Was the original Xbox killed off too early?

Schorpio

Just thought I'd start this thread to get the boards opinion on this. The other day I fancied playing a bit of RalliSport Challenge 2, so naturally enough, I fired up the 360. Turns out it's one of the (many!) games in my original Xbox collection that won't play on the 360. So, after a year of not being used pretty much at all, I fired up my original Xbox. Turns out I had forgotten how good RalliSport Challenge looked! Nowdays I have my 360 hooked up to my HDTV via HDMI, and don't get my wrong, I'm not saying that the original Xbox can match the 360 graphically, but some of the original Xbox games look way better than I remembered them to! I had fallen into this trap where I presumed that HD was best and everything that came before it was sh*t!

I fired up some ps2 games after a bit and they graphical detail produced by the ps2 was noticeably worse than the xbox. Now, I know that the Xbox was more powerful than the ps2, and it had a MUCH shorter lifespan than the ps2 - so was the Xbox killed off before it had reached it's full graphical potenital?

When you consider this - the ps2 was released (in Ireland) in November 2000 and the ps3 was released in March 2007. This gives the ps2 an effective dedicated lifespan of roughly 6.5 years. By comparison, the Xbox was released in March 2002 and the 360 was released in December 2005. This gives the Xbox a dedicated lifespan of only 3.5 years (roughly). Almost half the lifespan! And the ps2 is still being manufactured and new games being released. Manufacturing of the original Xbox ended in 2006, followed quickly by production of games.

The Xbox's late entry into the marketplace too meant that cross-platform games were usually developed for the Playstation and ported across to the Xbox. A lot of games for the Xbox were cross-platform. This meant that the Xbox (although a more powerful console) was limited by the power of the Playstation. It was left to dedicated Xbox games to use the console's full capabilities.

Now, I'm not criticizing Microsoft for releasing the 360 when they did. From a business perspective, it was probably the right thing to do. The ps2 had reached it's peak and game designers could do no more with the system. With an impending ps3 on the cards, it made sense to beat Sony to the marketplace. However, did this mean the the Xbox was killed when it had more to give?

I think yes. I think had Microsoft come to the marketplace a year earlier, and released a 'slim' Xbox about halfway through it's lifespan, it would have put up a much stiffer challenge to the ps2. With games that looked as good as Halo 2 and RalliSport Challenge 2 (and many more!) gamers would have been happy to have stuck with the Xbox for another year. The 360 would still have beaten the ps3 to the marketplace and would probably not suffer from the RROD problem because of the extra development time. The ps3 was a mess on launch too, so my guess is that Microsoft would have easily outsold the ps3.

That's all ifs and buts though and it's very easy for me to say what I think should have been done because I have the benefit of foresight. In reality I don't think a slim Xbox was ever on the cards for Microsoft. This definitely shot them in the foot in the Japanese market, where the Xbox's bulky design was despised. Even with the 360, Microsoft are only introducing a redesigned slim model now, long after Sony slimmed down the ps3. Bearing in mind that the ps3 was released a year and a half after the 360, that's just ridiculous on the part of Microsoft. Nevermind the fact that the 360's technical issues meant a complete redesign should have been on the cards years ago.

So, yeah I think Microsoft had a great console in the first Xbox and I think they pushed the 360 too soon. I think the Xbox was on the brink of being THE console of it's generation, but MS switched their focus to the 360 too soon. I'm interested to hear what opinions everyone else has!

PS - no I'm not an Xbox fanboy. I think the ps2 was a wonderful console too, I'm just looking at this from an Xbox perspective.

Oafley Jones

The xbox was killed because MS couldn't get the costs down. It had 13 revisions and yet they still never managed to make a profit from the hardware. It was this obsession with cost per unit that also led to a lot of the initial problems with the 360, the machine was designed with the requirement that it should be profitable within 2 years of launch and as such was designed to a price. As we know now corners were cut and MS incurred that huge write down. The other major factor in all of this of couse was that MS wanted to get a jump on the competition and be first to market, given their marketshare today - and despite all the problems - you have to say it was a good move.

Schorpio

Schorpio wrote: »

I'm not criticizing Microsoft for releasing the 360 when they did. From a business perspective, it was probably the right thing to do.

No, I agree that from Microsoft's perspective, releasing the 360 when they did was probably the right thing to do. I'm really only looking at this from a gamer's perspective (which I know is being naive because MS are only in this business to make money after all). Yeah, it's true that MS were making losses on the hardware, but then again so was Sony when the PS2 was released. Let's remember that for most people, the PS2 was their first DVD player. Dedicated DVD players were far more expensive than the PS2 back then. Sony took a big financial hit when the PS2 launched. (Let's remember than Sega choose to leave out a DVD drive from the Dreamcast because of the expense, and many people believe that had the Dreamcast had DVD playing functionality, it would have sold a lot better than it did). But nowdays Sony are still selling PS2's and making a mint from the same hardware. And they have done the same again with the PS3 and blu-ray. MS were too obsessed with short-term profits rather than putting the gamers first. The release of Xbox games halted almost overnight because they wanted to force people to the 360. A poorly-made 360 at that.

amacachi

Oafley Jones wrote: »

The other major factor in all of this of couse was that MS wanted to get a jump on the competition and be first to market, given their marketshare today - and despite all the problems - you have to say it was a good move.

That's the key right there. If ya look at how long the PS3 took to gain momentum due to price and the high quality games still being on PS2 for a year or 18 months after the PS3's launch it's hard to criticise MS. If I'd had an original Xbox I'm sure I'd be annoyed about it being discontinued when it was, but it was a good move from MS's point of view.

Oafley Jones

Schorpio wrote: »

But nowdays Sony are still selling PS2's and making a mint from the same hardware. And they have done the same again with the PS3 and blu-ray. MS were too obsessed with short-term profits rather than putting the gamers first. The release of Xbox games halted almost overnight because they wanted to force people to the 360. A poorly-made 360 at that.

Surely, you mean long term profits? I'm not exactly following what your point is.

Grumpypants

I still have my original xbox it was an still is a good machine its just a media streamer downstairs now though

Schorpio

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Surely, you mean long term profits? I'm not exactly following what your point is.

My point is that is you owned an Xbox then the 360 was almost forced upon you. It wasn't fair on Xbox owners to cut short the lifespan of the console when it had more to give and people had invested their hard-earned in it. It's only my opinion anyway. MS did a good job from a business point of view. I remember being annoyed when the 360 came out, but I still bought one! (total hypocrite i know ) I was just reminded recently of how good the original was and how I would have liked to have seen it get even better.

Oafley Jones

Schorpio wrote: »

My point is that is you owned an Xbox then the 360 was almost forced upon you. It wasn't fair on Xbox owners to cut short the lifespan of the console when it had more to give and people had invested their hard-earned in it. It's only my opinion anyway. MS did a good job from a business point of view. I remember being annoyed when the 360 came out, but I still bought one! (total hypocrite i know ) I was just reminded recently of how good the original was and how I would have liked to have seen it get even better.

Nobody forced anything on anyone. If the original console had done PS2 numbers you can be sure that it would have had a larger degree of support by developers after the 360s launch; but it didn't, it was too late to market and just wasn't getting the traction required especially in Asia. Where the console succeeded was in bringing the brand to peoples attention, that MS were now a player in the hugely competitive console field and laying down the groundwork for Live.

Your perspective is kinda from the glass half empty school of thought, to think of another way... What would have been the fallout for launching a slim version of the xbox and delaying the 360 18-24 months? Would that have lead to substantially increased sales for xbox? How much would the 360 suffered from not having first mover advantage if it launched after PS3? If the fallout had been x360 doing xbox numbers would MS have stayed in the hugely costly market?

Schorpio

Good point. A slim version of the xbox would probably have boosted sales in Asia, but it was too late by then as Sony had Asia pretty all wrapped up to itself. I don't think MS would ever have launched the 360 after the ps3. Even if they had brought out a slim Xbox, MS has enough resources to have had the development of the 360 going in the background while the slim was being developed. Had the 360 then been delayed a year, MS wouldn't have had the market share it did have when the ps3 came out, but it would have had a six month advantage and I reckon it would still be the dominant of the two. Plus, extra development time for the 360 might have meant more reliable 360's.

That's all pretty much speculation though. As it is, MS did a good job of becoming a dominant force with the 360 - although Sony has done a good job of playing catch-up lately.

o1s1n

My main issue with the original Xbox is the sheer lack of good exclusive titles. They just weren't there.

I recently had the luck of seeing Steel Batallion in action. Visually it was a very impressive game. If they could have stuck to the exclusives to show off the machines power rather than just porting multi platform titles it would have been a much more interesting console.

jesus_thats_gre

I still love the original controller! Wish they kept that as an option for the 360.

Seifer

Kung Fu Chaos is one of the best games of all time and it's a crime that they did not port it to the 360.
That is all.

Schorpio

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I still love the original controller! Wish they kept that as an option for the 360.

yeah, i agree it would have been handy - but I prefer the 360 controller! A lot of original xbox games don't work on the 360 and they don't seem to be working on backwards compatibility anymore.

jesus_thats_gre

It was perfect for FPS games in my opinion. By far the best console solution.

o1s1n

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It was perfect for FPS games in my opinion. By far the best console solution.

The best console solution for FPS was the Dreamcast keyboard and mouse

This whole 360 non backwards compatability thing is a joke. I really want to play Panzer Dragoon Orta but the PAL version crashes on level 3

Schorpio

o1s1n wrote: »

This whole 360 non backwards compatability thing is a joke. I really want to play Panzer Dragoon Orta but the PAL version crashes on level 3

+1

Out of my (extensive) library of Xbox games, the best/ones I want to play either don't work, or crash at some point! It's a joke, and they aren't even working on backwards compatibility anymore.

ironictoaster

Yeah, even the games on the backwards compat list are glitchy. I got thief 3 other day, you can see through walls on the 360.

It was shame to see the original xbox go early, great console. Still going well in the hacking community.

Bowel Cancer

Nice post OP. You are right about that Rallisport 2. Stunning looking game for it's time and a beauty to play. At the time I would agree that they killed it off too earlier but now that I have a job and plenty of money I'd be happy if they released a new xbox every year.

Schorpio

Cheers. I know what you mean. At the time I was annoyed at Microsoft because I had bought an Xbox not long after the release date, despite the fact that all my friends had ps2's. I felt that the console had more to give (and I still think it did) but don't think anyone can deny that Microsoft's 360 strategy was well planned. A lot of people had had a ps1 and a ps2, and were set on getting a ps3, but by coming to the marketplace so early, MS managed to get a lot of these people onto the 360. It's just a pity from the point of the Xbox.

As for Rallisport 2, yeah I had completely forgotten how good it was. One of the finest rally games on the noughties!

I think MS missed a trick too with media center capabilities of the Xbox. The popularity of XBMC proved there was a market there, and had they released an installable media center for the Xbox, I reckon they would have had a boost in sales from non-gamers buying the console just for it's media center capabilities. Of course, people would always argue that XBMC was the better option, but we all know there are people out there who would prefer to pay a few euro for something rather than go to the hassle of softmodding and FTPing.

Karmafaerie

I miss Machassault Lone Wolf so much!!!:(

hightower1

Schorpio wrote: »

This definitely shot them in the foot in the Japanese market, where the Xbox's bulky design was despised.

It wasnt really the design but the brand that the Japs dont like. They are very closed minded when it comes to buying anything made outside Asia.
You cant sell an american car there for any money and its the same with electronics. They simply dont like American brands and MS is one of the biggest.

Noobsaibot21

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I still love the original controller! Wish they kept that as an option for the 360.

You can. Refering to my previous post last year, I got this in conjunction with the other stuff and it works perfectly without any lag or anything. Only downside is there's no headset support but who wants to listen to american 12 year olds anyway?

Wez

Anyone converted their Xbox 1 to HD yet? I can't find a cable locally to do it (component) but aparrently you can convert it to an NTSC console and only then can you use 1080. If they'd made this standard for all regions, maybe they coulda dragged it's lifespan out.

But I do agree Xbox1 > PS2, and I was never a fan of Xbox 1's when they were on sale only now that I've seen what can be done with them. If they made a slim, they coulda had a fresh round of sales, before the 360 entered the market. I modded a PS2 with FMCBoot and you can output VGA, HD etc. I only did it because of how easily you can install it in a car/boat or whatever and run it off 12v.

Even if it was easy enough to power the Xbox 1 off 12v, it's still MASSIVE!!

super_furry

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I miss Machassault Lone Wolf so much!!!:(

That was an amazing game. Loved logging in each day to see how the war was going and where you were needed most.