Dairy Shorthorn cows??

bealaha

i recently heard of some dairy shorthorns calves that a friend has are for sale. i was just wonderin does anyone hear have any knowledge or experience of these animals in dairy herds. like whats are the pros and cons of these cows and would they bring any advantages to a herd of mainly holstein-friesians that i have.

LostCovey

bealaha wrote: »

i recently heard of some dairy shorthorns calves that a friend has are for sale. i was just wonderin does anyone hear have any knowledge or experience of these animals in dairy herds. like whats are the pros and cons of these cows and would they bring any advantages to a herd of mainly holstein-friesians that i have.

Hi bealaha,

To be honest I don't think the breed ever really recovered from the disastrous initiative to make them 'dual purpose' about forty years ago. They ended up like most multipurpose things - not doing either thing well. They wouldn't be considered as either a premium beef or dairy breed now, and the dairy shorthorn was a superb breed.

However I do think that Shorthorns are a good low-maintenance option if you are working on a low-inputs grass-based system with an extended grazing season, but in terms of productivity in an easily kept breed with good feet and longevity, you might be better looking at British Friesian or Montbeliarde.

Just my tuppence worth, I would be interested top hear what others think of the potential for Shorthorns in the dairy herd.

LostCovey

bealaha

thanks for the info lost covey,
already after goin d montbelarde route about 6-7 yrs ago, crossed them onto the HFs , found them to have great fertility and still hav a gud few of them stil in d herd, but a negative for them was that i found they have quite poor feet, also some of them can be very big,
with d past 3 yrs we hav been tryin a gud few of d kiwi-friesians from eurogene, so it will be interestin to see how these fair out next spring wen d first of em calve down.

LostCovey

bealaha wrote: »

thanks for the info lost covey,
already after goin d montbelarde route about 6-7 yrs ago, crossed them onto the HFs , found them to have great fertility and still hav a gud few of them stil in d herd, but a negative for them was that i found they have quite poor feet, also some of them can be very big,
with d past 3 yrs we hav been tryin a gud few of d kiwi-friesians from eurogene, so it will be interestin to see how these fair out next spring wen d first of em calve down.

Disappointed to hear about the poor feet, the opposite to what I would have expected. However I have never kept them but a friend has and is moving into more and more of them. Might depend on the ground and roads you have.

LC

denis086

In relation to the mount beliardes we have problems with their feet also we had very good feet in our herd and we didnt buy in that many cows if any we bought these in a few years ago and they brought a disease into the herd that rots the hoof and we run them through a foot bath every so often to help prevent it. its terrible when a cow gets it you can smell it when your walking along side the cow and its noot very comfortable for the cow. We also found there teats and udder awkward for milking they hang down alot on young cows and rub and make it awkward for them to walk even and the teats are huge and slow to put clusters on and as a result it slows up the whole operation
Moral of the story dont buy in cows and have a stock bull that you know where it came from and look at the mother cant go too far wrong

LostCovey

denis086 wrote: »

In relation to the mount beliardes we have problems with their feet also we had very good feet in our herd and we didnt buy in that many cows if any we bought these in a few years ago and they brought a disease into the herd that rots the hoof and we run them through a foot bath every so often to help prevent it. its terrible when a cow gets it you can smell it when your walking along side the cow and its noot very comfortable for the cow. We also found there teats and udder awkward for milking they hang down alot on young cows and rub and make it awkward for them to walk even and the teats are huge and slow to put clusters on and as a result it slows up the whole operation
Moral of the story dont buy in cows and have a stock bull that you know where it came from and look at the mother cant go too far wrong

Do you think this was a breed problem Denis, or just bad luck that you bought in an animal with a contagious foot problem and it spread?

LostCovey

Min

I have Montbeliarde cross dairy cows, no problem with feet, very healthy udders and fertile.
Only complaint is they have a longer gestation period than most other cattle, thats my experience.

whelan1

denis086 wrote: »

In relation to the mount beliardes we have problems with their feet also we had very good feet in our herd and we didnt buy in that many cows if any we bought these in a few years ago and they brought a disease into the herd that rots the hoof and we run them through a foot bath every so often to help prevent it. its terrible when a cow gets it you can smell it when your walking along side the cow and its noot very comfortable for the cow. We also found there teats and udder awkward for milking they hang down alot on young cows and rub and make it awkward for them to walk even and the teats are huge and slow to put clusters on and as a result it slows up the whole operation
Moral of the story dont buy in cows and have a stock bull that you know where it came from and look at the mother cant go too far wrong

sounds like mortellaro ... we have that too:mad: whats there temperment like?

snowman707

Min wrote: »

I have Montbeliarde cross dairy cows, no problem with feet, very healthy udders and fertile.
.

ditto here,

but we paid well for our foundation stock which we imported,

denis086

LostCovey wrote: »

Do you think this was a breed problem Denis, or just bad luck that you bought in an animal with a contagious foot problem and it spread?

LostCovey

i think in our case it was just bad luck that we got the cows from a herd that had the problem and i spread we had 6 originally and we only have 3 now after only a few years but as a whole we werent impressed by the breed and have gone back to british friesian

(sorry i dont know how to insert multiple posts on this forum but this is to answer whelan1) In regard to temperment theyre stubborn when handling and milking when your putting them in the crush theyre the ones that will stop half way up or will turn when your facing them in or make a burst out through the people facing them in. When were milking them then they will nearly always be in the last 2 lots and you could be talking to the wall you have to go out into the yard and coax them into the parlour while even our lame ones will limp into the parlour under their own steam :mad: Were quite lucky in that the rest of our herd are very quiet herd and even the vets comment on how its a pleasure to do the testing with our cows but thats only most of our cows we have a few saucy british friesians who think theyre clever too :rolleyes:

djmc

Dont have any shorthorns but I have a lot of other dairy breeds.
I think american breed dairy shorthorns might be ok where they milk a few thousand cows in parts of us and canada they would weed out the bad ones fairly quick the best would be used for AI.
I would ask him what straws he has used and if he has milk recording records to see what there milking and try a few that have a good mother and off an ai bull.
They are supposed to be a quite enough breed

irishh_bob

LostCovey wrote: »

Hi bealaha,

To be honest I don't think the breed ever really recovered from the disastrous initiative to make them 'dual purpose' about forty years ago. They ended up like most multipurpose things - not doing either thing well. They wouldn't be considered as either a premium beef or dairy breed now, and the dairy shorthorn was a superb breed.

However I do think that Shorthorns are a good low-maintenance option if you are working on a low-inputs grass-based system with an extended grazing season, but in terms of productivity in an easily kept breed with good feet and longevity, you might be better looking at British Friesian or Montbeliarde.

Just my tuppence worth, I would be interested top hear what others think of the potential for Shorthorn
s in the dairy herd.

LostCovey

agree with everything in this post , they are really only suited to a low cost system and even then they are inferior to jersey in terms of solids , the only people i know who keep them are those who have a fondness for the breed , anything they can do , thier is some other breed that can do a whole lot better

irishh_bob

LostCovey wrote: »

Disappointed to hear about the poor feet, the opposite to what I would have expected. However I have never kept them but a friend has and is moving into more and more of them. Might depend on the ground and roads you have.

LC

montbeliarde are known for having feet problems , poor udders and a difficult temprement , my opinion of them is that thier bullocks who give a bit of milk

Sam Kade

irishh_bob wrote: »

montbeliarde are known for having feet problems , poor udders and a difficult temprement , my opinion of them is that thier bullocks who give a bit of milk

LostCovey: but in terms of productivity in an easily kept breed with good feet and longevity, you might be better looking at British Friesian or Montbeliarde.

I thought you said that you agreed with every thing he said in that post Bob? It doesn't seem like it to me.

irishh_bob

Sam Kade wrote: »

LostCovey: but in terms of productivity in an easily kept breed with good feet and longevity, you might be better looking at British Friesian or Montbeliarde.

I thought you said that you agreed with every thing he said in that post Bob? It doesn't seem like it to me.

yes , thank you for pointing that clear contradiction out , i meant to say , agree with everything in relation to shorthorn

Sam Kade

LostCovey wrote: »

However I do think that Shorthorns are a good low-maintenance option if you are working on a low-inputs grass-based system with an extended grazing season, but in terms of productivity in an easily kept breed with good feet and longevity, you might be better looking at British Friesian or Montbeliarde.

Just my tuppence worth, I would be interested top hear what others think of the potential for Shorthorns in the dairy herd.

LostCovey

Shorthorns have excellent longevity and fertility.

John_F

puke,,, a black and white cow was bred for a reason, just as sheds were, now people going backwards with these cows and these outwintering pads, I think the breed is ok if you want looks and heritage, keep your balck and whites bealaha, feed her right and she will deliver

SARAH ANNE

had some shorthorns once excellent all rounder.
i hear people say low cost system is that not what we need with milk 29c a litre!!

red bull

any opinions on crossing montbeliarde cows with dairy shorthorn bull

Tipp Man

We only have 1 shorthorn that we bought in and have been very impressed with her. Good feet and a strong walker, always goes in calf at first attempt and in 5 years has produced 5 excellent heifers. Milk wise she milks just as good as the rest of the herd, although we are on a grass based system so not looking for 2,000 gallon cows.

With regards to Mountbelardies we used them on holstein cows about 8 or 9 years ago and they are an absolute nightmare. Bad temperement in and out of parlour, bad feet (2 going to factory this year dried off because of lameness), bad quality udders. Absolutely massive cows which are a pain in the parlour and they eat about twice as much as normal cows. We will defo never use them again on holstein cows (which we are also moving away from)

However in the last couple of years we have some cows come through which are 25% mountbelarde and they are excellent cows. (Freisan and Kiwi Fr crosses). The bad traits mentioned above are all eliminated. Much better feet, temperment, much smaller, good milkers. Lovely cows overall

Won't be using Mountb's again though

jeff greene

red bull wrote: »

any opinions on crossing montbeliarde cows with dairy shorthorn bull

Have you considered Swedish Red, an impressive dairy breed I think, good type, good milk and good health traits.

djmc

jeff greene wrote: »

Have you considered Swedish Red, an impressive dairy breed I think, good type, good milk and good health traits.

+1 Some of my best milking cows are Swedish red x fr
I have 2 mountbelardes x fr mine are quite and good milkers
Has anyone got any Ayrshires I would think they would be a bit like the swedish red.
I would be slow to use a shorthorn stock bull unless I was very sure of his breeding but would go the ai route on some cows to try out the breed

irishh_bob

one of the problems with the likes of shorthorn , sweedish red or other minority dairy breeds is the tiny gene pool from which you have to fish from , sure you will come across thee odd dinger but the numbers are simply not there to be guarenteed a steady supply of quality genetics year in year out , which is why i believe that apart from holstien - fresian which can cater to all systems ( not just high feed and yield ) , the jersey is the best option when it comes to crossing with an alternative to black and white , jersey are far and away the second most popular dairy breed in the world , they have excellent feet , lovely tight udders , very good fertility , excellent temprement and of course high solids which is thier most renound quality , jersey are becoming more and more popular in this country as a cross so thier also a market for surplus replacements with the breed