperienced wrestlers as they have is what a thousand forum threads have been lambasting them for not doing for about a decade.

Ermm they're not being pushed anything like DX. As has been said they're pushing Barrett as "him, being backed by other guys".

I'd put money on the group eventually being broke up with Barrett staying around, and a few of the others picking up bit part roles before eventually being fired. If they were getting the DX push, they'd have a couple of them wrestling as a tag team successfully, maybe 2 or 3 others getting the singles push and Wade getting pushed to the sky, right now its just Wade. Take him out of it and you're left with 6 guys who are only useful in a group of 6.

Syferus

Syferus wrote: »

?? The Nexus..?

I haven't seen a stable push like Nexus since the days of the original DX, and say what you like about it the idea of pushing a bunch of young and inexperienced wrestlers as they have is what a thousand forum threads have been lambasting them for not doing for about a decade.

Since, sirs, not 'as big as'.
There's a difference.

Butch Cassidy

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Well I think the "heyday" is gone, but a new heyday is waiting and there if WWE really tried hard. Now they are the #1 and are just happy staying in the safe zone, which comercially makes sense, but entertainment wise its very stale. I think if the talent were given more airtime they'd get more likeable and more interesting. You simply cannot build an interesting enough feud over 3 weeks (6 hours of your brand). Any matches I'm interested in are largely because I like the performer and his ability, I can't think of a single story I gave a crap about lately (save for the start of the NEXUS and also the Bret Hart return).

Another issue which you raised is the lack of stables. Stables were what made wrestling great. DX, Ministry, Corporation, Horsemen, nWo, Right to Censor, Los Boricuas, Hart Foundation, Heenan Family even the Radicalz. Now its just a massive pool of individuals/tag teams (only a few at that) with no connections and just endless feuds.

WWF wasn't particularly good in the early-mid 90s before the competition from WCW forced them to change. Now they're no.1 so why try harder seems to be the case....


You're right about stables though. I think Legacy is the only one I can think of recently...

mulner92

I haven't watched it for a few years, used to love it in the early 200s. It was terrific then. Anybody know how regal is getting on? He was one of my favourite wrestlers

jaykhunter

mulner92 wrote: »

I haven't watched it for a few years, used to love it in the early 200s. It was terrific then. Anybody know how regal is getting on? He was one of my favourite wrestlers

He's in good shape weight-wise. Got done in for illegal substances (Growth hormone, steroids) in the 2007 Signature Scandal. Changed his attire to a cool black cloak and matching trunk (interesting tidbit, he retired his wine-trunks and gave them to Bryan Danielson, who wears the same style trunks in ROH and now in WWE)

Although he won the one-night-on-RAW KOTR 2008 tournament, these days, if he's not mentoring some useless talent, he's doing backstage comedy skits.

Exclamation Marc

jaykhunter wrote: »

(interesting tidbit, he retired his wine-trunks and gave them to Bryan Danielson, who wears the same style trunks in ROH and now in WWE)

Can you give a bit more info on this? Sounds like a great story

darragh16

Brand Extension was brought in when WWF (as it was) purchased ECW and WCW no? I thought there was just a major influx of wrestlers from these federations and they couldn't just terminate their contracts....

johnn

darragh16 wrote: »

Brand Extension was brought in when WWF (as it was) purchased ECW and WCW no? I thought there was just a major influx of wrestlers from these federations and they couldn't just terminate their contracts....

No WWE weren't obliged to sign anyone they didn't want to from those two federations, they only purchased the brands and video libraries. That's why we didn't see Sting, Goldberg, Nash etc. during the Invasion

Of the people they did sign, I think they got rid of anyone they didn't want after Team WWE won at the Survivor Series

mulner92

jaykhunter wrote: »

He's in good shape weight-wise. Got done in for illegal substances (Growth hormone, steroids) in the 2007 Signature Scandal. Changed his attire to a cool black cloak and matching trunk (interesting tidbit, he retired his wine-trunks and gave them to Bryan Danielson, who wears the same style trunks in ROH and now in WWE)

Although he won the one-night-on-RAW KOTR 2008 tournament, these days, if he's not mentoring some useless talent, he's doing backstage comedy skits.

Thanks for the update, i think i saw him doing a promo while he was kotr in 2008, he was terrific and really got the crowd going. I used to love the goodwill ambassador image and also when he with the alliance. Shame he never got a proper title run. I would love to see him as world champion but that will never happen.

jaykhunter

Couldn't find much more information on this over the net. Danielson was taken on by MCW (Memphis Championship Wrestling) in 2000-1 and was trained by William Regal (as well as HBK in the Texas Wrestling Academy); and retrospectively Regal names training Danielson (and Kendrick) as one of his most proudest achievements, heavily influencing Danielson to become a technical wrestler. Danielson even wore wine trunks/outfit as a tribute to his mentor.



When WWE came to Regal (~2008) telling him they were changing his look (see above), Regal gave Danielson his trunks (figuratively lol) as a sign of respect and confidence in him.

irish_stevo815

Sorry wrong post

jaykhunter

Back on topic (:pac:)

Hopefully with SD's demotion to SyFy and a couple of the belts being unified, we're closer to one roster. Now if we could make SD! a one hour show we'd be set

If WWE really wanted to buff up their roster they'd just wave the money wand over TNA and steal their misused talent

mulner92

They should put both rosters back together although i think there aren't as many good wrestlers as there used to be.

waltersobchak

jaykhunter wrote: »

Couldn't find much more information on this over the net. Danielson was taken on by MCW (Memphis Championship Wrestling) in 2000-1 and was trained by William Regal (as well as HBK in the Texas Wrestling Academy); and retrospectively Regal names training Danielson (and Kendrick) as one of his most proudest achievements, heavily influencing Danielson to become a technical wrestler. Danielson even wore wine trunks/outfit as a tribute to his mentor.



When WWE came to Regal (~2008) telling him they were changing his look (see above), Regal gave Danielson his trunks (figuratively lol) as a sign of respect and confidence in him.

No they're literally Regals trunks.. Regal had the new trunks made but gave them to Bryan as a thank you, after Regal personally choose Danielson to be his sparing partner after Regals injury in 2003(?)

jaykhunter

I meant he didn't literally pick up his smelly aul jocks with a pair on metal tongs and hold them up in Danielson's direction! He had (fresh, new) trunks made for Danielson ye