'Seeing Sound'

PaulBrewer

I've set up my rig in the bedroom for the moment.

I've got nice monitors , ATC SCM 20s and my Yamaha NS10,000s driven by a Bryston 3b.

I can't hear a feckin' thing.

I havent a clue what's going on below 500hz, just complete guessing.

Does anyone use tools like the PAZ Analyser in Ptools to 'look' at those lower 5 or so octaves and if so how ?

Does it help avoiding the major problems ?

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I havent a clue what's going on below 500hz, just complete guessing.

Bass. Lots of bass.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Bass. Lots of bass.

Ain't that the truth ....

progsound

Get a sub???? I wouldent rely to much on analyser's for mixing although they are usefull sometimes

Rockshamrover

Is that not mad for you, jumping from a pro set up in work to a home set up?

Must be like flying a jumbo jet and then taking out the hang glider.

Good way of testing out plug ins against hardware I suppose.

PaulBrewer

progsound wrote: »

Get a sub???? I wouldent rely to much on analyser's for mixing although they are usefull sometimes

The bass is there ok, suitably pickled by my room !

What's more the ATCs are a sealed box so it's fast bass, no smearing - they sounded fantastic in Peter Maher's Middlewalk Studio but less so in my Duvetwalk Studio.

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

Is that not mad for you, jumping from a pro set up in work to a home set up?

Must be like flying a jumbo jet and then taking out the hang glider.

Good way of testing out plug ins against hardware I suppose.

I haven't owned any recording gear for years ! The opportunity arose to get a HD Rig at a good price. It's great to do the 'administrative' aspects of a recording session without the cost clock ticking.

It's still a Jumbo Jet, just the windows are filthy so I can't see where I'm going ...

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I haven't owned any recording gear for years ! The opportunity arose to get a HD Rig at a good price. It's great to do the 'administrative' aspects of a recording session without the cost clock ticking.

It's still a Jumbo Jet, just the windows are filthy so I can't see where I'm going ...

LOL, turn on the auto pilot;)

So the clock even ticks for your good self? I thought you got to use all that lovely stuff for free.

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

LOL, turn on the auto pilot;)

So the clock even ticks for your good self? I thought you got to use all that lovely stuff for free.

I didn't pay for the 112 Waves Plugins ok

No, I know and appreciate I'm in a privileged position.

However not privileged enough to be able to hear sub 500 Hz anyway straight !

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I didn't pay for the 112 Waves Plugins ok

No, I know and appreciate I'm in a privileged position.

However not privileged enough to be able to hear sub 500 Hz anyway straight !

What about using a really good set of mixing headphones? Just for checking, then back to the NS10,000.

If you ever get tired of those Waves plug ins (are there really that many?) let me know:)

progsound

PaulBrewer wrote: »

The bass is there ok, suitably pickled by my room !

What's more the ATCs are a sealed box so it's fast bass, no smearing - they sounded fantastic in Peter Maher's Middlewalk Studio but less so in my Duvetwalk Studio.

Ah i get ya!!! Hmm i say get yourelf some lengths of 2x1, rockwool and some fabric and have at it

PaulBrewer

progsound wrote: »

Ah i get ya!!! Hmm i say get yourelf some lengths of 2x1, rockwool and some fabric and have at it

Won't get you down much more that 250 Hz I'd guess .

It's below that where the real action is ....

Aridstarling

Rockshamrover wrote: »

What about using a really good set of mixing headphones? Just for checking, then back to the NS10,000.

This seems like a good suggestion. Analysers are unlikely to tell you anything you really can't hear, unless its showing a huge peak and you aren't hearing it, or vice versa. It would want to be pretty sizable though. Top notch headphones would be a better bet.

progsound

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Won't get you down much more that 250 Hz I'd guess .

It's below that where the real action is ....

If you superchunk the corners as well you should be a good better off than when you started, should be good enough for a bedroom setup no?

SonasRec

PAZ analyser not so good IMO

In a recent studio move, we used a combination of 'fuzzmeasure' and the sig gen plug in protools to 'see' what was going on.

With the signal generator, set it to different frequencies below 500Hz and take a listen to what you're room is doing. Sweep down from 500 and you'll hear the real trouble spots.

Fuzzmeasure is an excellent analysis tool.......free demo here http://supermegaultragroovy.com/products/FuzzMeasure/

Superchunks in the corners of the room made a major improvement, along with lots of homemade traps using dense rockwool.

Good info on room modes here: http://www.realtraps.com/art_tuning.htm

eoin5

I think bedrooms and headphones are good partners. Of course years of rented shared semi-d accomodation may have influenced that statement.

dasdog

eoin5 wrote: »

I think bedrooms and headphones are good partners. Of course years of rented shared semi-d accomodation may have influenced that statement.

I sometimes wonder what detrimental effect semi-d's and suburban housing has on what we listen too. Queue the stone roses. Saxophones and similar wind instruments wouldn't be the most popular choice for peoples kids if it's going to annoy the neighbours. Then again built up suburbia does provide an incentive to get out of boredom. I was kind of hoping the thread title would relate to lysergic acid diethylamide but there you go.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i used this to get me somewhere near usable in my room

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

if you want to borrow me meter , let me know - its just a cheap radio shack but it works for the low end .

and the software has a calibration file for the meter I have .

seannash

i was recently told to monitor at low levels because that way the room sound would be minimalised.

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

i was recently told to monitor at low levels because that way the room sound would be minimalised.

That's is true Sean.

However the Fletcher Munson Curve dictates that you actually hear proportionally less bass as volume is reduced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves

You know the 'Loudness' button on a HiFi ?

That was to 'balance' the freq responce so you could listen to music at a low level and still get the 'full picture' ...

dasdog

I think I saw today with my below par monitors. Coils moving an inch either way and no herrumf sound (ear or body). There was a walk to the sugarloaf hiding away in the eq which I'd set earlier.

http://soundcloud.com/dasdog/torimari

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That's is true Sean.

However the Fletcher Munson Curve dictates that you actually hear proportionally less bass as volume is reduced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves

You know the 'Loudness' button on a HiFi ?

That was to 'balance' the freq responce so you could listen to music at a low level and still get the 'full picture' ...

That's true - but you'd account for the difference.

Semi-D box rooms were never designed with acoustics in mind. Especially the cardboard constructions that make up most of the housing stock in Ireland.

All that 500Hz stuff at any kind of volume will make the wall, ceiling and floor cavities sing. The room will resonate like the body of an acoustic guitar. No amount of rock wool might make any difference. Mixing at a lower level will probably be truer to what you've actually got.

I am slowly developing my hearing and mixing skills. I'm a long way from having it down but I'm much more aware of what I'm doing. I have a terrible room. But I've been figuring stuff out by using ****ty speakers, and playback on laptop speakers, all a different volumes to hear what's going on. I won't even attempt to play with sounds with headphones - they're so deceptive, what sounds great on headphones can sound like total muck through speakers. But what sounds good through speakers nearly always sounds just as good through headphones (this doesn't mean the thinny I-pod phones)

My laptop does something funny in the 500 - 1k range. The case starts to sing. It's not actually a bad thing because adds something to the music I'm listening to. Everything has its' acoustic properties.

progsound

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That's is true Sean.

However the Fletcher Munson Curve dictates that you actually hear proportionally less bass as volume is reduced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves

You know the 'Loudness' button on a HiFi ?

That was to 'balance' the freq responce so you could listen to music at a low level and still get the 'full picture' ...

Yup correectamundo i think around the 84 db mark is the average optimal level to monitor at for flatest responce of your ears

progsound

krd wrote: »

. Especially the cardboard constructions that make up most of the housing stock in Ireland.

Actualy if they were built from cardboard you would have far less acoustic problems, the fact that they are solidly constructed gives rise to the problems you face mixing in a bedroom.

krd wrote: »

. No amount of rock wool might make any difference. Mixing at a lower level will probably be truer to what you've actually got.

Mineral wool does in fact make a differance that can be measured and is used to treat professional and hobby studio's the world over. Dont get me wrong a little mineral wool will not turn the acustics of a bedroom into that of a multi million dollar studio but it will make a substantial difference

godfrey

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I havent a clue what's going on below 500hz, just complete guessing.

dude, that better be a typo!!

50hz

g

Rockshamrover

godfrey wrote: »

dude, that better be a typo!!

50hz

g

I saw him in Bono Vox yesterday:D

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

I saw him in Bono Vox yesterday:D

Excuse me , I've never been in Bono Vox ... or he in I !

i57dwun4yb1pt8

godfrey wrote: »

dude, that better be a typo!!

50hz

g

huh ?

a non treated room is dodgy from 500 hz down , never mind 50 hz.

and you an expert an all ;-)