Are there any taboos left in wrestling?

Butch Cassidy

In the 90s it was breaking kayfabe was the biggest taboo and when that 4th wall was broken down it produced some amazing angles and matches, first in ECW and then later in the WCW and WWF. Then as the WWF's attitude era went on outrageous and at times downright grotesque angles and sketches became the norm. Added to this hardcore or extreme wrestling has effectively jumped the shark with the most ludicrous of deathmatches - strimmers, spiders, lightubes etc.*


Is there anything left to do? The WWE's product in the last few while seems to have returned to actual wrestling based stuff though still with PG gimmicks.

I suppose what I'm wondering is what does it mean to push the envelope now or does it even need to be pushed?




*For what it's worth I think the peak of hardcore/extreme stuff was the KotR Hell in a Cell

Degag

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

In the 90s it was breaking kayfabe was the biggest taboo and when that 4th wall was broken down it produced some amazing angles and matches, first in ECW and then later in the WCW and WWF. Then as the WWF's attitude era went on outrageous and at times downright grotesque angles and sketches became the norm. Added to this hardcore or extreme wrestling has effectively jumped the shark with the most ludicrous of deathmatches - strimmers, spiders, lightubes etc.*


Is there anything left to do? The WWE's product in the last few while seems to have returned to actual wrestling based stuff though still with PG gimmicks.

I suppose what I'm wondering is what does it mean to push the envelope now or does it even need to be pushed?




*For what it's worth I think the peak of hardcore/extreme stuff was the KotR Hell in a Cell

Don't know, that match may be the peak of "hardcore/extreme stuff" as you describe but it certainly didn't break kayfabe or any taboos from what i can make out. It was certainly a defining moment in the history of wrestling as we know it, but that's not really the question you are asking.

waltersobchak

The last taboo would be someone killed in the ring/or sex in the ring.

gimmick

^ Didn't Edge and Lita simulate the latter a few years ago?

And there have been a few deaths in the ring already - most notably and recently Mitsuharu Misawa about 1 year ago.

waltersobchak

gimmick wrote: »

^ Didn't Edge and Lita simulate the latter a few years ago?

And there have been a few deaths in the ring already - most notably and recently Mitsuharu Misawa about 1 year ago.

Yeah the Edge/Lita "Live Sex" thing was Raws highest rated segment of the 00's, i guess theres no taboo's left so:pac:

jaykhunter

gimmick wrote: »

And there have been a few deaths in the ring already - most notably and recently Mitsuharu Misawa about 1 year ago.

I suppose booking a "legitimate" death in the ring is one taboo they won't break (unlike hokey deaths relating to the Undertaker)......live rape, I suppose, as opposed to Katie Vick, oh - actual Drug Use! Like a character is a druggie (even if they booked Hawk to be an alcoholic)

maybe a wedding day that goes off without a hitch :pac:

Diabhal Beag

gimmick wrote: »

^ Didn't Edge and Lita simulate the latter a few years ago?

That was hilarious. The background music made it.

GTR63

waltersobchak wrote: »

Yeah the Edge/Lita "Live Sex" thing was Raws highest rated segment of the 00's, i guess theres no taboo's left so:pac:

That says so much about America than it does about WWE.The only thing it shows is how Wrestling died on its arse the last decade in popularity.

flahavaj

I doubt even Vince would ever do a kiddy fiddler angle. Pity, I reckon Golddust would be immense in the role.

michael.etc...

flahavaj wrote: »

I doubt even Vince would ever do a kiddy fiddler angle. Pity, I reckon Golddust would be immense in the role.

Gah, that's it... nightmares for me tonight.

gerrybbadd

Weren't Katie Lea & Paul Burchill supposed to come in as though in an incestious relationship there originally??? That'd be a new low!!!!

sky88

flahavaj wrote: »

I doubt even Vince would ever do a kiddy fiddler angle. Pity, I reckon Golddust would be immense in the role.

i dont know whats worse that i think vince would do the angle or that i agree goldust would be brilliant at it

waltersobchak

Didnt Vince want to do an angle where he was gonna be the Father of Stephanies first baby, definitely pre PG:pac:

sky88

waltersobchak wrote: »

Didnt Vince want to do an angle where he was gonna be the Father of Stephanies first baby, definitely pre PG:pac:

yea he wanted it to be him or shane steph said it on vinces dvd u got to love vince sometime

geeky

sky88 wrote: »

i dont know whats worse that i think vince would do the angle or that i agree goldust would be brilliant at it

During a stint in WCW (after his first WWE Golddust run), IIRC, he shot a series of vignettes as 'seven', peering in at a child's bedroom. Story goes that the network nixed the gimmick because they thought people would take him for a kiddy-fiddler. So yes, I guess there's at least one taboo left.

That is, until they let Goldust control a promotion... all eyes to florida...

KrazeeEyezKilla

A storyline involving Benoit would be a big taboo. Somebody could come in and start using his moves, the cut-throat, claims of being the best technical wrestler. It could be a deranged fan who wants to be the new Benoit. It's the one storyline the WWE would never go near.

2nd Row Donkey

flahavaj wrote: »

I doubt even Vince would ever do a kiddy fiddler angle. Pity, I reckon Golddust would be immense in the role.

If done correctly, goldie could pull it off (no pun intended)

2nd Row Donkey

Remember the Billy & chuck gimmick. They did that pretty well. That 'man love' angle was hilarious.

where are they now though?

seriously, where are billy and chuck... (I don't watch TNA or follow ROH or any of them other promotions. )

Balasubbie

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Remember the Billy & chuck gimmick. They did that pretty well. That 'man love' angle was hilarious.

where are they now though?

seriously, where are billy and chuck... (I don't watch TNA or follow ROH or any of them other promotions. )

Both were released from TNA & WWE, respectively, and are now back in
indy hell, livin' off old gimmicks they don't have the rights to and waitin'
to be textbook cases of 'Randy Robinson' Syndrome.

Man's gotta eat.

Butch Cassidy

waltersobchak wrote: »

The last taboo would be someone killed in the ring/or sex in the ring.

Deaths have been used in storylines haven't they? Vince getting killed being one that springs to mind.

Degag wrote: »

Don't know, that match may be the peak of "hardcore/extreme stuff" as you describe but it certainly didn't break kayfabe or any taboos from what i can make out. It was certainly a defining moment in the history of wrestling as we know it, but that's not really the question you are asking.

Vince McMahon came out with a very concerned look on his face breaking kayfabe as did Terry Funk who had kinda feuded a bit with Foley - their tag team split and they had a falls count anywhere match on Raw is War.

jaykhunter wrote: »

I suppose booking a "legitimate" death in the ring is one taboo they won't break (unlike hokey deaths relating to the Undertaker)......live rape, I suppose, as opposed to Katie Vick, oh - actual Drug Use! Like a character is a druggie (even if they booked Hawk to be an alcoholic)

maybe a wedding day that goes off without a hitch :pac:

During the McMahon/Undertaker fued of '03 McMahon threatened to have 'Taker's wife abducted and raped.



I think "taboo" might've been the wrong word. What I meant to ask was are there any wrestling "rules" left to break. Ye know, all of the unwritten rules that were broken over a period of about 10 years. It seems that kayfabe and traditional face vs heel feuds are back rather than the "shades of grey" of the previous boom years.

CMpunked

In this world or wwe-pg, everything has gone back to being taboo.

Blood, suggestive talk, anything sexual.

Maybe the cycle will begin again in a few years when all the kids that the pg is aimed at grows up, they grow the wwe up with them again.

I would love if i could see goldust pitching a kiddy abduction angle, maybe reys kid.
You can imagine:
"Vince, trust me, it'll be tastefully done."


When you think about it, theres been no more taboos broke in wrestling that havent been broken in mainstream television as a whole.
Its come a hell of a long way in the last 10 years.

Butch Cassidy

CMpunked wrote: »

In this world or wwe-pg, everything has gone back to being taboo.

Blood, suggestive talk, anything sexual.

Maybe the cycle will begin again in a few years when all the kids that the pg is aimed at grows up, they grow the wwe up with them again.

I would love if i could see goldust pitching a kiddy abduction angle, maybe reys kid.
You can imagine:
"Vince, trust me, it'll be tastefully done."


When you think about it, theres been no more taboos broke in wrestling that havent been broken in mainstream television as a whole.
Its come a hell of a long way in the last 10 years.

I was thinking specifically relating to wrestling. I'm talking about breaking kayfabe like Ken Shamrock calling the Undertaker "Mark" back in April 1999, WCW giving away the results to Monday Night RAWm Mankind getting thrown off the cell. I think all of them things and more were related in the pushing of the envelope and the breaking of wrestling rules - unwritten ones of course

CMpunked

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I was thinking specifically relating to wrestling. I'm talking about breaking kayfabe like Ken Shamrock calling the Undertaker "Mark" back in April 1999, WCW giving away the results to Monday Night RAWm Mankind getting thrown off the cell. I think all of them things and more were related in the pushing of the envelope and the breaking of wrestling rules - unwritten ones of course

Oh yeah I get you now.

I guess one taboo could be choking people with ties?

Charisteas

One that I can think of which I don't believe has happened, is Vince McMahon legitimately firing someone on live TV.

He had the storyline where he was firing someone every week, but I don't recall a genuine live TV P45 moment.

CMpunked

Charisteas wrote: »

One that I can think of which I don't believe has happened, is Vince McMahon legitimately firing someone on live TV.

He had the storyline where he was firing someone every week, but I don't recall a genuine live TV P45 moment.

Could that not borderline unfair dismissal?

Butch Cassidy

CMpunked wrote: »

Oh yeah I get you now.

I guess one taboo could be choking people with ties?

Hah christ yeah!

CMpunked wrote: »

Could that not borderline unfair dismissal?

Don't the terms of their contracts mean that talent can dropped/released/fired at a drop of a hat?

CMpunked

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Don't the terms of their contracts mean that talent can dropped/released/fired at a drop of a hat?

I think there's more to it than just being as black and white as that.
For example the three strikes rule?

Butch Cassidy

I can't be sure as I haven't read any of the contracts but Brian Danielson was dropped pretty quickly wasn't he? Don't see him suing for unfair dismissal. They're technically/legally "independent contractors" and WWE cancels the contract when they want. The wrestler can request a release also.

CMpunked

Good point.
Not sure how I would like seeing vince actually fire someone, and maybe from the fallout of survivor series 97, there's a reason.