More Tolls on the M50 proposed?

jock101

New barrier free tolls have been propsed for the South side sections of the M50, Cherrywood being one location proposed! What do you think, and will you pay or stop using the M50?

jaffa20

Will deffo try and avoid if they put a toll there. It's a ridiculous idea. 2 tolls along a short stretch of motorway restricted to 100kmph. I'd probably be quicker taking an alternative route anyway.

jock101

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0726/1224275468010.html

It could cost up to 6 euro to drive from Bray to the Airport! lol PaddyWhackery!

thenightrider

Id just stop useing the m50 if there was more tolls put on it

Heroditas

The move has the double benefit of including significant additional volumes of traffic without being either too practically or politically difficult, sources said.

Extending the toll range from a single point where vehicles cross the bridge to all users of the M50 “could be seen as being more fair”.

All they're missing is the word "equitable" to complete the hat trick for Bullsh1t Bingo

Guy:Incognito

The quote in Heroditas post sounds more like a 2nd toll location rather than a 2nd toll. ie if you drivign from Bray to the airport youll still only be tolled once.

jock101

This is just one to many taxes on private transport in this country, may as well quit any normal payed job and go on the dole. Lay in bed watching TV all day! Just give up!

But transport sources said the proposals that “leapt off the page” were the Waterford route and extending the toll area on the M50. “Road pricing” had been mentioned as a “demand management measure” as far back as the Platform For Change report, published in 2001.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0726/1224275468010.html

Mr. Manager

jock101 wrote: »

New barrier free tolls have been propsed for the South side sections of the M50, Cherrywood being one location proposed! What do you think, and will you pay or stop using the M50?

Where does it say about Cherrywood? I work in the technology park and would rather not pay a toll going to work. It's the main reason why I moved to the southside. Saves me ~€100 p/m

jock101

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Where does it say about Cherrywood? I work in the technology park and would rather not pay a toll going to work. It's the main reason why I moved to the southside. Saves me ~€100 p/m

Our Glorious TDs have been talking about it on various Radio stations, and Cherrywood was mentioned!

Heroditas

If they decide to stick a toll at Cherrywood we'd see traffic divert onto the N11 and then come back onto the M50 at Carrickmines.

No doubt they'll just lash booths onto the Carrickmines entrances and exits instead.

JHMEG

Same article says there's a toll on the M9 -- there isn't. There's a toll on the N25 Waterford bypass, which you don't need to use if going to Waterford.

Gumbo

i already avoid the M50 where possible as a matter of principle at the moment, so putting another toll on it i would never be seen on it again :mad:

i only ever need to cross the M50 toll once a month max, so i go the long way round.:D

jock101

kceire wrote: »

i already avoid the M50 where possible as a matter of principle at the moment, so putting another toll on it i would never be seen on it again :mad:

i only ever need to cross the M50 toll once a month max, so i go the long way round.:D

I agree, but with fuel prices soring to 1.33ish at the mo. Paying the two euro to cross the Westlink can brake even, especially with the time, fuel and hassle saved from not going by Knockmaroon etc... But if we are going to be tolled at points along the M50, forget about it!:rolleyes:

pippip

If they put a second toll in it would reduce the number of people who speed.

(more potential income for the government)

jock101

pippip wrote: »

If they put a second toll in it would reduce the number of people who speed.

(more potential income for the government)

I hate the amount of speeding on the M50, but the private Gatso camera company that got the licensed to catch them, is starting in October!
So more tolls will have nothing to do with stop that behavour! Anyway they will be barrier free like the Westlink toll.

pippip

jock101 wrote: »

I hate the amount of speeding on the M50, but the private Gatso camera company that got the licensed to catch them, is starting in October!
So more tolls will have nothing to do with stop that behavour! Anyway they will be barrier free like the Westlink toll.

Nothing to do with barriers.

Its stops speeding because if you travel through both your time in the middle has to match the speed limit. In europe you sometimes see cars parked up before tolls waiting till they can go through.

jock101

pippip wrote: »

Nothing to do with barriers.

Its stops speeding because if you travel through both your time in the middle has to match the speed limit. In europe you sometimes see cars parked up before tolls waiting till they can go through.

Probably true, but thats off the point. New tolls is the issue!

Del2005

I can't understand the logic of more tolls on the M50. They build a modern 3/4 lane motorway with free flowing junctions to take traffic off Dublin streets.

Then just after they finish the motorway the decide to add extra tolls. People will simply go back onto the local roads, where it's usually quicker then taking the M50 apart from rush hour.

That'll make the roads of Dublin much more dangerous while a brand new motorway is underutilised

I also like the idea that just because a motorway only has 1 toll they should add more so it doesn't get slagged off by all the cool motorways with 2.

kasper

just write a letter to gormless gormley and tell him you are going the back roads to work and that you would prefer to spend your money on petrol instead of tolls ,and tell him you drive a 1992 five litre car car that doesnt have a catalytic converter

Heroditas

kasper wrote: »

just write a letter to gormless gormley and tell him you are going the back roads to work and that you would prefer to spend your money on petrol instead of tolls ,and tell him you drive a 1992 five litre car car that doesnt have a catalytic converter

Also tell him that we don't need the incinerator because due to the increases in home heating costs, we're all just going to burn our rubbish instead.

monkeypants

Heroditas wrote: »

kasper wrote: »

just write a letter to gormless gormley and tell him you are going the back roads to work and that you would prefer to spend your money on petrol instead of tolls ,and tell him you drive a 1992 five litre car car that doesnt have a catalytic converter

Also tell him that we don't need the incinerator because due to the increases in home heating costs, we're all just going to burn our rubbish instead.

Don't forget to add to the end - "P.S. You're a cnut."

Run_to_da_hills

More electronic tolling = more surveillance,

Just make sure your Tax, NCT or DOE is up to scratch when you pass through them.

Del2005

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

More electronic tolling = more surveillance,

Just make sure your Tax, NCT or DOE is up to scratch when you pass through them.

They should all be up to scratch when on the roads. It's against the law to drive without them, all the better if illegal motorists are made pay their way like the rest of us suckers. Getting dangerous vehicles off the road may save your life some day.

Run_to_da_hills

Del2005 wrote: »

They should all be up to scratch when on the roads. It's against the law to drive without them, all the better if illegal motorists are made pay their way like the rest of us suckers. Getting dangerous vehicles off the road may save your life some day.

This type of technology can also turn the other way.

Dublindigi

This is the only tolled ring road I have come across in Europe or indeed anwhere I know of, apart from the Dartford Tunnel M25 and they propose more tolls on it ! Idiots , a*****es, could only happen here .

daRobot

Dublindigi wrote: »

This is the only tolled ring road I have come across in Europe or indeed anwhere I know of, apart from the Dartford Tunnel M25 and they propose more tolls on it ! Idiots , a*****es, could only happen here .

+1000000

It's crazy enough having a toll on a city ring road, but mind numbingly retarded to suggest a second one.

djimi

Dublindigi wrote: »

This is the only tolled ring road I have come across in Europe or indeed anwhere I know of, apart from the Dartford Tunnel M25 and they propose more tolls on it ! Idiots , a*****es, could only happen here .

Arent most of the ringroads in France tolled? I seem to remember there being a hell of a lot of tolls on French roads; way more than we have over here.

Dublindigi

djimi wrote: »

Arent most of the ringroads in France tolled? I seem to remember there being a hell of a lot of tolls on French roads; way more than we have over here.

I have travelled extensively in France on their Motorway system over the years and found that there are plenty of tolls on their Auto-Routes but not on any of the city Ring Roads

djimi

Dublindigi wrote: »

I have travelled extensively in France on their Motorway system over the years and found that there are plenty of tolls on their Auto-Routes but not on any of the city Ring Roads

Fair enough. I seem to remember my parents giving out stink about the tolls on what I thought was the ring road around Paris, but maybe they were referring to a different road.

shedweller

Do the French pay much road/motor tax or VRT?
Are their roads in bits like ours?

ART6

Why does it matter what other countries do? Do we have to slavishly follow the fashion? Yes, of course we do if it acts nicely as another stealth tax and allows us in government to maintain the lifestyles to which we have become accustomed.

The fact remains, in my view at least, that road users in this country have been screwed enough. We have all paid for our substandard roads many times over in our taxes, and now we are being told (should that be tolled) to pay again.

There should be no tolls. Period.:mad:

Seweryn

shedweller wrote: »

Do the French pay much road/motor tax or VRT?
Are their roads in bits like ours?

As far as I know they do not pay any motor tax and that is why they have the tolls.

L1011

Seweryn wrote: »

As far as I know they do not pay any motor tax and that is why they have the tolls.

They have tolls due to the tolled roads being privately built and operated, not down to any connection with motor tax.

They had motor tax until 2001 for private vehicles and still do for commercials

CiniO

All over the world authorities are trying to keep city bypasses free of tolls. Even in France where tolls are extremally expensive, city bypasses are just for free. It's to encourage people to use bypass instead of going through the city.
Only in Ireland it seems to be different.

unkel

Dublindigi wrote: »

I have travelled extensively in France on their Motorway system over the years and found that there are plenty of tolls on their Auto-Routes but not on any of the city Ring Roads

Exactly. International best practice (for many decades) is to toll between cities, not in or around cities. And what do the politicians here decide? :rolleyes:

shedweller

Why do we sit back and do nothing?

Biggies

Hello,

I've been lurking through the forums for a while and today I decided to post my first message. Though it doesn't specifically refer to the M50, I've been growing more and more angry at seeing tolls popping up everywhere (today the Limerick tunnel at the Shannon being the latest) and I've decided to tell everyone how to avoid them. I do a lot of driving around the country, but I live by the N25 between Cork and Waterford, so I don't know about all tolls in the country, but these are the ones I've avoided so far.

M8 Fermoy bypass toll: Simply drive the old N8 through Watergrasshill, Rathcormac and Fermoy. If you're coming from Dublin leave into Fermoy, later there's no need really to go through Watergrasshill, as the road veers to the left and over the motorway.

M8/M7 link toll. When coming from Cork ignore the first toll sign and keep driving the motorway until you see the "Toll plaza ahead" indication, leaving at the R433 Rathdowney-Abbeyleix. Follow signs for Abbeyleix and when you get to the town there's also a service station at your right; if you take left you join the old N8 and rejoin the motorway outside Port Laoise. If you're coming from Dublin, leave road when you see signs to Abbeyleix and Durrow. After the traffic lights in Abbeyleix, join the R433 to Rathdowney (there isn't a single sign about the motorway link, no wonder due to how badly they want to screw us over).

Dublin M50. Now, this is probably the least time-effective alternative I've come up with, adding 20-30 minutes of travel time, but I really haven't found a better one. I leave the M50 going into Dublin at the N4. There I leave at Lucan Road and cross the river at Chapelizod Road, turning left at traffic lights and taking the R109 uphill bordering the back wall of Phoenix Park. There I join Tower Road, College Road into Castleknock and from there Auburn Avenue, which joins the N3 right beside the M50 after the tolled section.

Drogheda Bypass (M1): As mentioned elsewhere, I take the N2 through Slane and rejoin the M1 after the tolled bridge. At Mollyrue I take the R169 which joins the M1 motorway outside Dunleer. This route can be very frustrating approaching Slane until the bypass is finally built. I can't believe there's still single-lane bridge traffic in such a national road. There's also the alternative of going through Drogheda, but I find this route even longer than the one above if you're coming from the West of the country.

Waterford N25 toll. From the Cork side, leave just beside the "Toll Plaza ahead" signs to Waterford city and south. Take left at the first roundabout (Old Kilmeaden Road) and continue through all the roundabouts into the city centre. This road will finish at the signalised junction of Military Road. Take left there and continue downhill straight into the old bridge and the old course of the N25/N9. If you're going to Rosslare or Wexford South it's probably a good alternative to avoid New Ross and take the Waterford South Relief Road and continue to the Passage East-Ballyhack car ferry (which is more expensive than the toll but at least you rest assured the money isn't going to the Government).

Now, if someone could help me working out how to avoid other tolls, that would be greatly appreciated. As for Limerick, I think I'll continue crossing the Shannon by the quays... I usually drive from Tipperary town into Ennis/Galway, so the most direct route is still through the city centre (though obviously slowed down by many signals).

Now, if ye forgive the rant, this is why I don't pay tolls. The Government already screws me €174 for 6 months in road tax, plus 2 thirds or so for every time I fill the petrol tank. Some people may think that €1.80 for using a certain road is an ok price, but it's the principle of having to pay not once, but twice for using certain roads, when most of our roads are in a terrible state anyway. Recently while driving on the R634 Tallow-Youghal my car hit a pothole at 80kms/h and punctured the tyre and damaged the rim badly. This is why I object paying again when the money I must pay by law isn't being used properly.

Besides, as someone was mentioning earlier, why pay for bypasses anyway? No other country makes people pay to avoid using city streets, like earlier said in France. In fact, the Government could make probably more money tolling city centres, which is quite common in Norway. Every Norwegian car has a chip that indicates where it goes into a tolled centre and the road authority sends later a bill for the vehicle usage in that city. That means, almost everyone there uses public transport. No one in their right minds elsewhere in Europe would toll a bypass which should encourage people to avoid the busy urban streets and I don't really know why we are so complacent to allow such dimwitted robbery taking place. If every one said "That's enough!", the Government will have to think again about their plans to introduce more tolls, like this complete and utter b****cks of the South M50.

Ok, enough of the rant. Apologies but someone had to say it.

Seweryn

Biggies wrote: »

Hello,

I've been lurking through the forums for a while and today I decided to post my first message.

Some useful info there . However it would be handy if someone uploaded screen shots of the local map around tolls with the best avoidance routes. By the way, your motor tax rates are very reasonable. Some people, including myself, pay multiple figures of your rate...

Tea drinker

unkel wrote: »

Exactly. International best practice (for many decades) is to toll between cities, not in or around cities. And what do the politicians here decide? :rolleyes:

Well their friends have to get the appropriate profits - remember? International norms are applied if suitable to this goal, if not ignored.
If they put a second toll expect them to put a 3rd and more then around the city centre. Greenback party will do their part.

We are screwed because of the property "boom"! Throw in Irish clan based voting like from deepest africa (i voght fur feenagh falll cos daddy does) and we got what we asked for. A bunch of flippin freaks.

-Chris-

Biggies wrote: »

Hello,

I've been lurking through the forums for a while and today I decided to post my first message.

Welcome to boards!


I'm going to play devil's advocate here and ask how long each "bypass" takes. You mention 20-30 minutes for the M50 dodge, what about the rest of the tolls?

Tea drinker

-Chris- wrote: »

Welcome to boards!


I'm going to play devil's advocate here and ask how long each "bypass" takes. You mention 20-30 minutes for the M50 dodge, what about the rest of the tolls?

Anti Green and anti social results from the tolls. Where is Gormless now?

Biggies

Originally Posted by -Chris-
Welcome to boards!


I'm going to play devil's advocate here and ask how long each "bypass" takes. You mention 20-30 minutes for the M50 dodge, what about the rest of the tolls?

Hi Chris,

As I don't take the tolled roads, I don't have an exact estimate, all I can say it's how long it takes me to complete the detour. So, i can say the Abbeyleix-Rathdowney detour off the M8 is very good, you're only about 20kms in decent roads off the motorway, and also you can fill up there. I think that's the reason why it's not signposted in Abbeyleix.

As for avoidance routes, this is my M50 dodge. If anyone knows better let me know (I'm not that familiar with Dublin western suburbs). When the whole M8 is put into googlemaps I can add the one above.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=106274318990260034621.00048c88353350d178562

-Chris-

Biggies wrote: »

Hi Chris,

As I don't take the tolled roads, I don't have an exact estimate, all I can say it's how long it takes me to complete the detour. So, i can say the Abbeyleix-Rathdowney detour off the M8 is very good, you're only about 20kms in decent roads off the motorway, and also you can fill up there. I think that's the reason why it's not signposted in Abbeyleix.

As for avoidance routes, this is my M50 dodge. If anyone knows better let me know (I'm not that familiar with Dublin western suburbs). When the whole M8 is put into googlemaps I can add the one above.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=106274318990260034621.00048c88353350d178562

The toll for the M8 is €1.80.

If the detour adds 20Kms to your journey (and I may be taking that up wrong) then the cost of fuel for your detour is:
20KM @ 6l/100KM = 1.2 litres of petrol
1.2l @ €1.30/l = €1.56 worth of petrol

Total saving €0.24


Then...
-Add in the additional depreciation suffered by your car by adding 20Km to your journey (nearly 30,000 additional kms over 3 years if you travel that route both ways, 5 days per week, 48 weeks per year).
-Add in the additional wear and tear on your car and additional servicing costs by adding 30,000Kms to your car (that's probably 6 extra tyres and 2 extra services over the 3 years - hundreds of Euro).
-Add in the reduced quality of life by adding 20mins to your journey each way every day (you're losing 160 hours per year).


Again, just playing devil's advocate, and not meaning to point the spotlight directly at you, but I always wonder when people say they won't travel on a road because of a toll - if they actually do the sums it probably costs them more to avoid it and the only benefit to them is the righteous feeling that they've stuck it to "the man".

shedweller

Chris, your point about the "saving" is well put and numbers can't be argued with. However, its the fact that there is a toll there thats the problem. We have been put in a situation where it is a borderline saving at best by taking alternative routes. I thought all our existing taxes paid for roads etc. but it would appear otherwise. Is there that little money coming into the governments coffers that we have to call in a private contractor to build and operate a road? For (more or less) ever? It's the further wage effective cuts we object to by chucking out another week or so wages to pay for a road. The fact that it costs almost more to take an alternative route is designed into the tolled road layout. Otherwise there would be a whole lot more than Biggies taking alternative routes.

I have one other point/question. Chris, your reply to Biggies post is quite one sided. Is it a moderators job to be un biased? Or is it a moderators job to sculpt public opinion?
I'm only asking! Don't kill me!!

-Chris-

shedweller wrote: »

I have one other point/question. Chris, your reply to Biggies post is quite one sided. Is it a moderators job to be un biased? Or is it a moderators job to sculpt public opinion?
I'm only asking! Don't kill me!!

When I post in bold I'm posting as a mod, otherwise I'm just participating in the community like everyone else.
Mods are far more like referees than managers, we're just here to keep things civil and legal and do a bit of tidy up every now and again.


Also, I'm just posing the question - I'm no more in favour of tolls than anyone else, and there is a point of equilibrium where I too will think it's better to avoid the tolls than pay them, but in the meantime I'm willing to pay for the convenience & speed that our improved road network affords me.

monkeypants

I'm living in north county Dublin and I'm out of work. Yesterday I went down to Cork for an interview. Cost me €13.40 in tolls, plus I put €75 of petrol into the motor.

When the tolled motorways were built, they were outrageously bad value public private partnerships and the toll was allowed for the private companies to recoup their money plus sackloads of profit. Since the M50 has been in place a long time, the Doyle group has made their money back many times over and then sold the bridge back to the state at the top of the market. The road belongs to the taxpayer and we have paid handsomely for it, where's the justification for another toll?

alcyst

I'm tired of all the toll being concentrated on 1 small segment of the M50. From the toll point to the M1 end is 12km, the distance from the toll point to the M11 end is 26km, that is twice the distance for no cost/no extra cost.
A toll point around exit 14 would make a lot of sense.

marno21

alcyst wrote: »

I'm tired of all the toll being concentrated on 1 small segment of the M50. From the toll point to the M1 end is 12km, the distance from the toll point to the M11 end is 26km, that is twice the distance for no cost/no extra cost.
A toll point around exit 14 would make a lot of sense.

Or perhaps no toll at all.

The toll is on the Westlink bridge as it's one of the busiest parts of the motorway and thus would have a large income stream. It was also a large piece of infrastructure, thus costly to build and needed paying back for.

I'd much rather if interurbans such as the M9/M11 were tolled than the M50, the N18 in Limerick and the N25 in Waterford. The point of these ringroads is to bring as much traffic as possible out of the cities, in Limerick it would be nice if the traffic mess was cleared out of the city and into the tunnel.

Look at the N40/tunnel in Cork, over-capacity. Success.

biko

Zombie thread lock.