Energy efficiency in apartments-experience and issues

rachelwalsh

Hi There,

I am doing a PhD study in DIT on the subject of energy efficiency in apartments in Dublin.

I am looking for anyone's experiences with this in their apartments.

If you are trying to save energy, how is it going?

What do you find the biggest obstacles to being more energy efficient at home?

Have you noticed others making an effort or not making an effort to save energy?

It would be great to hear your opinions and experiences. I find a lot of people are faced with issues like visibility and technological issues.

Thanks,

Rachel

Cookie_Monster

rachelwalsh wrote: »

If you are trying to save energy, how is it going?

ok. rarely use heating, even in winter as two apts below us generally create enough heat.
replaced most bulbs with CFL's though most ceiling lights are halogen spots and eat power. main light bar in sitting room has 6 of these, I've simply taken 3 out to save power.

What do you find the biggest obstacles to being more energy efficient at home?

the other half

Have you noticed others making an effort or not making an effort to save energy?

50/50 I think some people are quite aware, some don't care at all.

rachelwalsh

hey Cookie Monster,
thanks fot that. Have you tried/thought about replacing the halogen bulbs with LEDs? or would this require electrical work? LEDs last longer and are more enery efficient to run.

Some people have said the light is different from LEDs. we have them in our bathroom and they are fine there, and in a kitchen area too.

Anyone else have any experience with repacing halogen with LED?

your barrier to change- the other half, what would you say the top three things that they do are?

Cookie_Monster

rachelwalsh wrote: »

hey Cookie Monster,
thanks fot that. Have you tried/thought about replacing the halogen bulbs with LEDs? or would this require electrical work? LEDs last longer and are more enery efficient to run.

have thought about it but never gotten around to it.

rachelwalsh wrote: »

your barrier to change- the other half, what would you say the top three things that they do are?

it was more tongue in cheek but: leaving bedroom tv and dvd on standby rather than unplugging them as never used. Same with a few other bits and pieces we never really use but leave plugged in. Turing up freezer to higher settings.
Leaving the oven on so it warm for keeping plates or takeaway food hot until eating. I really really really hate this.
leaving the immersion on sometimes (but I'm guilty of that 2)

rachelwalsh

'leaving bedroom tv and dvd on standby rather than unplugging them as never used. Same with a few other bits and pieces we never really use but leave plugged in. Turing up freezer to higher settings.
Leaving the oven on so it warm for keeping plates or takeaway food hot until eating. I really really really hate this.
leaving the immersion on sometimes (but I'm guilty of that 2)'

the LEDs might be worth looking into - could save you money

'as ever, it’s the money that really talks. A typical 50w GU10 halogen lamp costs about £3 GBP in the UK and lasts (let’s be generous) 2,000 hours. An EXERGI LED equivalent (a high quality UK brand) will at present set you back 7 times that but will last 25 times longer; so on true like-for-like purchase costs you actually save (3*25 – 21) £54. But that’s not even close to being the end of the matter; assuming modest domestic usage of 5 hours per day, the electricity savings from just one LED bulb compared to the equivalent brightness halogen lamp work out at £19.83 per year and £543.21 over the full lifespan of that one light bulb.
It may not seem like much but if you’re like most folk your lighting usage is almost certainly somewhat is excess of one bulb for five hours per day. If you crank the maths you start to see typical savings for an average household that start at £400-£500 per year (or £11,000 – £15,000 over the typical lifespan of an LED) and go up from there.'

Find out more at: http://www.kulekat.com/led-home-lighting/replacing-12v-halogen-lamps.html#ixzz0uVU7q1Xm

Also

http://www.savingtrust.dk/consumer/products/lighting/leds/facts-on-leds


The oven and freezer are both big energy users. there are warming drawers available which seem to use less energy

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1551576.html

http://www.nisbets.co.uk/products/ProductCategory.asp?TopGroupCode=5030

not sure if would save energy overall if they werent used much...

Do you have an immersion timer?

Thanks for your input Cookie, much appreciated

Heroditas

rachelwalsh wrote: »

But that’s not even close to being the end of the matter; assuming modest domestic usage of 5 hours per day, the electricity savings from just one LED bulb compared to the equivalent brightness halogen lamp work out at £19.83 per year and £543.21 over the full lifespan of that one light bulb.
It may not seem like much but if you’re like most folk your lighting usage is almost certainly somewhat is excess of one bulb for five hours per day. If you crank the maths you start to see typical savings for an average household that start at £400-£500 per year (or £11,000 – £15,000 over the typical lifespan of an LED) and go up from there.'

It remains to be seen whether current LEDs will actually last as long as is claimed.
I have a rule of thumb regarding them: if Phillips aren't releasing LED products, particularly when they are pumping billions into research and own a lot of the IP for LEDs then I ain't touching them.

I've found in many instances that a 2W or 3W LED gives off an awful quality of light compared to a 50W halogen.
The CFL equivalents are far superior.

There's very few dimmable LED products and the ones that exist are ridiculously priced.


David Matyus-Flynn who does a lot of lighting work for SEAI has a great expression:

"What is the best light?"

His answer is:

"The one that works for the job in question"

arse..biscuits

I live in an apt.
Elec bill is usally about €50
The first thing we did when we moved in was to throw all the storage heaters out. We only need heating on extremely cold days and use a small plug in electric heater.
I think I use a lot less energy compared to house dwellers.

saibhne

rachelwalsh wrote: »

Hi There,

I am doing a PhD study in DIT on the subject of energy efficiency in apartments in Dublin.

I am looking for anyone's experiences with this in their apartments.

If you are trying to save energy, how is it going?

What do you find the biggest obstacles to being more energy efficient at home?

Have you noticed others making an effort or not making an effort to save energy?

It would be great to hear your opinions and experiences. I find a lot of people are faced with issues like visibility and technological issues.

Thanks,

Rachel

Hi Rachel, good topic - close to my heart at the moment. Apart from using CFLs, draught proofing doors and insulating the attic (we live on the top floor) there are not many other efficiency measures we can take. We heat our water with gas and electricity and have good spec double glazed windows.

However there are two big issues I find with energy efficiency in apartments though.
1. BER certs. We have a C1 rating on our apartment, if we upgraded the gas boiler we would get a B3. the BER is a per/m2 rating saying we use 150 - 175 kwh/m2 a year, my aprtment in 56m2. I have problem with this as a 300m2 house can have the same C1 energy rating yet may use 5 times the amount of energy in a year!
2. The Management Company. I have been trying to install a solar water heating system in my apartment for years but have consistently being turned down by the management company. There is no real reason for this as far as I can see other than an objection similar to placing satellite dishes on the building. To put it in a nutshell due to the communal nature of the building an apartment owner faces more barriers to further energy efficiency than a house owner does.

rachelwalsh

However there are two big issues I find with energy efficiency in apartments though.
1. BER certs. We have a C1 rating on our apartment, if we upgraded the gas boiler we would get a B3. the BER is a per/m2 rating saying we use 150 - 175 kwh/m2 a year, my aprtment in 56m2. I have problem with this as a 300m2 house can have the same C1 energy rating yet may use 5 times the amount of energy in a year!
2. The Management Company. I have been trying to install a solar water heating system in my apartment for years but have consistently being turned down by the management company. There is no real reason for this as far as I can see other than an objection similar to placing satellite dishes on the building. To put it in a nutshell due to the communal nature of the building an apartment owner faces more barriers to further energy efficiency than a house owner does.[/QUOTE]

Yes thats a very good point- there are problems with the BER and that is one of them. Maybe a specific m2 BER or one for apartments only, recognising their floor area.

The Management Company issue seems to be a common barrier-has anyone else had experience of this?

Heroditas

rachelwalsh wrote: »

Yes thats a very good point- there are problems with the BER and that is one of them. Maybe a specific m2 BER or one for apartments only, recognising their floor area.

The Management Company issue seems to be a common barrier-has anyone else had experience of this?

Alternatively, domestic BER's should take into account the actual energy used, rather than the the "potential efficiency" of the building.

pumpkinsoup

rachelwalsh wrote: »

However there are two big issues I find with energy efficiency in apartments though.
1. BER certs. We have a C1 rating on our apartment, if we upgraded the gas boiler we would get a B3. the BER is a per/m2 rating saying we use 150 - 175 kwh/m2 a year, my aprtment in 56m2. I have problem with this as a 300m2 house can have the same C1 energy rating yet may use 5 times the amount of energy in a year!
2. The Management Company. I have been trying to install a solar water heating system in my apartment for years but have consistently being turned down by the management company. There is no real reason for this as far as I can see other than an objection similar to placing satellite dishes on the building. To put it in a nutshell due to the communal nature of the building an apartment owner faces more barriers to further energy efficiency than a house owner does.

A bigger issue than either of these in my view is that a large number of apartment owners don't pay their energy bills- their tenants do. A tenant won't install a new boiler or improve the insulation. The incentive for landlords to install energy efficient technologies and to improve the BER just isn't great enough. If you're planning to study the topic scientifically the first thing to do is to separate the rented apartments from the owner-occupied ones. For the rented ones you could look at how influential the BER is on a tenant's choice of where to rent - anecdote would indicate that it has little or no influence and that other factors are more important. For the owner-occupied ones, you could apply behavioural economics theories to understand the owners' decision making processes. There are many seminal papers in academic literature that attempt to understand why we make economic decisions that are counterintuitive, for instance why we don't install energy-efficient technologies that would obviously save us money.

saibhne

Heroditas wrote: »

Alternatively, domestic BER's should take into account the actual energy used, rather than the the "potential efficiency" of the building.

Agree with this - one of the reasons the BER is a bit of a lame duck is that it is too obscure in its meaning. Saying a building is a C2 requires someone to know that it relates to surface area - a barrier in itself. It would be more straightforward and effective if the rating related to the absolute energy usage of the building.

paddym355

Helpful:

Energy Monitor - www.diykyoto.com - shows energy use in € per year, so I can see if I left everything currently on on for a year how much it would cost - quite an incentive. also glows red if your energy use is above your long term average, and blue if below.

Switches on all plugs: Makes switching stuff off at night easier - e.g. all TV related stuff is on one plugboard, and turning one plug off switches off everything. Very handy. Simple but effective.

Installing a timer on electric immersion - Gas heating of water is wildly inefficient - no idea why - so we only use electricity to heat water as it is much cheaper/quicker....

Overall, electricity approx €75/month. Apartment 840 sq feet. It is new (2006), and has a south facing floor to ceiling window. Overall my gas bills for heating have been approx 150 - 200/year, roughly.

Not helpful:

Expensive lighting system built in that does not like LEDS. Have halogens so is relatively efficient, but cant upgrade to LEDs. I think I have 30 halogen spots in my kitchen/living area alone.

As can be seen from the above figures overall it is extremely efficient. Can't complain really.

shoegirl

pumpkinsoup wrote: »

A bigger issue than either of these in my view is that a large number of apartment owners don't pay their energy bills- their tenants do. A tenant won't install a new boiler or improve the insulation. The incentive for landlords to install energy efficient technologies and to improve the BER just isn't great enough. If you're planning to study the topic scientifically the first thing to do is to separate the rented apartments from the owner-occupied ones. For the rented ones you could look at how influential the BER is on a tenant's choice of where to rent - anecdote would indicate that it has little or no influence and that other factors are more important. For the owner-occupied ones, you could apply behavioural economics theories to understand the owners' decision making processes. There are many seminal papers in academic literature that attempt to understand why we make economic decisions that are counterintuitive, for instance why we don't install energy-efficient technologies that would obviously save us money.

One of the best posts I've ever read.

The problem with rented apartments and energy management is that if the apartment is particularly energy inefficient, the tenant will simply move, leaving another unsuspecting tenant with the problem. Landlords do have some incentives to upgrade their units but in many cases are constrained by the limitations of the development - for example they may have no choice but electrics for heating in many developments and cannot usually change windows. It is certainly more difficult than even rented houses.

Its also true that the availability of fuel allowances to some welfare dependent tenants may influence their tolerance of poor efficiency so income level of the tenant is probably another factor in addition to tenure type.

I know in my experience rented apartments tend to be poorer in terms of energy efficiency, but victorian conversions tend to be particularly worse again on all levels.