Gay-Bisexual Conflict

Handsome Bob

I recently wrote an article on Brokeback Mountain and I was studying the critical reception of the film for my research. To my amazement, I found that there was quite a heated debate going on over what exactly was the true sexuality of the two leads. Here are some excerpts:

I am unaware of a single review of Brokeback calling the leads what they are—a sad statement on the invisibility of bisexual experience and the level of biphobia in both the mainstream and gay media.

- Amy Andre

"Jack is able to accept a little more willingly that he is inescapably gay,"

- Roger Ebert

"Everyone called it "The Gay Cowboy Movie." Until they saw it. In the end, Ang Lee's 2005 love story wasn't gay or straight, just human."

- Entertanment Weekly

"I don't think Ennis could be labeled as gay. Without Jack Twist, I don't know that he ever would have come out.... I think the whole point was that it was two souls that fell in love with each other."

- Heath Ledger

"[The idea] of Ennis and Jack being anything but gay [is] box office-influenced political correctness intended to steer straight audiences to the film".

- Eric Marcus

Personally, I would be inclined to agree with Ebert, Ledger and EW. I think what Ebert is saying is correct because we do see Jack actively attempt to come on to other men, not to mention paying for sex as well as starting up a relationship with someone else (indicated by his father talking about how Jack was planning on leaving his wife and moving home with another man).

However, I also see the merit in EW's argument. I don't love BM because it's about a gay love story, I love it because I think it's a great story about what it is to be human. As well as for showing us just how damaging the pressures of society can be on all of us.

Finally I think Ledger is also right. Moreso from Ennis's perspective, I don't think the question of sexuality comes into it, I just think it's a story about two people falling in love. They just both happened to be men.

Anyway I digress, I guess I'm just wondering whether any of you have come across this conflict before? Is there a level of hostility between the gay and bisexual community? Please share your stories if you have. And of course, your opinions on the debate of BM are also welcome.

L.Jenkins

Not to reference the entire post, but i have experience as bi with both communities. I was accepted to an extent but any personal issues or relations, i was dismissed on all accounts. This was one experience in the US though.

mrDerek

i thought i was goin to see an action western movie haha i didnt even see any of the trailers just the poster which wud hardly have said 2 men 1 tent

Nevyn

Bisexual erasure happens a lot.
It seems to be assumed that once a man as sex with another man that he is homosexual.
So we have Ennis labeled homosexual when he was married and had children.

The same with Oscar Wilde who had 4 children with his wife and some of his love letters to here were published recently.

Alas it does seems to promote the notion that bisexual people can not be exclusive
which isn't the case but it hight lights the fact that people seem to want to determine a persons sexuality based on who are currently in a relationship with.

stephen_n

Bisexuality is something that is largely unaccepted in either community from my experience except in terms of lip service while waiting for you to realise that your really gay/straight depending on who your talking to.

MultiUmm

stephen_n wrote: »

Bisexuality is something that is largely unaccepted in either community from my experience except in terms of lip service while waiting for you to realise that your really gay/straight depending on who your talking to.

Great picture!

Dr. Baltar

Personally I have found straight people a lot more accepting of my bisexuality than gay people.

Straight people seem to think "alright cool".

But gay people tend to believe that I am actually a homosexual in denial and that I'm not "the real deal". God I hate the scene.

Handsome Bob

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

But gay people tend to believe that I am actually a homosexual in denial and that I'm not "the real deal". God I hate the scene.

Why do you think that is? Do you think they feel somehow personally "insulted" by your sexuality?

ixoy

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Why do you think that is? Do you think they feel somehow personally "insulted" by your sexuality?

It's quite possible that many had to work through accepting their own sexuality. Some of them, along the way, tried to temper both their friend's (but most likely their own) acceptance by thinking that it'd be better for them if they were only half-way there. After all that's not too gay. But eventually they realise they're fully gay so assume that other people are only at a stage they felt they were earlier.

It is of course ridiculous and arrogant to assume that bisexual people are just people whose sexuality is less developed than your own. Just because I may have once thought I liked girls, but realised I didn't later on, doesn't mean that's your story. I mean I don't like pineapples either but I don't assume then that anybody who does is deluding themselves!

A Primal Nut

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Finally I think Ledger is also right. Moreso from Ennis's perspective, I don't think the question of sexuality comes into it, I just think it's a story about two people falling in love. They just both happened to be men.

I haven't seen the film but I disagree with this. Of course sexuality comes into it - people don't just fall in love unless they are sexually attracted oo each other (not necessarily physical attraction). If the film portrayed as any other way its unrealistic, although I wouldn't be surprised if thats what happened. From what I do know of the film, i think its impossible to determine whether they are gay or bisexual, and it seems a pointless argument.

I haven't noticed any resentment from gay people towards bisexuals, because gay people are usually just normal lads/girls who aren't that bothered. But there might be a few who hold that view, but you'll always get extreme elements in any group.

stephen_n

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I haven't seen the film but I disagree with this. Of course sexuality comes into it - people don't just fall in love unless they are sexually attracted oo each other (not necessarily physical attraction). If the film portrayed as any other way its unrealistic, although I wouldn't be surprised if thats what happened. From what I do know of the film, i think its impossible to determine whether they are gay or bisexual, and it seems a pointless argument.

I haven't noticed any resentment from gay people towards bisexuals, because gay people are usually just normal lads/girls who aren't that bothered. But there might be a few who hold that view, but you'll always get extreme elements in any group.

Most commonly asked question of bisexual men by gay men, so are you gay yet! It is sometimes posed as a joke but always has an underlying intent. That would be my experience anyway. I would certainly echo the experience that straight people are much more accepting of it than gay men which I always found ironic.

MultiUmm

Perhaps the animosity that some gay people have comes from the thought that because someone's bisexual, they haven't really fully experienced what it's like to be non-heterosexual? Maybe a chip on the shoulder in a way, thinking bisexuals have it easier than men or women who are attracted to the same gender exclusively.

I admit when I was younger I used to think like that. I thought it would be grand to be bisexual because at least then it would be easier to hide it/ be more accepted by society. Silly way of thinking when I look back on it now.

Dr. Baltar

I know a lot of Bisexual people who will never come out of the closet fully. Homosexuals tend not to want to get into a relationship with bisexuals because "they're greedy and will want to cheat" and straight people often do not want to get into relationships because "they want me to be their cover so that nobody will know that they are fully gay"

Believe me, bisexuality is not "the best of both worlds".

elekid

stephen_n wrote: »

Most commonly asked question of bisexual men by gay men, so are you gay yet!

People actually say that to you? *cringe*

It must be so frustrating when people who really should know better come out with crap like that. You would think most gay people would be a lot more understanding about differences in sexuality, having had to come to terms with their own.

That whole "greedy" thing drives me crazy when I hear people say it, it's such a stupid and disrespectful thing to say.

Handsome Bob

I don't get why people would make a "greed" jibe. I mean it's simple really, be it you be straight or gay or bi, you can't help who you are attracted to. Gay people especially have always emphasised that point in regards to themselves and rightfully so. So why not cut bisexual people the same slack? Does it come down to believing that someone is lying to themselves? If so, that would probably be one of the most condescending attitudes that I've ever witnessed.

Dwn Wth Vwls

There's also the jealousy/self-loathing angle. Some gay people who struggled to accept it, would have jumped at the chance to have some opposite-sex attractions so they didn't have to accept their same-sex ones.

They find it hard to believe someone would admit same sex attractions if they could just skip off into the heteronormative sunset and tell nobody. Some gay people can only accept being gay because they know they have absolutely no choice about it and they have to accept it to be happy. They presume that being bi instead of gay is just a cover story so you can avoid being gay when it suits you. All the sex and none of the burden.

I think straight people accept bisexuality more readily, because it includes the opposite-sex attraction that they find normal. The same-sex attraction is just this "extra" thing that they can sort of imagine. For some reason imagining being gay is more difficult, because they not only have to imagine same-sex attraction, but they have to imagine not being attracted to the opposite sex.

stephen_n

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

I know a lot of Bisexual people who will never come out of the closet fully. Homosexuals tend not to want to get into a relationship with bisexuals because "they're greedy and will want to cheat" and straight people often do not want to get into relationships because "they want me to be their cover so that nobody will know that they are fully gay"

Believe me, bisexuality is not "the best of both worlds".

This is the bit that pisses me off most about it, be it with straight women or gay men. Because of their own narcissistic insecurity they believe it as all about them being able to please me or give me what I need and as I'm attracted to both men and women they think they will fall short. I don't believe there is anything to suggest bi-sexuals are more likely to cheat than straight or homosexual people. Just because I happen to be attracted to both sexes doesn't mean that I am any less capeable of love or fidelity.

Chuchoter

I've never understood the greed thing. People who cheat are going to cheat, it doesn't matter what their sexuality is. I think that a lot of gay people have a bit of a chip on their shoulder, especially people who've had a bad reaction to their own sexuality, because they imagine that bi people can just live the straight life and be happy, which is something a lot of gay people like myself would love to be able to do. I know if I was bi I wouldn't be in a same sex relationship if I had the option not to be.

stephen_n

crayolastereo wrote: »

I've never understood the greed thing. People who cheat are going to cheat, it doesn't matter what their sexuality is. I think that a lot of gay people have a bit of a chip on their shoulder, especially people who've had a bad reaction to their own sexuality, because they imagine that bi people can just live the straight life and be happy, which is something a lot of gay people like myself would love to be able to do. I know if I was bi I wouldn't be in a same sex relationship if I had the option not to be.

Again in that there is something that confuses me. How do gay men who can't function with a women think bi men do?

The last bit of your post is a sad indictment of our society that you would choose so called normality over love, love does not recognise gender!

MrCookieMonster

I've encountered this. My friend, who is gay, told me that there was no such thing as bisexuals, that they were just gay people in denial. So I was like yeeeah.... I dont think I'll mention my bisexuality right now.
And at the time, I felt that I might have been wrong about myself, that I should be wrong.
So the whole thing pisses me off, even though I can understand why it happens.

ixoy

MrCookieMonster wrote: »

I've encountered this. My friend, who is gay, told me that there was no such thing as bisexuals, that they were just gay people in denial. So I was like yeeeah.... I dont think I'll mention my bisexuality right now.

It's quite stupid though. I mean since you're also attracted to women, how come you're not a straight man in denial in his eyes? Hell why aren't straight people also gays in denial...

bodice ripper

I seem to be out of step with the other bisexuals on here somehow. (which is not to say i disagree as such, I just seem to feel differently, if you get me. you entirely entitled to your own out look...)

Firstly, I have encountered massive amount of hassle from gay people, particularly lesbians. the usual greedy/cheating/fence-sitting/in denial/undermining the struggle crap. and I am a jerk about it when i catch it. so, yeah, it *was* a choice for me. yeah, it *does* amuse me that i get attention from men when i am with women. I am greedy as all hell.

Straight people assume i am gay. I am in a 12 year relationship with anothr woman. she is gay. even my closest friends seem to find it hard to concieve of the idea that i am anything other than gay. When I point out that i am not, i am met with "Well, you are essentially gay, right?". au contraire, straight friend, i am probably checking you out as we speak.

Thing is, I don't subscribe to the "love knows no gender" line at all. For me, my attractions are *keenly* honed in on gender. My interests swing violently back and forth between men and women, sometimes quickly, sometimes not. It puts HUGE strain on my relationship, a lot of it from me. it does sometimes feel like my partner isn't enough, which is horrible to say the least. I read a lot of internet fora, and it seems like i am either a) alone in feeling this way or b) no one wants to admit to such horrible feelings.

My girlfriend was clearly dissapointed when it gradually became clear i am bisexual (I initially thought i was gay). There is a surprising amount of politics involved, and good old fashioned "how could you?" followed by "how could you not?" from me.

Sorry for the ramble with no clear conclusion. there isn't one.