FI on sight lines

Newgirl

Hello all, Have just been asked for FI by Meath CoCo. yipee. They want us to 'submit a site layout plan demonstrating how we propose to achive the required site lines (90m), the land need to achieve this must be within the applicants control'. What do we need to send them cos we did submit a site layout plan as part of the application showing sight lines of 90m and 87m, and yep you guessed it we don't own the land needed to achieve the sight lines!

For background we're looking for permission for a replacement house. Current house has a main entrance and a rear entrance to farm sheds. Sight lines at main entrance are 0m and 150m. Sight lines at the rear entrance are 87m and 90. We proposed to close the current entrance as its so unsafe.
as always all advice and opinions welcome
thank god the percolation was ok

muffler

Newgirl wrote: »

They want us to 'submit a site layout plan demonstrating how we propose to achive the required site lines (90m), the land need to achieve this must be within the applicants control'. What do we need to send them cos we did submit a site layout plan as part of the application showing sight lines of 90m and 87m, and yep you guessed it we don't own the land needed to achieve the sight lines!

I'd imagine that you would need to submit written consent from the adjoining landowner(s) to achieve and maintain the vision lines over the land.

Newgirl

thanks for the reply muffler. would a letter from the land owner be any use since they say 'all lands required to achieve the standard should be within the applicants control'
thank you

JuniorB

NewGirl - we had a similar situation.
We needed to move a ditch and take 3 or 4 mtrs sq from a neighbour to get the required sitelines.
We submitted the letter of consent from him with our application.
The council got in touch and wanted us to produce a 'wayleave' before they would grant planning. We got it put in as a condition in the end to be completed before we occupy the house.
A wayleave is basically a legal hold on the land similar to a right of way - they still own it but you have right to maintain the sight line on it, cut the grass etc and they can't move the fence back out again.

We need our solictior to liaise with their solicitor and get the wayleave put in place which means adding a note to the deeds of the land - not a cheap or easy process!
I'm not sure what standard of proof the council will require that this is in place.

We have the ditch out and the fence up anyway so we have half the battle done!!

muffler

Newgirl wrote: »

thanks for the reply muffler. would a letter from the land owner be any use since they say 'all lands required to achieve the standard should be within the applicants control'
thank you

JuniorB wrote: »

NewGirl - we had a similar situation.
We needed to move a ditch and take 3 or 4 mtrs sq from a neighbour to get the required sitelines.
We submitted the letter of consent from him with our application.
The council got in touch and wanted us to produce a 'wayleave' before they would grant planning. We got it put in as a condition in the end to be completed before we occupy the house.
A wayleave is basically a legal hold on the land similar to a right of way - they still own it but you have right to maintain the sight line on it, cut the grass etc and they can't move the fence back out again.

We need our solictior to liaise with their solicitor and get the wayleave put in place which means adding a note to the deeds of the land - not a cheap or easy process!
I'm not sure what standard of proof the council will require that this is in place.

We have the ditch out and the fence up anyway so we have half the battle done!!

JuniorB's reply is what you should base your response on.

It would be a ridiculous situation for any planning authority to request an applicant to go out and buy land. Tell them in the FI reply that you have secured the consent of the adjoining landowner (you also need to enclose this with the reply) and that a wayleave will be obtained subject to permission being granted.

That then allows them to put a condition on your permission regarding the vision lines and then you just need to tie it down legally. All fairly day to day stuff really.

JuniorB

Here's our letter of consent template. Update italics as appropriate.:)



Landowner Name & Address

Date
Letter of Consent

I,Landowner, give Applicant permission to carry out all works necessary on my lands at Land Address, to achieve sight line for their proposed site at Site Address. These works will include removing existing hedgerow and setting back a new boundary stockproof fence and new hedge.

Signed

_____________________
Landowner

Newgirl

we've been asked to submit a site layout plan indicating how we can achieve sight lines of 90m, and the land need to do this must be within our control. We're applying for a replacement dwelling in Meath and have shown 83m and 90m sight lines. Planner said to call the roads people before we submit anything. Our architect (family member) isn't coming up with any suggestions. Neighbour got planing in 2008, all they have to do is have an entrance 8m wide and remove 10m of hedgeing each side. That doesn't give them the necessary sightlines can I use this in my favour or has any one any suggestions.
The only other thing we have to do is reduce the ridge height and thats no problem.
so close and yet so far

thank you

Bitten & Hisses

I had the same FI request with a different local authority. I had to get a consulting engineering firm with PI insurance and experience in dealing with this matter. Then, the planners decided to reject the recommendations of our report on aesthetic grounds and told us to more or less do what we had originally proposed. Long story short, your architect should be able to recommend a firm to do this work for you.

No6

Talk to your area engineer, he is the one who has most likely looked for the sightlines, depending on the road they can accecpt reduced sightlines but it is entirely at their discretion.

mickdw

In mayo, the roads department/local engineer can bend the rules on site lines so depending on what county you are in, you should contact the roads department to get their opinion on the situation. If you can then show them some reason why the reduced distance might be ok in this instance, i.e. very slow moving traffic etc, they might give the ok to the plannings to grant it.

IMO it would have to be an extreme case to have to get a specialist on board to look after this.

If they all stick to the requirement of 90m, you could be kinda stuck

Bitten & Hisses

mickdw wrote: »

IMO it would have to be an extreme case to have to get a specialist on board to look after this.

Mine was not exactly an extreme case, but the FI request stipulated that we get the usual "Suitably qualified person with appropriate PI insurance (Enclosing a copy of their PI insurance)" spiel.

Newgirl

thanks for the replies. Architect rang roads lady and she's out. I suppose I'm getting hung up on the fact that they said 'the land needed to achieve the sight lines must be ours'. Hopefully it will be fixable

henryporter

Like the others say; its at the discretion of the Council. Your architect can't be up to much if he can't handle this issue - I should know - I am one and I deal with this a lot. Worst case scenario is you will have to get a legal agreement drawn up with the person who owns that land over which you require visibility or best case is you discuss with roads and get their agreement - might be good to point out the precedent that you described and any other more recent if you can.

muffler

The OP has already posted this in the Planning issues thread and I dont see why we need 2 separate discussions so I have moved the posts from the planning thread to here

Newgirl

sorry Muffler didn't realise I'd posted in two places. We have to do a traffic survey at our house and if we show that 85% of vehicles can't achieve the 80km speed limit then we should be alright. Unfortunatley this is Ireland and you know how people drive on country roads. Fingers crossed The council didn't say how many days they want us to do the survey for is there a standard thing as always all advice appreciated

thanks again

mickdw

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Mine was not exactly an extreme case, but the FI request stipulated that we get the usual "Suitably qualified person with appropriate PI insurance (Enclosing a copy of their PI insurance)" spiel.

Yes but surely your planning agent olds PI insurance & unless they specify an actual required qualification, I would assume that he was qualified to deal with it.

Newgirl

Has anyone any advice on how we present the data from the traffic survey. The company we're using will have the unit in place for a week. Another commpany told me they usually supply the council with 2 days of data. The roads dept didn't give any guidance. My architect is not used to one off rural dwellings and all that goes with them. He has worked mostly on commercial projects, so I just thought I'd check here if people had any advice.
junior b thanks for your template I've written to the landowner- fingers crossed.

Supertech

Make sure the company you're using has been in touch either with the roads department of the Council or with your agent to ensure that they have the information in the correct format. It shouldn't be up to you to present it if you're paying a consultant to do the work. Give them a copy of any relevant correspondence from the Council and let them do the work. Normally a request for further information is failry self explanatory.

Newgirl

literally we were asked to do a survey and if 85% of vehicles can't achieve a speed of 80km/hr then the council will be happy. Since I haven't done this before and don't plan to again I've no idea what directions concils normally give. The company doing the survey will present the results in excel spreadsheet with AM & PM peak hours; 12, 16, 18 & 24 hours. totals; 5 and 7 day averages; 85th%ile, mean speed, % speeding; survey report. sounds great.

Newgirl

Well I needn't have worried, the company produced a 4 page report, architect has sent it into the council. The council wanted us to prove that 85% of traffic couldn't reach the speed limit of 80km, well 85% of traffic could only reach average speeds of 66km! So now we're just keeping everything crossed.

JuniorB

Best of luck NewGirl. They will surely have some other stumbling block that will be thrown in from left field..