UK MP wants to stop flying in The Mach Loop

Steyr

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-10720984

Elfyn Llwyd MP demands rethink on low-fly jet training

An MP has demanded the Ministry of Defence (MOD) to take immediate steps to stop low flying training over rural Wales, due to health risks.

Dwyfor Meirionnydd MP Elfyn Llwyd claims the practice is damaging some of his constituents' hearing.

Wales is one of the three main areas in the UK where low-fly training is carried out because of its large areas of unrestricted airspace.

The MOD said low-level training was a continuing requirement.

Mr Llwyd wants immediate steps taken to tackle what he called the "severe health dangers" linked to the practice.

It is not clear where all the planes come from although one resident said some American aircraft fly from the east of England to use the airspace.

The Plaid Cymru parliamentary leader has urged the UK government to follow the lead of Germany, which ceased low flying in German airspace following research by academics on the health consequences.

That government also took steps to lessen the noise pollution, Mr Llwyd said.

However, Anglesey's MP Albert Owen said the training was essential and a big contributor to the local economy.

A statement by defence minister Andrew Robathan on 19 July indicated there had been an increase of 11% in flying hours on the previous training year across the UK.

Another question in the House of Lords revealed that 16 other countries, including Germany, have used UK airspace for training purposes.

Mr Llwyd said: "We must have an urgent rethink of this situation. More jets than ever before are now being trained and in no way are the people of north and mid Wales being compensated for this.

"In my constituency, a high percentage of those living in Dinas Mawddwy and Llanuwchllyn who were children in primary schools there, now have problems with hearing.

"Research by German Professor Isling proved beyond doubt that when jets fly at low altitudes, it does indeed have a detrimental effect upon an individual's hearing.

"While the German government will not allow low-flying of this type on its own territory, the UK government is meanwhile perfectly happy for them to use ours."

'Huge investor'

Mr Owen said he had to look at the big picture.

"What we're talking about is a base that has been here 60 years. Yes, it is noisy, the people understand that.

"It's a huge investor into the local economy. It brings quality jobs to the area and we have maintenance jobs attached to this fast flying.

"If that didn't happen in Anglesey, those jobs would go somewhere else.

"It's a balance between the economy and the defence of our country."

The north of England, including the Lake District in Cumbria, and parts of Scotland are the two other major areas for low-level flight training.

Last year, Dumfries and Galloway horse breeder Alyson King lost a £100,000 compensation claim against the MOD after arguing that low flights were causing distress to her family and the animals at a sanctuary she runs.

A MOD spokesman said in response to Mr Llwyd's proposal: "Current operations show there is a continuing requirement for our pilots to operate successfully in the low-level environment.

"To ensure our armed forces are capable of meeting the operational task, low flying training must be conducted in the UK before deployment to operational theatres."


And then this

Marian Rees lives in Talyllyn, Gwynedd, and says the low-flying by military planes has been a problem for years.

She said: "The RAF initially were using it and now they train other pilots from all over the world. The Americans in particular are using this valley coming all the way from East Anglia.

"It not just an annoyance, it's to do with safety and health as well, because when these F16s and Eurofighters come through you can actually feel it go right through your body.

"But how can you prove it? In Germany they proved it of course.

"I want to see it stopping. There's no justification for it at all."


____________________________________________________________________________________________

Never been any F-16's thru The Loop..

pclancy

Lover of planes or not, it would drive me insane if fast jets were using my backyard as a training ground, especially before being sent off to fight an immoral and illegal war.

Nforce

pclancy wrote: »

Lover of planes or not, it would drive me insane if fast jets were using my backyard as a training ground, especially before being sent off to fight an immoral and illegal war.

Low level flight training has been going on long before the need to send pilot's "off to fight an immoral and illegal war". I grew up in the UK during the 70's, when low level training was the norm. How I miss seeing Phantom's,Hunters and even the odd Lightning screaming past at almost rooftop height.
The Loop sees very little traffic these days,compared to say 15-20 years ago, much to the dismay of the spotters and photographers who climb the hillsides in the hope of watching the aircraft pass through.

pclancy

Yep I realise that, I'm saying I wouldn't fancy it near me no matter my love of planes and I guess I get annoyed at the thought of the MOD telling the locals to just grin and bear it as its highly important their pilots are fully trained to go do something I consider a complete waste of time and life.

Nforce

pclancy wrote: »

Yep I realise that, I'm saying I wouldn't fancy it near me no matter my love of planes and I guess I get annoyed at the thought of the MOD telling the locals to just grin and bear it as its highly important their pilots are fully trained to go do something I consider a complete waste of time and life.

But it is highly important that the crews are fully trained....it's an integral part of fast jet training. As a matter of fact when they are flying operationally they fly sorties at much lower levels. They also avoid overflying built up areas as much as is possible, hence the low level training areas are located at sparsely populated areas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjLECM2N59k

punchdrunk

but it's a bit like people who buy houses near croker and then complain about the traffic and crowds on match days...

WTF did you think was going to happen when you bought your house in the area??? :rolleyes:

Steyr

Nforce wrote: »

They also avoid overflying built up areas as much as is possible, hence the low level training areas are located at sparsely populated areas.

If only we had a USAFE base in Connemara..Not only fun but would bring spotters galore.

elius

Whilst spending most of my youth in my grandads in shropshire. I use to have the pleasure of watching them do low level passes and for anyone that hasnt witnessed it its just an incredible sight. Also use to watch the red arrow's in training. Buy god could them boys fly.
As mentioned you dont like it why live there.
If i had to choice between road noise and fighter jets id take the jets all day long...

SugarHigh

punchdrunk wrote: »

but it's a bit like people who buy houses near croker and then complain about the traffic and crowds on match days...

WTF did you think was going to happen when you bought your house in the area??? :rolleyes:

How long have these flights been taking place?

Nforce

SugarHigh wrote: »

How long have these flights been taking place?

Low level flights...?


Probably ever since RAF Valley (1941) and RAF Mona (1915) were built

Nforce

elius wrote: »

Whilst spending most of my youth in my grandads in shropshire. I use to have the pleasure of watching them do low level passes and for anyone that hasnt witnessed it its just an incredible sight. Also use to watch the red arrow's in training. Buy god could them boys fly.
As mentioned you dont like it why live there.
If i had to choice between road noise and fighter jets id take the jets all day long...

I remember seeing the Red's pass over my house en-route to an airshow....back when they had the Gnat's. I'm showing my age now!:o:p

Steyr

Hopefully il make it to the loop' some day, gotta love how obliging the RAF/USAFE/FAF Pilots are for "topsides" shots. Either they are flying right at you and i mean right at you or just flying along and see spotters on the hillside and bank to give a topside shot.

Steyr

Nforce wrote: »

I remember seeing the Red's pass over my house en-route to an airshow....back when they had the Gnat's. I'm showing my age now!:o:p

Maybe you seen them when they were The Yellowjacks!..:pac:

Nforce

Steyr wrote: »

Maybe you seen them when they were The Yellowjacks!..:pac:

Err...I'm not THAT old!:eek:

On one of the photo sites I'm on there's a Hawk T.2 instructor from Valley who sometimes gives the guys a heads up when he's flying through the Loop and provides a better angle for them to "shoot".

Turbulent Bill

punchdrunk wrote: »

but it's a bit like people who buy houses near croker and then complain about the traffic and crowds on match days...

WTF did you think was going to happen when you bought your house in the area??? :rolleyes:

That's not a fair comparison. Part of the residents' complaint is that other airforces are using UK airspace to train when they're banned from doing it at home, without any consideration to those affected by the increased intrusion.

It would be like the German FA using Croke Park because they had a hooligan problem at home and were banned from home stadia.

Dacian

Have just added that spot as another "must see place"

Where exactly is it? Gwynedd? Assume mid wales among the mountains.


The locals have a point BUT anyone who bought their in the last 30 years should have known about it. Same as the people who live near LHR.

And if the foreign air forces bring money into the region isn't that a good thing overall, not to mention the (small) amount of aviation related tourism.

Nforce

Dacian wrote: »

Have just added that spot as another "must see place"

Where exactly is it? Gwynedd? Assume mid wales among the mountains.

Here's the Mach Loop along with some good vantage points for spotting

From my understanding...the foreign airforces are bound by the same low flying rules of their home countries while operating in UK airspace eg. the GAF have a 500ft minimum limit.