Ford Focus Saloon 1,6 tdi diesel.

Joey the lips

Hi Folks

I was hope you could ask a quick techanical question on this engine. I bought it 2 months ago with a 3 month warrenty. I noticed the oil has dropped to half in that time and there is a slight patch on my drive now granted the patch is so small that it could be from a bit caught on the tray on the engine.

When i look at the book it says the oil sits about half way as a norm and then rises with the heat of the engine.

As the loss does not seem much does anyone know if yes the oil sits at half or if it does not what could be causeing the oil to drop to this level.

I should not that a "service" was done on the car before i bought

Ush1

An engine oil leak would be causing the level to drop. You need to have a look underneath to see where the leak is coming from. Common place for a leak would be the engine oil drain sump plug, check if it's wet or has fresh oil around it.

Martron

if you have a month warranty left. bring it back. cars dont leak oil without an issue!!

i have had had 3 focus's and never had an issue with dropping oil in a 2 month period.

Joey the lips

Ush1 wrote: »

An engine oil leak would be causing the level to drop. You need to have a look underneath to see where the leak is coming from. Common place for a leak would be the engine oil drain sump plug, check if it's wet or has fresh oil around it.

Not being very mechanical I am not to sure how to get in under the tray.

Martron wrote: »

if you have a month warranty left. bring it back. cars dont leak oil without an issue!!

i have had had 3 focus's and never had an issue with dropping oil in a 2 month period.

Yes thats my thought. But do you know if the book is right. ie the oil in a diesel engine sits half way.

Thanks again.

Martron

you mena half way on the dipstick?

i think that would be the ideal level for most cars. the best thing to to is check it first thing in the morning beofre you start it. then check it in the morning a few days later to see if there is a drop.

the car needs to be on a level ground as you will get different levels on different gradients.

R.O.R

Definately take it back to get it checked.

We've usually always got a least 1 Focus Tdi sitting around in the garage, ranging from 6km to 260,000km and I don't think I've ever seen a single one leave an oil stain.

Joey the lips

Martron wrote: »

you mena half way on the dipstick?

i think that would be the ideal level for most cars. the best thing to to is check it first thing in the morning beofre you start it. then check it in the morning a few days later to see if there is a drop.

the car needs to be on a level ground as you will get different levels on different gradients.

Yes half way on the dipstick. But i check it in the same place in my drive. It was full the day i got it home

R.O.R wrote: »

Definately take it back to get it checked.

We've usually always got a least 1 Focus Tdi sitting around in the garage, ranging from 6km to 260,000km and I don't think I've ever seen a single one leave an oil stain.

Yes i am arranging to take it back but just wanted ideas.


Like does anyone know what it could actually be.... aside from a loose sump. Thanks

Joey the lips

I have it booked with the garage. Thanks all.

Joey the lips

Hi All. Got the Car booked in with the garage. They kept it for an hour and checked it over. They agree there is a leak but cannot find it. They said they will need to take it for a day or two to check it out.

My question to you good folks is what type of leak would cause an oil level to drop and not be traceable.

Would the car be ok to continue to drive...The garage said well if the oil is not all over the drive and the level high enough it will be fine.

Has anyone any good advice on what it might be...

I do appreciate your help...

Joey the lips

No help on this one folks.... please...anything.

Row

These psa engines don't normally leak oil...well not that i've heard of...
If there is a drop of oil under the engine then the best thing to do is to clean any oil from the general area and keep an eye on where its coming from...is it from the front..rear cambelt side or gearbox side..??

everyday taxi

Martron wrote: »

if you have a month warranty left. bring it back. cars dont leak oil without an issue!!

i have had had 3 focus's and never had an issue with dropping oil in a 2 month period.

Yep. Bring it back, get a satisfactory answer.

Joey the lips

Row wrote: »

These psa engines don't normally leak oil...well not that i've heard of...
If there is a drop of oil under the engine then the best thing to do is to clean any oil from the general area and keep an eye on where its coming from...is it from the front..rear cambelt side or gearbox side..??

You will have to forgive me I am not mech minded. I dont know what a PSA engine is...I honestly dont know where its coming from at the moment. Either does the garage.

everyday taxi wrote: »

Yep. Bring it back, get a satisfactory answer.

They are taking it in for 2 day next week to dry it and clean it and try find the leak.

My brother in law reckons i should get a second opinion from a ford dealer in advance. He figures if it cost me 50 euro for the assement its money well spent.

I am just curious where it could be leaking from.

Thats

Row

Joey the lips wrote: »

You will have to forgive me I am not mech minded. I dont know what a PSA engine is...I honestly dont know where its coming from at the moment. Either does the garage.

They should have some idea where the oil is coming from...
The engine breather hose can leak a certain amount of oil its usally down to a damaged seal.....heres some info on psa..
http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/en/psa_group/cooperation_ford_b2.php

Joey the lips

Row wrote: »

They should have some idea where the oil is coming from...
The engine breather hose can leak a certain amount of oil its usally down to a damaged seal.....heres some info on psa..
http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/en/psa_group/cooperation_ford_b2.php

Interesting. When you say the engine breether hose what do you mean and is it a big deal to get the seal replaced....

Thank you

Wheelnut

It's the same engine as used in Peugeot, Citroen, Mazda and a few more that I can not think of. (PSA=Peugeot-Citroen)

My daughter has this engine in her Peugeot 307 and it never uses any oil between services every 12,400 miles.

The oil loss may be harmless, such as a leak, but there is huge danger in a turbo-diesel engine if there is a fault in the turbocharger. It's can cause a thing called a runaway.

What happens is that some fault in the turbo allows the engine oil to pass through into the combustion chambers (ie: the engine). Being a diesel, the engine can run on the oil. So the engine starts to use it's own lube oil for fuel, you can't stop it, and it runs out of control until all the oil is gone and then self-destructs.

This is not to scare you because the possibility is small. However I think some of your advisers have that in mind (without saying) when they recommend a second opinion and the garage can't "find" the leak but agree there must be one.

Joey the lips

Wheelnut wrote: »

It's the same engine as used in Peugeot, Citroen, Mazda and a few more that I can not think of. (PSA=Peugeot-Citroen)

My daughter has this engine in her Peugeot 307 and it never uses any oil between services every 12,400 miles.

The oil loss may be harmless, such as a leak, but there is huge danger in a turbo-diesel engine if there is a fault in the turbocharger. It's can cause a thing called a runaway.

What happens is that some fault in the turbo allows the engine oil to pass through into the combustion chambers (ie: the engine). Being a diesel, the engine can run on the oil. So the engine starts to use it's own lube oil for fuel, you can't stop it, and it runs out of control until all the oil is gone and then self-destructs.

This is not to scare you because the possibility is small. However I think some of your advisers have that in mind (without saying) when they recommend a second opinion and the garage can't "find" the leak but agree there must be one.

Thats interesting. How can i tell if this is happening. bear in mind its taken 3 months for the oil level to drop. when i got the stain on my drive which was tiny I cleaned it. Now i have another. What i think is happening is the oil is leaking ever so slowly and dripping onto the engine gard and as my drive is tilted the once a week that i actually bring it into the drive it is leaking a patch about the size of a closed wallet. Bearing in mind viscosity this might not be much. But over 3 months it has dropped to half or mid point which is either half a pint or half a liter) They say the difference between high and low on an engine is a pint or ltr i cannot remember)

Row

Joey the lips wrote: »

Interesting. When you say the engine breether hose what do you mean and is it a big deal to get the seal replaced....

Thank you

Not sure what ford use but peugeot/citroen use an O-ring on the breather
outlet...follow the hose from the turbo intake back to the air box...there should be a smaller hose tee-ing into this hose from the top of the engine..this is the engine breather hose.

Joey the lips

Row wrote: »

Not sure what ford use but peugeot/citroen use an O-ring on the breather
outlet...follow the hose from the turbo intake back to the air box...there should be a smaller hose tee-ing into this hose from the top of the engine..this is the engine breather hose.

Can you explain where both are. Bearing in mind i am not mechanical minded.

Row

Wheelnut wrote: »

It's the same engine as used in Peugeot, Citroen, Mazda and a few more that I can not think of. (PSA=Peugeot-Citroen)

My daughter has this engine in her Peugeot 307 and it never uses any oil between services every 12,400 miles.

The oil loss may be harmless, such as a leak, but there is huge danger in a turbo-diesel engine if there is a fault in the turbocharger. It's can cause a thing called a runaway.

What happens is that some fault in the turbo allows the engine oil to pass through into the combustion chambers (ie: the engine). Being a diesel, the engine can run on the oil. So the engine starts to use it's own lube oil for fuel, you can't stop it, and it runs out of control until all the oil is gone and then self-destructs.


This is not to scare you because the possibility is small. However I think some of your advisers have that in mind (without saying) when they recommend a second opinion and the garage can't "find" the leak but agree there must be one.

Good point.....Runaways on any diesels are usally down to engines been overfilled with oil....the oil can be syphoned out tru the engine breather by the turbo and pumped into the engine air intake chamber which inturn uses the oil as a source of fuel...:eek:

Joey the lips

Row wrote: »

Good point.....Runaways on any diesels are usally down to engines been overfilled with oil....the oil can be syphoned out tru the engine breather by the turbo and pumped into the engine air intake chamber which inturn uses the oil as a source of fuel...:eek:

Right but what is the likely hood and how quick does it happen. Bearing in mind the time frame is this likely.. and off course Thanks

Row

Joey the lips wrote: »

Right but what is the likely hood and how quick does it happen. Bearing in mind the time frame is this likely.. and off course Thanks

This should not happen unless your engine oil is over filled..as for the engine breather hose maybe take a few pics of the engine post them up and we can have a look....:)

Joey the lips

Row wrote: »

This should not happen unless your engine oil is over filled..as for the engine breather hose maybe take a few pics of the engine post them up and we can have a look....:)

Thanks... Many thanks. More than you can understand.

Joey the lips

I just thought i would give you an update on this problem seen as though you are so good.

I had the car in with the garage today and they said that beside the sump there is a bolt missing and oil is leaking out. additionally there is pipes leading to the sump and these are blocked and require cleaning.

Apparantly it can be something that occurs on a diesel engine...

They want me to take the car back and book it in next week as it will take a full day to take the pipes out and clean the engine.

Has anyone heard of this i am just interested on your thoughts.

Joey the lips

Sorry for annoying you again folks but anyone got opinions on the last bit..... Thank you

Row

These dv6 engines are prone to oil Gelling if the oil change intervals are pushed out or an incorrect grade of oil been is used...the oil change intervals on these engine are 12,000mls which i think is alittle much.
I usally service mine every 9,000mls using 5w 30 fully syn oil which has a low ash content and dpf friendly ...:)
http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp

I'd get the mechanics to remove the sump and clean the oil pump pickup gause as if this blocks it could cause turbo failure...:eek:
90% of turbo failures on the dv6 engine are due to the oil pickup/lub pipes been blocked and inturn oil is restricted to the turbo....which can cause Turbo failure.
If there going to be carring out work on your car this extra work maybe be well worth in the long run.

Here are a two diagrams form the dv6 engine....The oil pickup is no 2 on the second diagram.....the first diagram shows the sump.
Ron.

Joey the lips

Row wrote: »

These dv6 engines are prone to oil Gelling if the oil change intervals are pushed out or an incorrect grade of oil been is used...the oil change intervals on these engine are 12,000mls which i think is alittle much.
I usally service mine every 9,000mls using 5w 30 fully syn oil which has a low ash content and dpf friendly ...:)
http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp

I'd get the mechanics to remove the sump and clean the oil pump pickup gause as if this blocks it could cause turbo failure...:eek:
90% of turbo failures on the dv6 engine are due to the oil pickup/lub pipes been blocked and inturn oil is restricted to the turbo....which can cause Turbo failure.
If there going to be carring out work on your car this extra work maybe be well worth in the long run.

Here are a two diagrams form the dv6 engine....The oil pickup is no 2 on the second diagram.....the first diagram shows the sump.
Ron.

Thats cool but how would i know if he done it. he said what he is doing is cleaning the sump and tubes as there is oil clogged in them I wonder if this is what he means. This he said will take a day.

Row

If there cleaning out the pipelines to the sump i'd guess they would also
clean the oil intake gause......If your unsure...just ask them if they are going to clean the oil intake gause and if not...tell them you were advised to get it cleaned...;)
Also running an oil flush after the cleaning would be recommened.

Joey the lips

Row wrote: »

If there cleaning out the pipelines to the sump i'd guess they would also
clean the oil intake gause......If your unsure...just ask them if they are going to clean the oil intake gause and if not...tell them you were advised to get it cleaned...;)
Also running an oil flush after the cleaning would be recommened.

Lads i took the car for a second opinion.(No harm i figured) i now know exactly what it will cost to get fixed and what exactly is the problem.

I will let you know shortly as i want to discuss it with the garage and it may get interesting...;)

Joey the lips

Called back to the garage this morning to collect the car. When i looked at it i noticed that there was 200 km on the clock since i left it in.

This p1ssed me off tbh as it showed a total lack or respect. I turned to the sales lad and he said the mechanic had brought it home. Mehh i thought. thats ok i suppose.

Then traveling down from the garage i realised that he had orig told me the mechanic was not due in today. So really he lied.

Having lied i wondered what else he was lieing about so i took the car for a quick second opinion. The garage i took it to explain it much better. What had happened was there is about 8 or something bolts holding the engine pan on and one was sheered. This would have to be removed. Unfortunity a little oil was escapeing out the side. As this matched what the orig garage had said i was happy and paid a fee.

They also noticed that the engine oil air intake hose was held on with cable ties and not the clip it should have.

As i was p1ssed about the fuel and now the cable ties i called the garage i bought from and asked why it was so. He said that the cable ties are ok and It was at this stage he said the mechanic drove the car around all day and he(the sales lad drove it home)

I am p1ssed tbh but want the work done. I suppose a little of this goes on all the time as its garages but has anyone ever seen plastic cable times holding on the air intake hose. An original new one from ford cost 140 but I am hopeing to buy one cheaper.

Row

200km would take around 3 hrs of driving....:eek:..Tbh..Thats abit much...:rolleyes:
With the sheared sump screw i guess someone had it off before...
With hose brackets breaking some mechanics use cable ties to hold things together...Its not ideal but its better than have the intake pipe moving all over the engine bay.
Give your local breakers yard a call these should be easily sourced.

The main thing is to get whatever work/cleaning done when the sump is removed...I'd still get them to check/clean the oil intake gause (in sump)

shamwari

As far as I know, the sump has to be replaced on those engines when it its removed, as it deforms and goes out of shape one it is unbolted.

Possibilities are that
(a) it was originally removed and then reused,
(b) and then it leaked,
(c) and A.N.other then tried to cure the leak by overtightening the bolt which lead to it shearing.

Also on those DV6's, this oil flow problem is becoming and issue alright. Sometimes the oil strainer shown in ROW's pic post becomes clogged with swarf, causing oil pressure to plunge. As the oil feed to the turbo is taken from a high point on the engine, it is the first component to suffer if the oil supply runs into trouble. There is a Ford TSB about this, and they recommend an oil flow test is carried out on the turbo feed if a car presents itself with a failed turbo. The oil feed should decant a specific quantity of oil at tickover with in certain period of time (something like 0.8litre per min @ 880rpm).

I'll see if I can root out that TSB. Rows earlier advice re frequent oil changes and using the correct grade of oil are utterly essential though.