I despise, no hate good looking men.

LegacyUser · 21-07-2010 11:46pm #1

I am a 20yr old guy who has never been desired by a woman I'm attracted to, and never had a girlfriend or any sexual relationship. I can't f*cking take this **** much longer!!

Here's whats tipped me over the egde.. I've got a pretty good hunch that this stunner of a girl I have recently become very attracted to (who I live with) is out on a date. No doubt with some f*cking tall dark and handsome gob****e. The type who doesn't have to utter a word to get women falling at his feet I bet.

This has done it for me. I have always had a dislike towards good looking and physically blessed guys (because I am not one of them and there's nothing I have wanted more than to be one of them), but this has now turned to utter hatred in a way I can't even begin to describe.

I am on the edge here. I'm going to have to end my life sometime soon. I just can't take this for much longer..

Victor · 22-07-2010 1:44am

Anon89 wrote: »

I am on the edge here. I'm going to have to end my life sometime soon. I just can't take this for much longer..

Surely an over-reaction. While it might seem like it, its not the end of the world.

I was actually 20 by the first time I kissed a girl properly. I had a chance before that when this really nice girl went to kiss me, but I didn't know how to react, so I didn't kiss her back. Things happen in their own good time.

Also, while its difficult not to be attracted to the people we are attracted to, its cause all sorts of difficulties if you try to start a relationship with one of your housemates.

How do you know that no women have been attracted to you? Women are rather coy about showing this.

wetling · 22-07-2010 2:01am

Stop falling for stunners so, and especially ones you live with, its just lazy - find a girl in your range, people might say it doesn't exist, but it does - deal with it.

minidazzler · 22-07-2010 2:06am

OP, how do you know that no woman you have desired has been attracted to you?

Have you thought maybe there are girls that liked you, but thought that you didn't like them?

You can't blame other guys for your own misfortune with women, you have to make your own luck with them.

Contrary to your opinion, being tall and good looking doesn't make a person a gob****e, and definitely doesn't make women fall at your feet. It takes a certain amount of skill, confidence and charm to pick up most girls.

OP, if you hate yourself so much, your body or whatever it is, then why can't you change it? If you think that might make you happy.

I'm tall, and it has only been in the past 9 months that i have realised (or come to believe) that I am attractive, I used to simply hate everything about myself but got a few confidence boosts. It just takes the right motivation to realise you are desirable.

It would be very hasty to end your life over something so trivial, I guarantee there are quite a number of girls out there who would be willing to date you, but whom you over look.

You may want to speak to the Samaritans about those thoughts. 1850 60 90 90

To sum up what I am saying, look at yourself and decide what you don't like, then change it, it's very possible, because you can't change every guy you dislike so that you are more desirable, you can change you.

muboop1 · 22-07-2010 2:48am

Amount of lads who pull out of their league is insane dude...

If you have a good outgoing personality and are fun you will get a girl.

However if you are in a club and sit in a corner sulking because the good looking girl has what you percieve to be better looking guys all over her... why would she go for you??

Can I ask you, you have fallen for this girl yes? Did you approach her and get her number? Have you initiated anything with her? Have you even tried it on with her?

Well, If not... how will she ever fall for you? Get yourself on her radar!
:pac:

Overheal · 22-07-2010 3:06am

when i see the people i work with and the amazing wives they landed :eek: I am surely convinced looks are not the end-all-be-all. you shouldnt think so either.

dory · 22-07-2010 7:40am

An absolute stunner in my job has a 5 foot boyfriend with a limp. It happens if you're a happy, interesting person. And it happens far more often that a stunner of a woman would be with an average guy, rather than the other way around.

Just be interesting. The most attractive guy in my work is by no means handsome, but everyone fancies him because he's funny.

Taltos · 22-07-2010 7:44am

OP it is not all about looks.
So much - I mean 90% is about personality.

Looks might get you a 2nd glance - but it is what you do after that makes all the difference.

Talking about ending it all - yes this is an extreme reaction; added to that your hatred to other guys. Neither of these two things together are good indicators for you - and I strongly suggest you seek help / counselling.
Chances are these are symptoms of a wider problem - and it could be likely that women are picking up on some of these other signals and could be running a mile because of some vibe you are giving off.

In other words - you could be a Johnny Depp or Richard Gere look-a-like but most reasonable women will avoid you like the plague.

In the meantime (counselling/GP) - I am going to suggest what I have suggested to others here. Something that worked at least for me.
> Work on yourself. Stop focussing on getting with ANYONE. Just find somethings you are interested in doing outside or work/college and have fun doing that.
You need to work on your self-confidence, bring some enjoyment into your life and stop obsessing over the women you cannot have. It might take a while but you will meet someone, but only when you stop scaring them away. Desperation does not smell nice.
For me - this took nearly 4 years... Four years of just hanging out with my friends - friends I made over this period, having fun, being oblivious to the one-night stand opportunities (not so much through choice - just I am quite dense in seeing when someone is interested)... Over this time yes I had my low spot - worried I would always be alone, wondered why my friends were hooking up and I was not - but each time forced myself to cop on and just relax. Kept repeating - it will happen when it is meant to happen.
Over this time I did meet one or two psychos (different thread) but had the sense and self-worth NOT to get involved for the sake of being with someone but just to enjoy my own company and that of my friends for a while.

Anyway back to reality again - please go talk to someone about your emotions and learn how to constructively deal with them until they no longer colour your outlook or how others view you...

AnonMous · 22-07-2010 8:07am

No offence Op, but with an attitude like that, it is hardly surprising you don't pull women. Worry about yourself and not other blokes.

I'm no oil painting myself but I make an effort at least and while i'm not the object of every girls desire, I get on with because life doesn't wait for anyone.

Gordon · 22-07-2010 8:08am

Do you only get attracted to stunners or do you look deeper than that to see all dimensions of the woman?

mood · 22-07-2010 8:25am

Girls go less for looks than guys so in only way your lucky. Relationships etc have very little to do with looks. Just take a look around and you will see this.

22-07-2010 8:46am

Anon89 wrote: »

I am on the edge here. I'm going to have to end my life sometime soon. I just can't take this for much longer..

This is why you don't have a girlfriend. It has nothing to do with your looks.
Getting angry, frustrated and depressed is going to push them away. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.
You need to stop freaking out at other guys, start relaxing and at least look like you're enjoying yourself out and about. Forget about how you look, because a personality will almost always override your looks - people can become a lot more physically attractive if their personality is.

Denerick · 22-07-2010 9:05am

Anon89 wrote: »

I am a 20yr old guy who has never been desired by a woman I'm attracted to, and never had a girlfriend or any sexual relationship. I can't f*cking take this **** much longer!!

Here's whats tipped me over the egde.. I've got a pretty good hunch that this stunner of a girl I have recently become very attracted to (who I live with) is out on a date. No doubt with some f*cking tall dark and handsome gob****e. The type who doesn't have to utter a word to get women falling at his feet I bet.

This has done it for me. I have always had a dislike towards good looking and physically blessed guys (because I am not one of them and there's nothing I have wanted more than to be one of them), but this has now turned to utter hatred in a way I can't even begin to describe.

I am on the edge here. I'm going to have to end my life sometime soon. I just can't take this for much longer..

Do you not see the innate hypocrisy in this? You only ever get attracted to attractive women, but are annoyed that they are attracted to attractive men? OP, you are shallow. There is so much more to life than this.

metamorphosis · 22-07-2010 9:08am

You have a terrible attitude. No wonder you don't have a girlfriend.

If you don't like something about yourself - change it. So if you don't like your body, then go to the gym and start a proper strength training programee to re shape your body. If you have low self esteem then talk to someone but with your attitude you will onyl keep yourself in this rut.

I was 16 stone, hated myself, jealous of good looking slim people. So what did i do? Learn about fitness and nutririon and last 5 and a half stone and its gone years now. Im now a runner and cyclist ... and happy.

Bad attitudes and low confidence eminate from people and in turn, turns people away. Work on loving yourself before you even try to love other people.

LegacyUser · 22-07-2010 9:39am

Most of the people I went out with that I'd class as "stunners" were utter ars*holes

Far too much into themselves to care for anyone but themselves
Generally just superficial - scrap away the looks and that was all they had.

Seriously Beauty is more then skin deep it truely is more than looks
looks are a declining asset with age, good personality and companionship only gets stronger
Reflect on that (pardon the pun)

lovetea · 22-07-2010 10:00am

I think you should consider trying to building your self esteem, counselling could be an option? If you feel that you are on the verge of committing suicide than you should see someone. You could talk to your GP about how your feeling and they may be able to refer to you a cognitive behavioural therapist. They help to change your beliefs (i.e low confidence) about yourself.

Also you could try aswell assertive classes, volunteering and heading to the gym. What would you think about those options? Do you have a close friend you could talk to about your how you are feeling?

Plenty of times, i might initially not have fancied someone and they turn out to be wonderful when you get to know them. I sure alot of girls will agree with me.

I think first you may need to concentrate on yourself. Forget about the girls for a while, concentrate on building up your confidence and self esteem. When this aspect is improved, then maybe focus on getting a girlfriend.

jurgenscarl · 22-07-2010 10:31am

I think you should definitely go see a counsellor, therapist or professional.
Contact the Samaritans and talk to them and ask them where you can get some help. There are any number of books you can get in the shops that teach men like you how to build your confidence and how to attract women.The best way to learn is to simply go tell your friends or if you have no friends you can tell about this stuff, go up to a group of 'attractive' guys in a club - the very guys whom you claim to hate and actually ask them for their help. They will probably take you under their wing and tell what to do.
Your neediness, you feeling that because you want a woman that you should be entitled to a woman, your lack of confidence and your anger is clearly evident in your post and it no doubt clearly evident when you talk to women. 90% of communication is physical. Only 10% is verbal.
How you stand, how you carry yourself, your body language, the tone of your voice etc etc tells people much more about you than what you say.
Women will always reject you as long as you indulge this destructive negative thinking. Nobody wants to be around a person like that.
That's why you need professional help, you need to work on your problems, you need to talk through where this negative thinking comes from - possibly from pain in your childhood and only then when you have got over your handgups, anxieties and what not and come to love yourself can you love other people.
Jesus said you must love your neighbour as yourself.
That means you must love yourself.
You hate yourself and your self-hatred is overflowing onto other people.
If you learn to love yourself then your love will shine on other people and they will want to be around you.

lovetea · 22-07-2010 10:44am

I think there is some good advice from jurgenscarl. Although i would think that going up to good looking guys in clubs might not be the best idea. You might be rejected and thus lead to a set back in your confidence. You could try talking to guys about their own confidence or advice after you build up a friendship and in a safe environment such as if you take up a sport or give volunteering a go.

Best of luck and I hope you might consider going to someone either a gp or a trusted friend or close parent about how you are feeling?

mikemac · 22-07-2010 10:57am

OP, the reason you don't have a girlfriend is not because you're not good looking.
Here is a test, ask your housemate or even your sisters to name their three most desirable men.
You'll be surprised at the results, and they always say Colin Firth????

The reason in your case is you are bitter, frustrated and needy and women are experts at picking up things like this.
You need to like yourself before anyone will do the same for you.

If you did manage to get a girlfriend you are so insecure in yourself that if she was chatting to some lad you would immediately assume she is going to leave you because that lad is better then you.
Again, if you think you are not good enough then people won't be inclined to believe you are good.

And I do think guys will help you out.
But not if you approach a stranger in the pub. Meet some lads through a club, maybe soccer and they can give you advice. But be their friends first, don't just use people.
Or watch Magnolia, Tom Cruise will see you right! Only messing, good film though

Work on yourself. Get a pen and paper and write everything you want to achieve.
Firstly is work on your body, get a trainer to kick your ass to a goal and do it. Everyone has something to work on, a trainer will help you there

Go see a GP of course too.

You need to work on your self esteem here so maybe counseling can help.
Definitely report back on how you're getting on,

Sanjuro · 22-07-2010 11:18am

OP, I do understand where you're coming from. I used to think the way you do. I was convinced (and to a certain degree, I still do think I'm pretty much up shit creek in the looks department) my pug fugly face would land me nobody. To make things worse, my best mate is one of those good-looking guys who all the girls love. In fact, when we were in college, I was known as 'uh.... Dave's mate.' It bugged the crap out of me. We both met this girl one night, the sister of a mutual friend. She spent the night chatting away to Dave and at the end of the night said 'see ya Dave! See ya.... uh... Mr.Man.' She couldnt even remember my name.

So eventually this girl started dating Dave. And I just resigned myself to the fact that she was just another beautiful girl I could never get, and dropped all the airs and graces we put on in front of women, and was myself. About six months later, she ended up breaking up with Dave and asking me out. This girl I thought was way out of my league dropped the handsome guy and asked the duff out. I ended up with her. Not exactly proud of what happened, but that's a different story.
The point of this is, stop dwelling on the looks factor. I know you're 20, and at that age, that's pretty much all that anyone focuses on. And yeah, there's always going to be superficiality involved to some extent. But it's not the only thing. And in ways, it ends up being a tiny factor in the overall scheme of things. I've broken up with two absolutely drop-dead gorgeous girls. My mates couldn't understand why I did it. But to be honest, these girls just weren't compatible with me. Looks end up being secondary. Really.

Hell, I rag on myself and my looks, and I'm still convinced I'm a Gollum-looking freak of nature. But at the same time, I know my personality does count for something. And that's what I try concentrate on. Sure, I spruce up myself whenever I can, but there's only so much polishing of a turd you can do!

Forget looks, and concentrate on being happy. It'll get you a lot, LOT further with the ladies.

LegacyUser · 22-07-2010 1:36pm

To the people saying I'm shallow, well perhaps I am a bit I'll agree. In what way though? Is it because I might be attracted to women out of my league? I can't help that. And you must realize that I am also sexually frustrated (being a virgin and just a complete lack of intimacy with anyone), so although a good personality would matter to me, the physical side plays a big part in who I'm attracted to. The majority of good looking men will generally only date attractive women by the way. It's the same case with women. I'm just saying I don't believe for one second this crap about women not being as superficial about looks as guys.

I have a natural musical ability and am a very accomplished musican with a number of instruments (probably as a result of having all the free time in the world to practice..). This is supposed to be a very attractive quality for women is it not? Well it's done f*ck all for me that's for sure, throughout all the 8+ years I've been playing live. Can you really blame me for feeling this way!!? I do enjoy it though when the groups of good looking lads/players in the venues I play at seem shocked and start to glare at me due to me having a talent, of which they likely have none due to breezing through life solely on their looks. I do get some comfort out of that I have to say. Doesn't change the fact that nothing about me will ever attract a woman though.

Susie_Q · 22-07-2010 6:25pm

You claim to know what women want/ don't want, while at the same time saying you've never had any intimacy with women. Don't you see the contradiction here?

Not all women are looking for drop-dead gorgeous men, but I doubt many women are looking for a guy with an attitude like yours.

Contessa Raven · 22-07-2010 6:38pm

feelingstressed wrote: »

The reason in your case is you are bitter, frustrated and needy and women are experts at picking up things like this.
You need to like yourself before anyone will do the same for you.

I think feelingstressed has hit the nail on the head.

Most people will tell you that until you like yourself (or at least accept yourself for what you are) no-one will want to be with you. They tell you this because it's true.

I used to be like you. Convinced my appearance was awful and that guys never wanted me because I was ugly. I had no self-esteem whatsoever.
I kept hearing about this thing called confidence. And I had no idea how to get it but I knew I wanted and needed it before I could get men to notice me.

So I worked on myself by putting myself out there. Talking to men in a platonic way to get used to talking to them. It helped me to understand how to hold a conversation with a man without putting pressure on myself to score or whatever. At first I felt a bit exposed and vulnerable but after a while I decided I wasn't gonna appear intimidated. So I kept practising. Eventually I had enough confidence for intense eye contact, a touch on the arm, a hand on a leg etc....

Confidence will not be handed to you on a plate. It's elusive. You have to work at it. Nobody is born with it.
The secret to confidence (and it's no great secret) is: fake it.
That's how you get better at it, through practice.

As a woman, there's nothing sexier than confidence and self belief.

mikemac · 22-07-2010 6:42pm

OP, you got mountains of good advice in this thread, didn't acknowledge it and instead of even contemplating on what you will do to change or asking more questions, I'm reading another bitter post on what you disagree with.

It's not your looks that's holding you back and playing in live bands is way cool :cool:. I envy you for that talent

OP, your attitude stinks!
Other posters have said to you already.
And we only judge you behind a keyboard, any women is a master of picking up your traits, your confidence and your frustration and bitterness and will do so in nano seconds.
7% of communication is verbal

LegacyUser · 22-07-2010 7:12pm

Susie_Q wrote: »

You claim to know what women want/ don't want, while at the same time saying you've never had any intimacy with women. Don't you see the contradiction here?

Not all women are looking for drop-dead gorgeous men, but I doubt many women are looking for a guy with an attitude like yours.

But see here's the thing..

Take a good looking guy, who may somehow be lacking confidence and then take an unattractive guy who's lacking confidence. The good looking guy will most often be seen as 'that cute shy guy', and will likely get women approaching without any actions on his part. The unattractive guy on the other hand would be viewed as 'that wierd creepy guy in the corner'. I'm pretty content with this being the case in most, if not all, scenarios.

Oh but of course if the ugly guy would only beam with confidence he'd be fighting off the women right? Now I do appreciate all your posts/advice btw, but tell me where do people seriously expect an ugly guy like myself to draw confidence from?

LegacyUser · 22-07-2010 7:13pm

Hi OP,
Im just trying to give you some consolation here and help you to see the light. Heres my story. I like you have very low confidence in myself and my abilites to get the girls. But listen im a 6ft 5 tall athletic looking guy tanned skin, and have been told by numourous women im very good looking and have some really nice looking girls throwing themselfs at me. Its your attitude and thinking thats getting you down man im tellin you im in the very same boat iv 0 confidence in myself so if you think its just "ugly guys" that dont get the women think again! I realised in the past week or so that its my attitude and outlook that needs to change in order to get on and move out of this rut im stuck in.

22-07-2010 7:19pm

Anon89 wrote: »

I have a natural musical ability and am a very accomplished musican with a number of instruments (probably as a result of having all the free time in the world to practice..). This is supposed to be a very attractive quality for women is it not?.

It doesn't matter a damn if you're a prodigy at music.
Your attitude is going to drive any woman away for miles.
You can listen to what we're telling you and make some changes, or you can sit there wallowing in bitterness and hatred - alone.

krudler · 22-07-2010 7:53pm

Anon89 wrote: »

To the people saying I'm shallow, well perhaps I am a bit I'll agree. In what way though? Is it because I might be attracted to women out of my league? I can't help that. And you must realize that I am also sexually frustrated (being a virgin and just a complete lack of intimacy with anyone), so although a good personality would matter to me, the physical side plays a big part in who I'm attracted to. The majority of good looking men will generally only date attractive women by the way. It's the same case with women. I'm just saying I don't believe for one second this crap about women not being as superficial about looks as guys.

I have a natural musical ability and am a very accomplished musican with a number of instruments (probably as a result of having all the free time in the world to practice..). This is supposed to be a very attractive quality for women is it not? Well it's done f*ck all for me that's for sure, throughout all the 8+ years I've been playing live. Can you really blame me for feeling this way!!? I do enjoy it though when the groups of good looking lads/players in the venues I play at seem shocked and start to glare at me due to me having a talent, of which they likely have none due to breezing through life solely on their looks. I do get some comfort out of that I have to say. Doesn't change the fact that nothing about me will ever attract a woman though.

You do realise that the majority of women would prefer an average looking musically talented, but confident guy to a stunningly good looking guy who has a crappy attitude right? accentuate your positives and women will pick up on it, if you're not happy with your body or whatever, change it, nobodys gonna do it for you..

HavingCrack · 22-07-2010 8:33pm

OP, I've never heard such self-pitying bull**** in my life. I'm seriously annoyed at how ungrateful to all the talents (music etc) you've been given in life. I felt like giving you some good advice at the start of the thread but no matter what people say to you you moan about how how girls only ever go for good looking men and how much you hate them for sailing through life. Do you even attempt to go and talk to all these girls???? Do you even try or do you just sit back and whinge and whinge on the internet all day??

Have you seen the amount of really ugly looking men with very attractive women??? They got them bu going up to these women and not being afraid of beign rejected-unlike you they tried and if they fail so what, there is plenty more fish in the sea.

You've seen how I've managed to pick up on your bad attitude through the internet so I'm not suprised girls pick up on it within meeting you. Seriously lose the 'woe is me' attitude and start actually approaching girls and things will radicalyl improve.

irishh_bob · 22-07-2010 9:18pm

bluewolf wrote: »

It doesn't matter a damn if you're a prodigy at music.
Your attitude is going to drive any woman away for miles.
You can listen to what we're telling you and make some changes, or you can sit there wallowing in bitterness and hatred - alone.

ive a different perspective , the OP is twenty years old so accusations of him being shallow are completley redicolous , everyone is shallow at that age and ( being shallow isnt the evil deed many would have you believe ) getting a girl is primarily about scoring a hot piece of ass , not finding your soul mate , regarding his attitude which is certainly very pessimistic at this point in time , most young people at that age meet each other in night clubs , when they 1st hook up , they have no clue whether the cute guy or gal the opposite side of the room or on the dance floor has a cynical attitude to life , they get with them because they fancy the arse of them which is why the line about the brad pitt lookalike going home alone because he,s got MOE SIZLAKS personality is a pretty spurious one

looks are not everything but they play a much bigger role than many would have us believe and especially when it comes to young people , seeing as you are not blessed with looks OP , my advice would be to aim lower , try dancing with the frumpy girl who,s a little over weight , big girls need loving aswell you know , getting some action is an integral part of becoming a man and building self confidence in yourself , once you become more experienced with the opposite sex , you will find yourself changing and the kind of girls you are interested in , will see you as more within thier league

22-07-2010 9:23pm

irishh_bob wrote: »

ive a different perspective , the OP is twenty years old so accusations of him being shallow are completley redicolous

Why are you quoting me, I haven't called him shallow

I don't care if he is, he's just not going to find a girl while he has that miserable attitude

mikemac · 22-07-2010 9:32pm

Well I do visit this forum most days.
And hey I have my own issues, check the username

OP, I wish you the best of luck in the future.
But all I can say is your negative, self-pitying attitude has repelled me and it's difficult for me to judge you from my keyboard

Be aware in seconds any lady will have you judged and cop your anger, frustration, bitterness and self pitying in seconds and will repulse them. Nano-seconds even

I read this entire thread many times, I realy did.
But my first post was long was full of good advice, to be honest I don't think you want to change and now, I couldn't care less what you do from now on.

You don't need a girlfriend, you don't.

You need a kick in the ass to snap you out of self pity, sort your lousy attitude and then you need to work on your confidence and self esteem.
Then, consider trying to get a girlfriend.

AngryBadger · 22-07-2010 9:45pm

OP the issue here is that you seem to think you're somehow entitled to have women fawning over you, or maybe that you begrudge other guys that experience, and yet do nothing about it.

You bemoan your lack of physical attributes, well what have you done about that? If you have weight have you tried to lose it? If you feel you'd like more muscle, have you tried some light free weight training, or joined a gym, or even spoken to someone who might be able to give you some advice?

You seem to be under the impression that women should just fall into your lap or something? Or at the very least you resent guys this appears to happen to, but you completely overlook the other elements in play in these situations;

While there are clearly "degrees" of how physically attractive someone can be, there's no such thing as a person who doesn't have to work at it. At the very least "exceptionally attractive" people (and please not the commas around that since the whole idea of attraction is completely subjective), have to work at maintaining their physique, at doing themselves up when they go out, (I mean these guys you're talking about, do you think they just wake up wearing pressed f-ing suits????). And I'll bet if you really paid attention you'd notice that these guys you hate make an effort to talk to women, tit may be completely ham-fisted, they may only just able to string 5 words into a sentence, but they're still making the effort, and in many cases they still strike out a majority of times before finding someone for a relation/night/etc.

Rather than resenting other people for their lifestyle why don't you have a look at yourself, and see what you can change about yourself? And bear in mind there's no quick and easy solution. If you want to change your physique it takes time, patience, and tenacity. If you want to get better at talking to women it takes balls, because many women will be complete bitches to a guy who tries to chat them up. So you have to keep at it until you start to get better, and immune to rejection. And believe me that takes a long f-ing time.

Or you can continue hating yourself vicariously through these guys, your call.

Oh one last thing, musical ability (or any kind of ability really), will only open doors for you i.e. it may attract women, but they won't stick around for that alone.

minidazzler · 22-07-2010 10:11pm

Anon89 wrote: »

To the people saying I'm shallow, well perhaps I am a bit I'll agree. In what way though? Is it because I might be attracted to women out of my league? I can't help that. And you must realize that I am also sexually frustrated (being a virgin and just a complete lack of intimacy with anyone), so although a good personality would matter to me, the physical side plays a big part in who I'm attracted to. The majority of good looking men will generally only date attractive women by the way. It's the same case with women. I'm just saying I don't believe for one second this crap about women not being as superficial about looks as guys.

I have a natural musical ability and am a very accomplished musican with a number of instruments (probably as a result of having all the free time in the world to practice..). This is supposed to be a very attractive quality for women is it not? Well it's done f*ck all for me that's for sure, throughout all the 8+ years I've been playing live. Can you really blame me for feeling this way!!? I do enjoy it though when the groups of good looking lads/players in the venues I play at seem shocked and start to glare at me due to me having a talent, of which they likely have none due to breezing through life solely on their looks. I do get some comfort out of that I have to say. Doesn't change the fact that nothing about me will ever attract a woman though.

You do realise that attractiveness is relative don't you?

Nothing is supposed to be an attractive quality, but alot of women do quite like people in bands.

The issue here isn't the whole world, it's your particular perception of it. It's not hard at all to pull, even for guys who aren't conventionally attractive.

Can you even acknowledge that it's not other people's fault that you don't pull?

Anon89 wrote: »

But see here's the thing..

Take a good looking guy, who may somehow be lacking confidence and then take an unattractive guy who's lacking confidence. The good looking guy will most often be seen as 'that cute shy guy', and will likely get women approaching without any actions on his part. The unattractive guy on the other hand would be viewed as 'that wierd creepy guy in the corner'. I'm pretty content with this being the case in most, if not all, scenarios.

Oh but of course if the ugly guy would only beam with confidence he'd be fighting off the women right? Now I do appreciate all your posts/advice btw, but tell me where do people seriously expect an ugly guy like myself to draw confidence from?

Again, these are YOUR perceptions, not every single woman you come across. You are projecting your thoughts and imagining that this must be how everyone is. It's just not true.

You want to know where you can draw confidence from? You said it yourself, you are musically talented, why not be confident in your abilities?

OP, what is it exactly that you don't like about yourself? In what way are you ugly?

LegacyUser · 22-07-2010 11:28pm

minidazzler wrote: »

OP, what is it exactly that you don't like about yourself? In what way are you ugly?

I don't have a manly look first of all. Aside from being only 5'9 tall, having a very un-proportioned body and small bone structure, I also have a very unusual face. Unlike most men my age, I don't have a slim face (it's chubby and makes me look like a child) despite the fact that I am a skinny person. My head is large, practically round and sphere shaped and I've got a skinny pencil neck (at least in comparison to my head) to top it off.

I basically have nothing, and from my observations that's rare for a person to end up with not one physical advantage, but alas I got dealt the bad cards.

So it's one thing being ugly, but to not even be able to feel like a man is just further pain for me.

Zen65 · 23-07-2010 12:08am

Anon89 wrote: »

I have a natural musical ability and am a very accomplished musican with a number of instruments (probably as a result of having all the free time in the world to practice..). This is supposed to be a very attractive quality for women is it not? Well it's done f*ck all for me that's for sure, throughout all the 8+ years I've been playing live. Can you really blame me for feeling this way!!?

Anon89, each of us is fully responsible for how we feel.

Stop blaming your looks for the problem. Having a musical talent does not attract women if you bury the talent it by sticking your head up your own ar*e and waiting for a stunner to throw herself at you. Stunners are smarter than that. They check first to see what kind of person you are and if you come across as a self-obsessed hater of others then frankly you may as well be talentless.

You want to have relationships with women, but you're being very closed to the type of women you want. You think you should be able to pull a woman as beautiful as that woman in the magazine that you masterbate to?
(No offense intended by that, I'm just trying to make the point forcefully)

Try getting out more, meet more people without constantly trying to match yourself with them. It is extremely unhealthy to become attracted to a flatmate so get those notions out of your head. Stop comparing your appearance to other men, it's not the issue. By allowing yourself to become a bitter, hater of good-looking guys you have made your personality less appealing to any woman. You need to wake up to this.

Be glad of your talent, if you use it well you can attract any number of good-looking women (if that's really what you want). Look at Andrew Lloyd Weber, the man has a face only a mother could love, and he's done well for himself! Look at Bono; he fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down but his wife is stunningly beautiful. I have a friend who's face is badly scarred from his teenage acne but he's married to a lovely woman who first found him attractive because he could ride a horse well.

There's no accounting for what turns women on, but bitterness turns them off from a mile out.

Be at peace,

Z

irishh_bob · 23-07-2010 8:41am

Anon89 wrote: »

I don't have a manly look first of all. Aside from being only 5'9 tall, having a very un-proportioned body and small bone structure, I also have a very unusual face. Unlike most men my age, I don't have a slim face (it's chubby and makes me look like a child) despite the fact that I am a skinny person. My head is large, practically round and sphere shaped and I've got a skinny pencil neck (at least in comparison to my head) to top it off.

I basically have nothing, and from my observations that's rare for a person to end up with not one physical advantage, but alas I got dealt the bad cards.

So it's one thing being ugly, but to not even be able to feel like a man is just further pain for me.

it stands to reason that women will choose the hunks over you , no point in being resentfull towards them or thier boyfriends over it , its just how things are , thier are plain women out there , try your luck with them , the only ugly men who end up with stunners in this country are sons of property developers or footballers

LegacyUser · 23-07-2010 9:45am

Irish Bob does make a good point in that at the age of 20, all lads want is to score hot women. However I think the bigger issue here is that the OP is setting himself on a path where he resents every other man for having a woman, and is over reacting to the whole situation a bit. Because he's 20, calling him shallow is a bit harsh although, for the OP, it's true....maturity please....but in 5/6 years time, if he's still going on like this, shallow will be a nice word for him.

Anyway. I don't know what you think you are OP. I'm a girl, did engineering, have seen all types of men! Really good looking tends to mean cocky, arrogant, thinks everyone should adore them, and from a girls' point of view - avoid at all costs.(yes I'm tarring with a brush, I realise that's not always the case, but it's often the case).Quiet - whether good looking or not, quiet is nice and all, but if you are struggling to hold a conversation with a quiet guy, then it's a turn off, to be honest. And often - lads in a band....think everyone should adore them because they're in a band.

Why exactly do you not feel like a man? Because you haven't got a "stunner" on your arm? Because you're not sleeping with someone different every night of the week? Because you're a virgin? So you're basically defining yourself (and I would assume, others) by whether or not they've had sex and how hot they are. Great. That's a really super way to view people.

I think your biggest problem here is that you are resenting yourself and those around you and are, to be frank, desperate. Harsh, I know. But OP (and I say this in all honesty and as a simple fact) I know a lot of men. I've more male friends than female (substantially more), and I'm quite a girly girl.....girls pick up on your entire attitude instantly. If you're standing there, gagging over some girl because she's blonde and has a short skirt on...to be honest, any woman even speaking to you will know that instantly. And why would they - let alone the blonde in the skirt - want to get involved with that? I know one guy in particular through my OH - he's short, not particularly good looking, but a nice guy. And he's absolutely desperate to find someone, and to be honest, I'm very very uncomfortable around him. I am in a long term relationship and I feel like I can't stay more than 5mins in a room, let alone a conversation, with this guy, because it feels like he's measuring up every woman in the room (including myself), and trying to figure out who to go after. It's intense and irritating and if he relaxed for just 5 minutes and forgot about being so focused on that and only that, he might actually get lucky. And every woman in the room knows it, and as a result, finds it extremely uncomfortable. He's a nice guy, but the immediate impression of him is that he's on the hunt and people know it.He comes on way too strong.

Stop defining your manhood by the scores you've notched on your bedpost. You need to start feeling good about yourself as a person, and the rest will actually follow. Go join a gym or a few clubs - if you've got that much time on your hands to be extremely good at several instruments then it sounds to me like you are spending way too much time on your own practicing, or with the band (I play instruments - I know what it takes to be good on them).Preferably join outdoor clubs. Are you in college? If so, go find some clubs in Sept and join them....windsurfing, mountaineering, surfing, even horseriding or debating or acting. None of these you need previous experience for and new people join all the time. I have several friends that met through college clubs and societies.If you're working...why aren't you out there playing tag rugby or doing boot camp or something? People react to you the way you behave towards them...start behaving differently.You need to be less conscious of yourself, and look outwards more.

As for your comments on your personal appearance...look, we're our own worst critics at the end of the day. When you look in the mirror, you will only see the worst things about yourself, the things you hate the most, and you'll see them magnified a hundred times worse than other people see them. I don't know if you're as awful looking as you seem to think, but there's no point staring at the mirror all day long, because you definitely won't meet anyone that way.People are most definitely not looking at you everyday as you walk down the street. Most of them are worried that you and everyone else is looking at them.

Final thought - what if, among all your rantings and drooling over hot women, after gigs, there's one or two nice girls in among that crowd who are looking at you and thinking "I kind of like him, he's a bit cute, but there's no point in hoping because he'd never be interested in someone like me, he'll probably get a girl that's much better looking than I am/he's only interested in really hot looking girls?"

There's 2 sides to every story you know...

Eve_Dublin · 23-07-2010 10:03am

Anon89 wrote: »

Take a good looking guy, who may somehow be lacking confidence and then take an unattractive guy who's lacking confidence. The good looking guy will most often be seen as 'that cute shy guy', and will likely get women approaching without any actions on his part. The unattractive guy on the other hand would be viewed as 'that wierd creepy guy in the corner'. I'm pretty content with this being the case in most, if not all, scenarios.

Oh but of course if the ugly guy would only beam with confidence he'd be fighting off the women right? Now I do appreciate all your posts/advice btw, but tell me where do people seriously expect an ugly guy like myself to draw confidence from?

Listen man, I´m not going to repeat what the others have said about your attitude. It´ll do nothing for your confidence and it sounds like you´re already down on yourself enough. I´m going to give you honest advice. You say you´re a musician...yep, the chicks love that. Every single guy I´ve ever gone out with has played an instrument...it´s almost a subconcious prerequisite for me but these guys have also been comfortable in their own skin, made me laugh, were kind and have had a "presence". Their level of hotness never really came into actually...some of them weren´t conventionally good looking but they were attractive because they liked themselves. Man, look around you and see all the average looking guys going out with fine looking women. I know you´re twenty and as IrishBob said, you tend to be more superficial at that age. Fair enough...I´ll be honest with you, although some of the exes (and my current fella) might not have had conventionally good looking faces, they all had/have one thing in common, they had nice bodies. They weren´t into fitness per se but they weren´t lazy either. They had built up some muscle in their arms and didn´t have beer bellies hanging over their belts. They all looked naturally healthy, didn´t over do it on the buns and perhaps played a bit of football, did some weights a few times a day/week....whatever. The guy I´m seeing now is very much a manly man (plays guitar and piano as well!) but does palates to keep himself in some sort of shape, doesn´t drink beer everyday and lays off the burgers and you can tell. He´s pulled a woman 12 years younger than him because of it.

That´s the superficialities out of the way. I don´t even like to mention it but I told you I´d give you honest advice. Now personality. Firstly, do you think you´re a funny guy? Can you make people laugh? Do you know how attractive an easy going sense of humour is to a woman? You´re going to have to let some of that bitterness go first though. Nothing worse than a sarcastic, biting humour to scare women away. Secondly, stop comparing yourself to the "good-looking guys". Whether you want to believe it or not, women are not as into looks as men. I should know being one. You said the girls will go for the good looking, shy guy....fair enough, that´s true as long as the guy is a genuinely sound guy. So you haven´t got the looks of these guys....man, most of us don´t but as a guy, you´re luckier than us women. Honestly, believe me when I say personality (and not gonna lie to you, a reasonably in shape body) are everything. Let go of that bitterness man. Just let it go. It will get you absolutely NOwhere. Start being proud of your achievements and start liking yourself by acting in a way that you´d be the kind of person you´d want to spend time with, be nice to others, even the hot guys and the confidence will follow.

Finally, stop being such a hyprocrit. You´re basing these girls on their looks but are annoyed because they´re doing the same. Yes, we´re superficial to a certain degree and that´s fine but you´re taking it to the next level. Why not trying going for a girl that you think you might have a chance with? I´m not saying someone you´re not attracted but don´t pick a girl purely on her looks. There´s a common mistake made by some of us....putting someone on a pedastal and inventing a personality for them just because they´re good looking...they want to believe they´re not a superficial airhead just because they fancy them. Do you want to be with a girl you get along with or just shag? If you got to know some of these less hot women just as friends, you might see that other factors can make these women even more alluring than your standard conventional girl. Intelligence and kindness being two very sexy factors in anyone. You don´t sound like a stupid guy, why would you want to go out with someone that´s nice to look at and nothing more? Get women off pedastals and come and talk to us. We won´t bite.

Good luck with it all man...I hope a lot of this is down to your age....something tells me it is and things will work out for you. Just let go of the bitterness.

krudler · 23-07-2010 11:09am

OP you said you feel attracted to good looking women, so by your logic do you think the "ugly" girls you arent attracted to hate everyone else because they're better looking than them? attractiveness is all relative, some men go for the blonde, big boobed stripper look, I dont, I prefer quieter girls who dont need to flaunt themselves all the time, I've been with girls who I found very attractive but others wouldnt, and vice versa. So stop the self pitying, get a better attitude and stop blaming everyone else for how you've turned out, and i dont mean looks wise. I'd kill to be able to play guitar, tried it before but couldnt grasp it, most of my friends are musically talented, a few are in bands who are making it big, doesnt mean I sit around cursing those who can do what I cant...

Blackdrag · 23-07-2010 2:40pm

Ok so we’ve all had the situation where the better looking lad has got the girl.

i'v seen some less fortunate lads with stunners and you know how they get em? Made the laugh and with kindness. Regardless to what you look like woman are also attracted to confidence.

Act confident, Funny (not moronic, abusive, or sexist), GET your flirt on! Oh and try to pay attention her feelings. To be honist you cant go wrong!

Oh and don’t take your life over something so trivial, the same as my case i don’t get approached because of my defensive posture. You probably have the same thing.

Make it your new mission to go about things NOT in hatred, get one up and hook yourself a hotty! change your outlook on the whole thing!

Zen65 · 23-07-2010 3:40pm

Anon89 wrote: »

I don't have a manly look first of all. Aside from being only 5'9 tall, having a very un-proportioned body and small bone structure, I also have a very unusual face. Unlike most men my age, I don't have a slim face (it's chubby and makes me look like a child) despite the fact that I am a skinny person. My head is large, practically round and sphere shaped and I've got a skinny pencil neck (at least in comparison to my head) to top it off.

I basically have nothing, and from my observations that's rare for a person to end up with not one physical advantage, but alas I got dealt the bad cards.

So it's one thing being ugly, but to not even be able to feel like a man is just further pain for me.

Wow. I thought from your earlier post you had a physical deformity, but what you're saying now is that you look younger than you are, you're taller than me, your head is round, and you look unusual?

OP, seriously, get off your rear end and do some exercise. You have wasted a lot of your time on self-pity and hatred, and it seems that these have become your defining attributes. You should expend some of that energy on physical self-improvement, in addition to playing music.

Also, take a look here at what real people have to endure by way of physical deformity.

(WARNING, GRAPHIC IMAGES OF MEDICAL CONDITIONS)

Imagine walking up to one of these people and telling them your little round-head & young-face sob story??

I don't intend to be unkind to you, you've cornered that market yourself. If you don't divert your energies into something more productive than moaning about your imagined disadvantages you're condemning yourself to a life of self-indulgent misery.

Be at peace,
With yourself, and with others,
even the good-looking ones!

Z

LegacyUser · 23-07-2010 11:27pm

You'll never guess who I answered the door to tonight.. I'm actually shaking right now.

I opened the door to find this f*cking god damn male model asking for said girl. I'm not joking the guy was exactly (in fact more so) what I feared. Actually he was no doubt the most good looking irish guy I had ever seen. Literaly has the looks of a model.

I don't have words to actually describe how ****ing inferior and worthless I am feeling right now. I am shaking all over with shock, in tears and so overcome with anger and heartbreak that I think I have hit the limit of what I can take. I am really finding it hard to keep from doing something to myself at this moment. I have already startd to drown myself in drink. I think i've had it at this stage. Jesus christ I f*cking hate myself. Why couldn't I be that guy!????? God damn this f*cking curse of a body. I'm a worthless piece of ****.

Stu · 24-07-2010 12:15am

OP, just learn to relax and be yourself (the good side) around all people, not just women. Don't look at women as a conquest, just treat them as you would a mate. I think you need to build up your confidence and social skills maybe by having some female friends first. Be the decent guy that looks out for his female friends and lends an ear when they want to talk about stuff.

When you are comfortable in these situations the rest will follow, i guarantee it. Don't talk about "but i'm not goodlooking". It won't matter what you look like if you can do the above and are sincere with it. You are young and have that on your side and now is the perfect time to begin really working on your mindset and how you view women. Don't be putting women on a pedastle and don't be putting yourself down. Nobody is perfect but the next best thing is being a decent friendly guy who people like to be around. Everything else will fall into place after this.

blairbear · 24-07-2010 1:48am

You know OP, just because someone is good-looking or is perceived to be good-looking, doesn't mean they have it easy or that a good relationship will just materialise out of thin air for them.

I'm a girl and have done modelling and everyday I've people telling me I'm good-looking. By your reckoning, my life should be perfect, right? Well, I've been the girl in the toilets of a nightclub crying because the guy I was mad about has gone home with someone else. I've been dumped for other girls, I've been cheated on. One time recently in particular I'd to watch the man I've a massive crush on, who had specifically invited me out, kiss another girl in front of me, a girl I thought was less pretty and is known for not having a word in her head.

I could be bitter about that too, OP, but I'm not. There's literally no accounting for taste. I could look at another girl all day and not see anything special about her, and some gorgeous guy could be drooling over her. Similarly some of my friends who are stunners have boyfriends who are nowhere even close to conventionally good looking, aren't in big-earning jobs, are just normal guys but who treat them really, really well. Which when it all comes down to it, is BY FAR the most important thing.

I've gone out with guys who would be considered very attractive. Some of them were nice guys. Some of them were horrible as*holes. I do think though that the very attractive guys in their twenties are more likely to be playing the field because yeah, opportunity does present itself more often, so I'd be less likely to go for them because I'd like a relationship, not a one night stand.

The guy I'm currently interested in and who seems interested in me is certainly not a very good looking guy. He's tall but a bit overweight, but he dresses well and makes the most of himself. It's taken me six months to get to know him and I've gone from not giving him a second glance to fancying the bum off him. That's purely through personality.

I do feel for you OP, but people here are not talking nonsense when they say that your character and the way you interact with women will be what will attract them to you. I've seen it happen countless times with stunning girls. I do detect an undercurrent of resentment in your posts towards beautiful girls too, like they're being bitches for not falling for you.. Seriously OP, give them a reason to like you, because you're your own worst enemy right now.

(Also, the vast, vast majority of good looking people will have something they hate about themselves, just like you. I dated a rugby player who all my female friends were swooning over. He was obsessed with his crooked nose that had been broken a few times, to the point that he'd never get in any photographs and would mention it countless times a day. And on any given night out, the girl that you think is a demi-goddess will have something that she dislikes about herself and is hoping nobody notices. You just have to make the best of things; we all do.)

I despise, no hate good looking men.

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