Ireland Sevens Team Olympics

Corsendonk

I am just throwing this one out there to see what people think. In the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympics, Sevens Rugby will be an Olympic sport. Now those of you who like me enjoy watching sevens rugby will have watched the IRB international world series this year and noticed the lack of an Irish sevens team. All the major 15man rugby nations except Ireland had teams present while minor nations such as Kenya, Portugal and Russia caused upsets and gained valuable experience of the sevens version of the game.

Surely Ireland needs to have a team competing now in the IRB sevens series for us to have a chance of a medal in 2016? I am aware that this might be a sensitive subject within the IRFU as the team would be competing under the Irish Tricolour but we have in the past had athletes from the northern protestant community compete and win medals for Ireland. Wayne McCullough comes to mind. So should Ireland have a well trained and experienced 7s team at the 2016 Olympics? Remember also that the Commonwealth nations have an added advantage in tournament play as Sevens is also a Commonwealth games sport. Anyone got any views?

Mr. Rager

Oh id love this. Rugby sevens is brilliant to watch, and this would definitely be a medal chance for Ireland.

Amazotheamazing

Don't really rate the sport much myself, beyond being good fun to play, after watching half an hour of it I just lose all interest.

There is talk that the IRFU has to enter a team into the Olympics, the IRB want it to be taken seriously so for an established nation to ignore it would be a disaster. Not sure what they will do with England, Scotland and Wales (and some people from NI) competing together in the Olympics as the UK? Would be funny to see Paddy Wallace or Ferris playing for the UK against an Irish 7's team. Course, some people would probably find a way to get upset about it.

Aren't the IRFU supposed to be putting together a contracted 7's squad, hence the uncertainty over Connacht's future?

Amazotheamazing

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Don't really rate the sport much myself, beyond being good fun to play, after watching half an hour of it I just lose all interest.

There is talk that the IRFU has to enter a team into the Olympics, the IRB want it to be taken seriously so for an established nation to ignore it would be a disaster. Not sure what they will do with England, Scotland and Wales (and some people from NI) competing together in the Olympics as the UK? Would be funny to see Paddy Wallace or Ferris playing for the UK against an Irish 7's team. Course, some people would probably find a way to get upset about it.

Aren't the IRFU supposed to be putting together a contracted 7's squad, hence the uncertainty over Connacht's future?

I doubt they would play for the uk but i also doubt they would play for Ireland and I couldnt blame them.Then again they wouldnt make the team.Wallace has no pace and ferris isnt dynamic enough,compare Elsom when he was here to Ferris.

We would struggle to field a competitive team,you cant just throw players into 7's that are good in union.

Podge_irl

Corsendonk wrote: »

while minor nations such as Kenya, Portugal and Russia caused upsets and gained valuable experience of the sevens version of the game.

Kenya aren't a minor nation at 7s, they got to the semi-finals of the last world cup!

As far as I am concerned 7s and 15s are two different sports and I would be amazed if Ireland competed in the 2016 Olympics and if we do I imagine we'll do horribly. I'd back the Kenyan 7s team to beat the best we can field because we simply don't do 7s and it's a massively different game.

ferris isnt dynamic enough

Really? Ferris is an amazing rugby player and I would certainly class him as dynamic, though the likes of Heaslip would have an advantage over him due to their handling skills which are important in 7s.

This is the problem though, we're talking about throwing 15s players into the 7s game and expecting them to be as good and it's just not going to happen.

Corsendonk

Well I do agree that sevens is now a different sport, I dont think trying to make your best 15 aside players fit into sevens is the correct answer as the mentality to play each is now totally different. Vice Versa very few of the great sevens players have ever excelled in the 15 man game in recent years. We need to pick players specifically to play 7s, so pace pace and more pace with the odd great jink.

Interesting to hear that there is a prospect of a irish sevens squad. I believe the core of this squad should be selected from the crop of players playing this weekend at the Aviva. We are talking about planning for six years ahead.


Christian Cullen and Jonah Lomu were the last two greats in my opinion to make the move from 7s to 15 but both were freaks of nature. Anyone that cares to check the great two at there 7s best check the link below from the 1996 Hong Kong Sevens, 1.42mins into is especially good from Mr Cullen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDn1CONwqKQ

Judgement Day

Sevens has about as much to do with real rugby union as 20/20 has to with cricket. Perhaps it should have its own forum?

d'Oracle

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sevens has about as much to do with real rugby union as 20/20 has to with cricket. Perhaps it should have its own forum?

20/20 is just cricket with shorter games.
Its is very close to cricket by comparison to 7s is to Rugby. [/Bad grammer]

Also I don't think anyone will field senior 15s players in the Olympics.
It makes no sense. NZ have proven the necessity of a solid 7s team to winning 7s in recent years.

Also Corsendonk, You don't think Rokocoko is great?
There are a great deal of international players around the world who played sevens before making the step up. Off the top of my head, Strettle, Lewsey, Victor Vito, Isreal Dagg, Bryan Habana. (there are more, but I can't spend all day digging up names of 7s players.)

Its actually used quite often by successful Rugby nations as a method to develop back 3 players and IMO is an area which we severly fall down on.

Corsendonk

I agree with your comment that the major nations won't use 15 man players at the Olympics, the mindset is too different. Like putting a test batsman like Michael Atherton into a 20/20 side and expect him to attack attack.

Of course Rokocoko is a very good player but I would wait for his career to be over before labelling him as great.

d'Oracle

Corsendonk wrote: »

Like putting a test batsman like Michael Atherton into a 20/20 side and expect him to attack attack.

.

I still don't agree with that analogy.
There are far fewer "test only" players than 20/20 only players.
Most of the greats who are still playing are having a storming time at 20/20.
Players like Cook and Atherton are primarily an English thing. The top test batsmen have proven to be able to bang in 20/20.

Unlike in 7s which is usually a young mans game and not something one could easily step into from 15s. The amount of players who played in 15s and went back to 7's are quite limited. Which I think we agree on.

JustinDee

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sevens has about as much to do with real rugby union as 20/20 has to with cricket

It has everything to do with "real rugby union". Extremely instrumental in the spread of the game both on an international and national level in participating countries.
In a large country like Norway where logistics play a large part in participation, Sevens (and 10s) is perfect for getting clubs from all over the country and the other two Scandinavian countries competing against each other.
In a developing sport, running a smaller squad like that in Sevens is also easier.

On a seperate note, Twenty20 is a vital income generator for the county game in England and in international with TV rights and attendance revenue.
It will eventually become the main one-day form of the game swapping places with the 50-over format and running perfectly in tandem with test cricket.

d'Oracle

JustinDee wrote: »

It has everything to do with "real rugby union". Extremely instrumental in the spread of the game both on an international and national level in participating countries.
In a large country like Norway where logistics play a large part in participation, Sevens (and 10s) is perfect for getting clubs from all over the country and the other two Scandinavian countries competing against each other.
In a developing sport, running a smaller squad like that in Sevens is also easier.

I love 7s and it really rankles me that it is still considered a "festival" sport and so many rugby fans refer to it as if its some sort of parlour game.

Also its probably played at a strong level by more countries than 15's at this stage.

Teej

I don't think we have sufficient numbers to target this properly. If we do put out a team it'll be a mixture of youths, not-quite-got-its and possibly some senior players in the twilight of their careers who participate for the olympic experience.
I think it could be valuable for development of the game if was U20s or amateurs only (similar to the soccer however allowing countries without a rugby tradition to field team without getting hammered)

Re the Northern Irish players, hockey is an all-island federation also and this never prevented it from (attempting) to participate

Digifriendly

Zechariah Proud Peanut wrote: »

I doubt they would play for the uk but i also doubt they would play for Ireland and I couldnt blame them.Then again they wouldnt make the team.Wallace has no pace and ferris isnt dynamic enough,compare Elsom when he was here to Ferris.

We would struggle to field a competitive team,you cant just throw players into 7's that are good in union.

Wouldn't players from NI have better chance of being picked for Ireland than GB and NI team as the latter would include players from England/Scotland/Wales as well? Also don't forget that there is a visually impaired athlete from Derry/Londonderry competing for Ireland at the European Athletic Championships rather than GB and NI.

Digifriendly

Digifriendly wrote: »

Wouldn't players from NI have better chance of being picked for Ireland than GB and NI team as the latter would include players from England/Scotland/Wales as well? Also don't forget that there is a visually impaired athlete from Derry/Londonderry competing for Ireland at the European Athletic Championships rather than GB and NI.

Well maybe he is catholic and considers himself Irish and not British,so of course he is going to represent Ireland.Its not unsual.

The other point is probably right.

Silly Sausage

Zechariah Proud Peanut wrote: »

I doubt they would play for the uk but i also doubt they would play for Ireland and I couldnt blame them.Then again they wouldnt make the team.Wallace has no pace and ferris isnt dynamic enough,compare Elsom when he was here to Ferris.

We would struggle to field a competitive team,you cant just throw players into 7's that are good in union.

Why wouldn't they play for an all Ireland side? They already do in the 15 man game. They are from Northern Ireland not Great Britain. And yes they wouldn't be picked.


I'd love to see an Irish side in the olympics. It is one of the few sports that we compete at a decent level and I'm sure we could grow into 7s if they start in the next 2 years on the circuit.

Silly Sausage

Silly Sausage wrote: »

Why wouldn't they play for an all Ireland side? They already do in the 15 man game. They are from Northern Ireland not Great Britain. And yes they wouldn't be picked.


I'd love to see an Irish side in the olympics. It is one of the few sports that we compete at a decent level and I'm sure we could grow into 7s if they start in the next 2 years on the circuit.

The Irish rugby team is an all Ireland thing.

For them to represent Ireland in the Olympics they would be representing the republic of Ireland,unlike the rugby they would not be representing the north at all.

I would also imagine they would have to get Irish passports etc.

d'Oracle

Teej wrote: »

I don't think we have sufficient numbers to target this properly. If we do put out a team it'll be a mixture of youths, not-quite-got-its and possibly some senior players in the twilight of their careers who participate for the olympic experience.
I think it could be valuable for development of the game if was U20s or amateurs only (similar to the soccer however allowing countries without a rugby tradition to field team without getting hammered)

Don't take this as a slight on your rugby knowledge, but do you watch much 7's?

Most of the successful 7's nations (Fiji, NZ, SA, Samoa etc) keep their 7's teams distinct from their 15 as side teams now. No-one is going to send "senior players in their twilight" out to the olympics if they are taking it seriously. Its not kinsale here, 7's is now an international sport of its own merits. Approaching it as a half arsed festival sport as it traditionally has been in Ireland, will result in embarrassment.

There are certainly players with the talents and abilities to excel at 7's in the country, we just have to get them on the circuit over the next 2 years, get them playing.

And there are a Number of countries without a rugby tradition who are doing very well at 7's. Russia and Kenya jump to mind. Infact there are more nations who are competitive at 7s than 15s
Which is all one of the reasons why I have said that 7's is such a great idea for the Olympics.

A2LUE42

d'Oracle wrote: »

Don't take this as a slight on your rugby knowledge, but do you watch much 7's?

Most of the successful 7's nations (Fiji, NZ, SA, Samoa etc) keep their 7's teams distinct from their 15 as side teams now. No-one is going to send "senior players in their twilight" out to the olympics if they are taking it seriously. Its not kinsale here, 7's is now an international sport of its own merits. Approaching it as a half arsed festival sport as it traditionally has been in Ireland, will result in embarrassment.

There are certainly players with the talents and abilities to excel at 7's in the country, we just have to get them on the circuit over the next 2 years, get them playing.

And there are a Number of countries without a rugby tradition who are doing very well at 7's. Russia and Kenya jump to mind. Infact there are more nations who are competitive at 7s than 15s
Which is all one of the reasons why I have said that 7's is such a great idea for the Olympics.

When they put a team together a while back for one tournament, they were reasonable competitive and scored 3 tries(i think) against Australia, before the Aussies had even touched the ball.

Carney, Coughlan, Jones were on the team.

d'Oracle

A2LUE42 wrote: »

When they put a team together a while back for one tournament, they were reasonable competitive and scored 3 tries(i think) against Australia, before the Aussies had even touched the ball.

Carney, Coughlan, Jones were on the team.

That's the former league Carney isn't it?
I think I saw this team on a website at one stage.
I mean if we can produce players with the pace and open field running skills of these guys, we can produce a quality 7's team.

Heroditas

The IRFU stated in their 09-10 report that funding a 7s team on the international circuit would cost about €400k per annum.

Also, the IRFU along with their equivalents from Scotland, Wales and England have formed a committee specifically to discuss the issue of players representing countries in the Olympics.

Corsendonk

FYI, the link to Irelands Sevens world cup results and squad lists. We seem to have ignored the World Series of 7s but are happy to field a team for the World Cup. 1993 was a great year, we made it to the semi final of the cup but the results have declined since. The next World Cup is 2013 in Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_national_rugby_union_team_(sevens)

Amazotheamazing

Corsendonk wrote: »

FYI, the link to Irelands Sevens world cup results and squad lists. We seem to have ignored the World Series of 7s but are happy to field a team for the World Cup. 1993 was a great year, we made it to the semi final of the cup but the results have declined since. The next World Cup is 2013 in Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_national_rugby_union_team_(sevens)

Think we have to field a team for the 7's RWC?

Teej

d'Oracle wrote: »

Don't take this as a slight on your rugby knowledge, but do you watch much 7's?

Most of the successful 7's nations (Fiji, NZ, SA, Samoa etc) keep their 7's teams distinct from their 15 as side teams now. No-one is going to send "senior players in their twilight" out to the olympics if they are taking it seriously. Its not kinsale here, 7's is now an international sport of its own merits. Approaching it as a half arsed festival sport as it traditionally has been in Ireland, will result in embarrassment.

There are certainly players with the talents and abilities to excel at 7's in the country, we just have to get them on the circuit over the next 2 years, get them playing.

And there are a Number of countries without a rugby tradition who are doing very well at 7's. Russia and Kenya jump to mind. Infact there are more nations who are competitive at 7s than 15
Which is all one of the reasons why I have said that 7's is such a great idea for the Olympics.

No slight taken will freely admit that my knowledge of rugby especially 7s is pretty basic. I watch 7s when shown on the basic BBC channels - so that's a not very much

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying (got this much from my basic knowledge:D) however I still wonder where the pool of players would come from if we are to target this properly. As you said "if its taken seriously" they obviously won't send players who just want to be Olympians my point is though will they take it seriously? There's also the intricate political workings of the OCI to negotiate to ensure that the IRFU has full autonomy over selection (yes they would probably have more weight than many organisations but its not unheard of for federations to lose control of selection policies especially new members without full voting rights)

As a matter of interest, what do specialist 7s players do for a day-job? I think the England players are with GP teams(or whatever its now called) but what about those from countries without professional leagues? If players have to be released from clubs for qualifiers (12 teams in the Games, I presume they're be a qualifying tournament of some sort) & the Games will this happen if not playing for a club controlled by their home union?

I agree 7's is a great idea for the Olympics especially as it will be both male & female giving the women's game some much needed exposure.

d'Oracle

Teej wrote: »

No slight taken will freely admit that my knowledge of rugby especially 7s is pretty basic. I watch 7s when shown on the basic BBC channels - so that's a not very much

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying (got this much from my basic knowledge:D) however I still wonder where the pool of players would come from if we are to target this properly. As you said "if its taken seriously" they obviously won't send players who just want to be Olympians my point is though will they take it seriously? There's also the intricate political workings of the OCI to negotiate to ensure that the IRFU has full autonomy over selection (yes they would probably have more weight than many organisations but its not unheard of for federations to lose control of selection policies especially new members without full voting rights)

As a matter of interest, what do specialist 7s players do for a day-job? I think the England players are with GP teams(or whatever its now called) but what about those from countries without professional leagues? If players have to be released from clubs for qualifiers (12 teams in the Games, I presume they're be a qualifying tournament of some sort) & the Games will this happen if not playing for a club controlled by their home union?

Depends on the player/team.
Many of them play pro club/franchise rugby, certainly a number of England 7s players can be seen in the premiership. NZ players are usually Air NZ cup players (eg Lote Raikabula, Jr. Tomasi Cama) , some are Super howevermanythefeck players (Dagg, Vito et al) who inevitably move on to 15s. A lot of the Fijian players actually play in Fiji (7s is basically their national sport). I think the SAffers are usually Currie Cup standard or, again, young Super# players

But as you say there have been issues with players who played abroad, but its the Olympics at the end of the day, one would hope even the French would see the value in it.

Stev_o

d'Oracle wrote: »

Depends on the player/team.
Many of them play pro club/franchise rugby, certainly a number of England 7s players can be seen in the premiership. NZ players are usually Air NZ cup players (eg Lote Raikabula, Jr. Tomasi Cama) , some are Super howevermanythefeck players (Dagg, Vito et al) who inevitably move on to 15s. A lot of the Fijian players actually play in Fiji (7s is basically their national sport). I think the SAffers are usually Currie Cup standard or, again, young Super# players

But as you say there have been issues with players who played abroad, but its the Olympics at the end of the day, one would hope even the French would see the value in it.

Or Bok standard looking at you Mr Aplon.

Junior

I think it certainly could be done, how many players make up a panel ? I'm sure they would also be eligible for an IOC Grant as well nes pas ?

joesoap25

The IRFU made 1.7 MIL last year in profit so there should be no problem in funding a 7's squad. A 7's squad is usually 12 players and most of the major countires use young guys to give them experience in the game of rugby. There are plenty of players in Ireland who are in that stage between the U20's and getting into the A squad. The 7's would be a way for them to gain experience and play with one another. It would also be a good way to cap players like Ciaran Ruddock so they can't go back to wales or wherever. Off the top of my head this could be a team we put out fairly quickly:

1. Paul Ryan
2. Dominic Ryan
3. Paddy Butler
4. Peter O'Mahoney
5. Fionn Carr
6. Tom Gleeson
7. Scott Deasy
8. Paul Marshall
9. Jamie Smith
10. Eoin O'Malley
11. Dave Kearney
12. Cillian Willis

None of those guys bar Fionn Carr are first team regulars so playing in the 7's would be better than say the AIL. And think how invalubale it would have been this summer with no A squad playing summer tests.