Have you been asked about the home protection bill and firearms

guns4fun

J ust wondering if any of you guys have been asked by friends or other whether or not they can get a firearm for home protection???
I have been asked this 6 times in the last week by pepole who think that because of the new bill they are allowed to shoot an intruder.
ANYWAY THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS NO you cannot get a firearm for the sole use of protection.
Some people have even said to me (well you're ok you have a gun) bs.
Its only a matter of time before it crops up here so I will answer for those who might ask.

You can only own a gun for hunting/pest control/clay or target shooting sports. you cannot own one for any other reason so don't ask.
You also have to prove the reason why you want it and satisfy you local super that you have a good reason for owning a gun.

hope that clears things up for some.

bunny shooter

But will this be used as a further excuse to restrict firearm ownership? :eek:

Any excuse will do Ahearn

guns4fun

bunny shooter wrote: »

But will this be used as a further excuse to restrict firearm ownership? :eek:

possibly it might be used,so might the shooting in dublin last night where your man used 2 guns at once dual weilding it's called,,must have thought he was Lara Croft

bunny shooter

guns4fun you think I am joking?

I don't know how many times lads who no longer have pistols told me "they" couldn't ban pistols :rolleyes:

guns4fun

bunny shooter wrote: »

guns4fun you think I am joking?

I don't know how many times lads who no longer have pistols told me "they" couldn't ban pistols :rolleyes:

I agree,,just wait till a stolen gun is used in a crime,then we have all had it.
Mr Ahern is anti gun ownership and use any excuse to tighten up even more

bunny shooter

guns4fun wrote: »

I agree,,just wait till a stolen gun is used in a crime,then we have all had it.
Mr Ahern is anti gun ownership and use any excuse to tighten up even more

If firearm sales rise in the near future, which is very unlikely, realistically, what do ya reckon Ahearn will attribute it to people getting firearms for home defence :rolleyes:

johngalway

They're seeing this nonsense on other shooting forums outside of Ireland as well. People reading a red top rag headline and sticking up a thread that the Irish are now allowed to shoot people.

Sporting firearms are just that, used for sport and nothing else.

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

They're seeing this nonsense on other shooting forums outside of Ireland as well. People reading a red top rag headline and sticking up a thread that the Irish are now allowed to shoot people.

Sporting firearms are just that, used for sport and nothing else.

The only thing a tabloid is of any use for is.........If one runs low on bog roll

I never buy them.
They are aimed "I kid you not" at a person with he reading ability of an average 8 year old.

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

......They are aimed "I kid you not" at a person with he reading ability of an average 8 year old.

You'll be able for them next year so

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

You'll be able for them next year so

Hardy har har!

You got me!

daveob007

Its amazing how the word defend suddenly translates to the word shoot.

I have heard the same crap a few times about how we are now allowed to shoot anyone who is on our property,,,some people watch too much c.s.i.

I do however think that we should be allowed to use non lethal methods of defence in our daily lives,,such as pepper spray,stun guns etc, under licence.

foxer 204

imo you shouldn`t be allowed shoot anyone , because if you can in "extreme circumstances" shoot someone to protect yourself then the people coming into your home will bring guns [to protect themselves] or at least could act with increased aggression when confronted , and increased aggression causes "extreme circumstances" i just think its a bad road to go down , and it won`t be too long before guns are even more complicated to get a hold of for the people who want and know how to use them correctly ,

bullets

To answer the OP's Question. Shockingly YES!
I have been asked about getting guns for protection
now that there is a new bill.

I was at lunch when one of the guys I worked with asked
me out of the blue where he would pick up an ol "hand gun"
for protection now that the laws had been changed.
(Oblivious to the fact of that the same politician decided to ban handguns)

His opinion was the city folks may not need one
as the Gardai were about but out in the country side where the gardai may not be able to make it out "in time" then.....they should have guns to protect themselves. :eek::eek:

No amount of sane reasoning worked on said co-worker.

I wont go into the details of the conversation that followed,
like you cant licence a firearm for personal protection as they are only licenced for hunting and target shooting etc etc etc but not for blowing holes in burglars .


~B

rowa

yes you can't have a firearm for personal protection under the law , just ask ben dunne , don tidey , gerry adams ...............or any off duty detective.

Grizzly 45

Or Austin Currie.:P
Thing is this legislation is Aherne being a blow hard,trying to show" he is tough on crime".Going onto slightly OT terrain here,he has given us a "right" to defend ourslves in our castles,but has effectively removed the most viable tools to do the job properly.As he doesnt want a" US style gun culture here".:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Sort of like saying "Sure you can have a car you can tax it and insure it and "drive "it.But no engine as speeding causes road accidents,so to prevent road deaths the engine is illegal for driving purposes."

So what do we gain?Sweet FA!
The bleeding hearts can bemoan the fact that criminals will be massacred by the dozen from the newly armed Irish pouplance:rolleyes:.
The criminals will proably to even the score with this proably tool up for any old job now,as being criminals they will have a ready access to illegal firepower.
Dermo can bask in the glory heaped upon him by his flunkies and courtesans as being Mr tough guy crime fighter.
:rolleyes:
The rest of us.Well we can defend ourselves without retreating.But with what and how?The more things change.....

dCorbus

This has indeed come up in conversation - unfortunately.
Some people seem to think that Dermot has decided we now live in Texas - Next he'll be making concealed carry compulsary for all adults over the age of 21 on the Voting Register in order to reduce the crime rate!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

whether or not they can get a firearm for home protection???

Only one answer to this one: No, Nyet, Nein, Nil, Nope.

I worry about the sanity of many out there in the "real world":rolleyes::D
From some of the comments i've heard from joe public (personally and in the media) - you'd think some people are actually salivating over the perchance visit from a burglar!

Insanity.

meathstevie

Folks, to the best of my understanding the legislation that has been enacted is nothing but an old common law concept that states that an individual is allowed to use any amount of reasonable and proportianate force in defence of life and hearth...whether that happens to be a punch, a kick, a stab with a kitchen knife or the bottom barrel of a legally held over and under is irrelevant. In the end it will still be a court that decides whether the force used was reasonable and proportianate at the time. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the right to have firearms for selfdefence purposes which does not exist as such in Irish law.

Dr_Teeth

One good thing is the idea of removing of ability of the burglar or his family to sue you if your actions were justified. But apart from that, the proposed legislation changes nothing.

We have always had the right to employ whatever tools were to hand (whether a knife a hurley or a firearm) in a legitimate act of self-defence.

However, obviously a firearm cannot be licensed for self-defence, and it must be unloaded and securely stored when not in use. In the aftermath of a shooting, if you couldn't satisfactorily explain how the firearm came to be loaded and in your hands, you would be charged with multiple weapons offences I reckon.

meathstevie

Dr_Teeth wrote: »

One good thing is the idea of removing of ability of the burglar or his family to sue you if your actions were justified. But apart from that, the proposed legislation changes nothing.

We have always had the right to employ whatever tools were to hand (whether a knife a hurley or a firearm) in a legitimate act of self-defence.

However, obviously a firearm cannot be licensed for self-defence, and it must be unloaded and securely stored when not in use. In the aftermath of a shooting, if you couldn't satisfactorily explain how the firearm came to be loaded and in your hands, you would be charged with multiple weapons offences I reckon.

No point speculating about that...if such a scenario happens it'll be a court that decides. Any amount of charges can be laid or allegations made but it'll still be the court that decides over guilt or innocence.

Grizzly 45

Got it in one MS!Apart from making the homeowner litigation proof against injury by the criminal,and getting rid of the retreat requirement.[DUH!!!]
There is no change in the reasonable and proportinate force issue.

dCorbus

One point: It's a Bill, still not an Act yet - so has not been enacted nor is it law yet.

We have always had the right to employ whatever tools were to hand (whether a knife a hurley or a firearm) in a legitimate act of self-defence

Not exactly true. First of all you'd have to have no other means of escape from the premises, secondly, a firearm was rarely if ever considered to be a legimate tool of defence, and the response had to have been proportionate and reasonable, e.g. someone comes at you with their fists, you cannot hit them with a hurley or baseball bat, someone comes at you with a knife, you cannot shoot them (obviously). There's a lot more law involved in this area - and manslaughter would probably be the minimum charge you'd be looking at if you killed a burglar TBH. What will happen under the new legislation (if and when it's enacted) is anyones guess.

Although, frankly this whole topic has IMHO absolutely NOTHING to do with shooting sports in Ireland and should probably be moved to politics or somewhere else (Oooops, is that me backseat modding again?:o:rolleyes:).

In the aftermath of a shooting, if you couldn't satisfactorily explain how the firearm came to be loaded and in your hands, you would be charged with multiple weapons offences I reckon.

Major +1 on that - Try explaining how you got your firearm out of the gunsafe, got your bolt out of its hideyhole, got your ammunition out of the cabinet, put it together, loaded, and fired - whilst maintaining that you were so "terrified" you had no other options left to you, had no means of escape, and how you had the time to do all this.....TBH Manslaughter would be the least of ones worries, I'd reckon.

making the homeowner litigation proof against injury by the criminal

That's the one welcome part of it. But I have to agree with the earlier poster that this piece of ill-considered legislation (surprise, surprise) will probably do nothing to prevent crime and will potentially make homeowners more vulnerable by "upping the ante" and giving scumbags a "reason" to come prepared and "tooled up" (as they might so eloquently put it in da fillums).

my particular €0.04 worth (it's a wee bit more than tuppence! )

Tackleberrywho

doberman Sorted

Grizzly 45

Major +1 on that - Try explaining how you got your firearm out of the gunsafe, got your bolt out of its hideyhole, got your ammunition out of the cabinet, put it together, loaded, and fired - whilst maintaining that you were so "terrified" you had no other options left to you, had no means of escape, and how you had the time to do all this.....TBH Manslaughter would be the least of ones worries, I'd reckon.

No law says you cant be" cleaning" it in your bedroom in bed at 3AM.:D:D
You dont have to" escape" anymore.Anyway,in a normal house,what are you going to do ?climb up on the roof and fly off it??

Doberman.Good if trained properly. Rottweiler not as smart as the Dobie.ROXER [RottieX Boxer]
THE BEST

dCorbus

What you really really need here are some sharks with laser beams attached to their heads!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw

(full credit to ezridax for this)

Tackleberrywho

remains of intruders prosecuted

dCorbus

Major tongue in cheek sarcasm.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D

(For the avoidance of any misunderstanding)

Sparks

Lads, I'm not saying don't discuss this, but I am saying don't discuss this here.

There's a Politics forum on boards.ie that's designed for this, as well as a Legal Discussion forum which would be perfect for discussing the finer points of the relevant law. But this is a sports forum, so while the OP wasn't in breach of the charter, it was standing with its toes touching that line, and we've already had a permanent ban over this in the last fortnight. Talking about what people asked about what you can do with a firearm, that's okay; talking about the bill itself or the use of firearms in self defence isn't. That's been in the forum charter since day one.

In the meantime, the bill is being talked about in this Politics forum thread and this Legal Discussion thread (though frankly it started off badly), and even over in Accommodation&Property. Read you there...

Grizzly 45

BEWARE OF THE SHOTGUN !:p
[with your choice of shotgun profile under it]

Before the Roxer.I had a brilliant alarm system,a Jack Russell and a Great Dane.The JR would be the alert one and do all the yapping.No one took that seriously, until his big pal came around the corner.
Most people thought twice about getting out of their car when there is a dog standing on all four paws looking in the window at you, at your eye level.:eek: Trouble is the Giant breeds[Danes,wolfhound,Mastiff] are not known for longevity.You are lucky to get ten years from them,and when they go downhill ,they go fast.Of all the dogs I had I miss those two the most.:(:(:(.

marlin vs

guns4fun wrote: »

J ust wondering if any of you guys have been asked by friends or other whether or not they can get a firearm for home protection???
I have been asked this 6 times in the last week by pepole who think that because of the new bill they are allowed to shoot an intruder.
ANYWAY THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS NO you cannot get a firearm for the sole use of protection.
Some people have even said to me (well you're ok you have a gun) bs.
Its only a matter of time before it crops up here so I will answer for those who might ask.

You can only own a gun for hunting/pest control/clay or target shooting sports. you cannot own one for any other reason so don't ask.
You also have to prove the reason why you want it and satisfy you local super that you have a good reason for owning a gun

hope that clears things up for some.

No I haven't been asked that question.

rowa

its easy to say what you would and wouldn't do here , but you have to remember the consequences of your actions , you shoot an intruder/burgular and are no longer liable to be sued for damage's , fine , but the irish scumbag normally comes from a large family and they might decide to take their own brand of revenge on your family, home, business etc , this can be seen in the horrible carry on in limerick with the collins family .

4gun

The new law entitles to use force to stand your ground within your home? is this not correct? in the event of an intruder,
my understanding of the old law was you had to prove you had no option and were only entitled to leathal force because you had no alternative ie. you were cornered
If you are now entitled to "defend your home" can you not be suitably equiped... a shot gun or rifle is to dangerous to other occupants in the house or in the case of some elderly person too unwieldy..might this not by its very existance deter attacks on the isolated elderly who may now be well with in their rights to stop some one coming on to their property by way of deadly force...

God forbid

Sparks

Seriously folks, you're outside the charter when you get into the whole self-defence area in here. Take it to the threads mentioned above, don't bring it in here please. Otherwise we'll have to delete or move the posts.

Grizzly 45

rowa wrote: »

, but the irish scumbag normally comes from a large family and they might decide to take their own brand of revenge on your family, home, business etc , this can be seen in the horrible carry on in limerick with the collins family .

OTOH Padrig Nally is alive and well and going about his busisness.

Sparks

...and we're done. Thread closed.