Cloughjordan Eco-Village

patmclo

Hi all,

Just wondering if people are aware of Cloughjordan Eco-Village in Tipperary and what it offers in terms of sustainable living etc, see www.thevillage.ie

Wheelnut

The Eco Village has to be the greatest non-starter of recent times. It's location is in Cloughjordan which is so forgotten that there are no main roads into it. However if you have a desperate need to find it just search a triangle between Birr, Nenagh and Roscrea, it's in there near the middle.

The site itself is a disaster area. It's just off the "main" street and has been laid out with roads. Only a few houses (maybe a dozen) have been built. These tend to be architects' concepts rather than anything practical, and they stand as bleak features on the site. There are building materials here and there plus a few community buildings. In dry weather the dust blows around and in wet weather it's miserable.

Some people were persuaded to follow their ideals and invest their future here. Maybe they still believe but I think I pity them.

As a footnote to this disaster there is one more thing to come: One of the sustainable features of the eco village was the railway station (about a mile away) that enabled the residents to walk or bike to the train and go to work.
Now we hear there are plans to close the station.

matthewmcmetal

I was to the Eco-Village and have done some research, there are now over 20 houses either built and occupied and/or under construction.

The train station is not closing, in fact the Eco-Village has boosted numbers using the line.

Colm_purchase

matthewmcmetal wrote: »

I was to the Eco-Village and have done some research, there are now over 20 houses either built and occupied and/or under construction.

The train station is not closing, in fact the Eco-Village has boosted numbers using the line.

The 2 post brigade are out in force!
I went out of my way to drive down there about 6 months ago. Drove into the village and couldn't find it. Actually couldn't even find someone on the street to ask where to go!

mikemac

Ah, mini Belfast as the locals call it

One the quietest towns in Ireland and I'm not surprised you see few people on the streets.
Little or no employment, young people don't stay in the area, few facilities and little going on.

Surrounded by three towns so that's where people go.

It was an important town once but it's been overtaken by everywhere else in the area.
It's not a bad area, if you were elderly and wanted a quiet area to retire to in a beautiful part of the country it's ideal. Need access to a car obviously.

If you're young, get the hell out of there.
So realy, not a town to invest money into housing

Macha

Colm_purchase wrote: »

The 2 post brigade are out in force!!

Insinuations about the identity of other posters are not permitted. Kindly refrain from repeating these types of comments in future.

Colm_purchase

taconnol wrote: »

Insinuations about the identity of other posters are not permitted. Kindly refrain from repeating these types of comments in future.

If you prefer to discuss here rather then send a PM let do that. I got to ask you are you for real? Big difference between the truth and insinuations. I posted the truth nothing else and told about my own experience when visiting Cloughjordan. Whats your issue with me exactly? You close a thread I start when Im merely informating posters of a new product on the market and inviting them to ask questions on it. A product which is extremely relevant to this area of boards. Now this knit picking at anything I say?
Bye bye everyone Im sure Ive now said something to warrant a ban:rolleyes:

Macha

Colm_purchase wrote: »

If you prefer to discuss here rather then send a PM let do that. I got to ask you are you for real? Big difference between the truth and insinuations. I posted the truth nothing else and told about my own experience when visiting Cloughjordan. Whats your issue with me exactly? You close a thread I start when Im merely informating posters of a new product on the market and inviting them to ask questions on it. A product which is extremely relevant to this area of boards. Now this knit picking at anything I say?
Bye bye everyone Im sure Ive now said something to warrant a ban:rolleyes:

In thread discussion of moderation is not tolerated. Moderators can post a reason for reprimanding a poster in-thread to make other posters aware of the rules.

Your thread was closed because it was blatant shilling/advertising - something that is not allowed anywhere on boards, not just this forum. This was explained to you privately through PM but you clearly decided to have a chip on your shoulder and take it out on other posters. Complaints about other posters are not allowed in-thread and should be reported to a moderator. Your insinuation that I am somehow picking on you entirely misses the point that you have broken forum rules.

For this and general muppetry, congratulations you have indeed earned yourself a seven-day ban. You can use this time to read the forum charter and peruse the Newbies/FAQ forum. Enjoy.

quentingargan

Wheelnut wrote: »

Only a few houses (maybe a dozen) have been built. These tend to be architects' concepts rather than anything practical,

Eh, what's wrong with architects designing houses? Don't we wish that had happened on a few more estates. By comparison with the usual run of cobbled-together 3-bed semis, most of these houses are designed to be extremely comfortable to live in, very cheap to heat, and some of them look fabulous. My favourite one is the end house in this photo.

The houses are also pioneering a number of construction methods that haven't been used before to provide low-cost well insulated walls. Before long, most houses will be built this way. I suppose that is what architects concepts are - tomorrow's houses today!

Compared to ghost estates in many parts of the country, thankfully construction is still forging ahead on this one.

One of the "concepts" was a district heating system - again mostly unheard of in Ireland, but by far the most cost-effective way of using biomass to heat houses in winter.

The train service from Cloughjordan allows you to enjoy living in a rural community with all the benefits for kids growing up, while allowing laptop-warriers to commute to Dublin in comfort. Most people who have tried this system of working on the train would put it streets ahead of commuting by any other means.

Sure, we all hope the kids will go to college and stretch their legs at sometime in their lives, but what a grounding in life compared to being dumped in a creche at 7.00 so mum and dad can spend hours getting in and out from Lucan every day to pay the mortgage and running costs of a draughty breeze-block house.

Wheelnut

quentingargan wrote: »

Eh, what's wrong with architects designing houses? .

Nothing! I'm all in favour of good design. What I'm against are poor architects who think they are good, who behave more like salesmen talking their clients into a belief that by building some way-out thing they will have idyllic perfection that will be unique and desirable. Then the result turns out to be unique and expensive.

By way of background I should explain that I've always had an interest in architecture and at one time I aspired to be an architect. As it turned out I spent most of my life involved in civil engineering and building technology so I was distantly in touch with architecture.

I'm retired now but I spent the last seven years of my working life in a building that won four awards and was extolled in the Irish Times. We had the architect in to give a lecture on the design of the building and I concluded at the end of the evening that he was a waffler. The problem is that after all his ideas and concepts are accommodated the staff are squeezed into the remaining space at the sides of the building. I found the working conditions very poor and the ventilation (dictated by the concept shape of the building) was terrible. During my time there two staff in my office were treated for cancer and I had to undergo surgery which I blamed on the stress. There were also many other sicknesses both in my office and throughout the building. I suspect that it will eventually be diagnosed with sick-building syndrome. So you will understand that I have lost faith in some Irish architects.

I had a look at those photographs of Cloughjordan in your link. It's hard to believe it's the same place. However photography was also a hobby of mine so I can see that they had a really good photographer who really knew how to bring out the best in a picture. You do not get the same impression when you walk around the place, and you will have to do some extra walking because some of those pictures were not taken on the site.

hadit2here

this eco village is so independant ;it wont offer much to the existing town that needs support and is struggling

dathi

i dont see any pictures of the terrace houses that had all the problems with the lime plaster and no dpc in slab

quentingargan

dathi wrote: »

i dont see any pictures of the terrace houses that had all the problems with the lime plaster and no dpc in slab

So a few pioneering folks had a problem using a more sustainable form of render. So what? It isn't compulsory.

I've seen quite a few good systems for houses that don't need a DPM or a DPC. I'm not sure which you mean.

I've lived in a house which was an early pioneering edition of the use of concrete. Solid concrete walls that the water poured through. It didn't stop us using concrete in later construction once we got the hang of the stuff. Society learns by the mistakes of the brave....

blue5000

hadit2here wrote: »

this eco village is so independant ;it wont offer much to the existing town that needs support and is struggling

I think it will take time for the new and the old community to blend in as more new people with a different skillset move in. In the longterm this will benefit the area. The town is a lot better now than it was 10 years ago. AFAIK the eco-village is having a lot of problems with planning permission, and a lot of the original members have moved on due to delays and escalating costs. However, I'm open to correction on this.

Wheelnut

blue5000 wrote: »

... AFAIK the eco-village is having a lot of problems with planning permission...

Anyone with problems blames it on planning permission, Michael O'Leary has just come up with the same excuse for moving out of Belfast!
:rolleyes:

brendankelly

""""So a few pioneering folks had a problem using a more sustainable form of render. So what? It isn't compulsory."""

This is a false and misleading statement, There were no problems with the render. The fault lied with the idiot that called himself a plasterer. The reputation of this plaster is now badly damaged due to stupidity.

matthewmcmetal

Eco village is not toatlly independent of cloughjordan village it is built onto the main street of Cloughjordan and the eco village work closely with the village committee to enhance both villages

brendankelly

dathi wrote: »

i dont see any pictures of the terrace houses that had all the problems with the lime plaster and no dpc in slab

Could you not have thought up an answer in 5 months?????

Macha

brendankelly wrote: »

Could you not have thought up an answer in 5 months?????

Please post constructively.

quentingargan

Interesting article in the Irish Times last week under the heading "Ecovillage confounds critics with expansion".

They were announcing the opening of Ireland's largest solar park, which along with a wood chip district heating system, provides heat to the houses delivered for 3.5c per KwHr.

While some site prices have fallen slightly, it is one of the busiest housing estates in Ireland at the moment!

matthewmcmetal

Thats a great little article. Goes to show their is far more resilience in the eco-village than thought. When you consider the depth of the recession, its so encouraging to see this project grow. Well done to everyone down there!

quentingargan

Another piece on this project in The Indo today.

Reams of scaffolding, dozens of builders in fluorescent bibs, the persistent din of construction. It reads like a memory of those heady Celtic Tiger days when house-building seemed to be our national hobby.....

But the Eco Village is a far cry from all the housing estates that were flung up at break-neck speed in the boom years. This one has been meticulously thought out. Every house -- remarkably different from each other in design -- is built to stringent sustainable energy rules....

See the full article here...

dynamick

Negative article about the ecovillage
http://www.thescavenger.net/environment/greenspin-and-eco-village-madness-679.html

quentingargan

dynamick wrote: »

Negative article about the ecovillage
http://www.thescavenger.net/environment/greenspin-and-eco-village-madness-679.html

Amazing how quickly things can turn around;

From the Article
“Right here, one day, is the site where a bakery will be built,” our tour leader Davey Philip pointed out, trying to stimulate our imaginations and conjur smells of hot coffee. In reality the site indicated was nothing more than an empty space devoid of promise."

From yesterday's Indo;

The couple are currently in the process of building an energy-efficient oven right beside the house.
"It should be ready by September," Joe says, "and we reckon we'll be able to bake 1,000 organic loaves a week. We'll supply the local community and our Blazing Salads business in Dublin."

From the Article;
A much touted centralised heating system wasn’t working, I’d heard on the grapevine. The comparison with a gulag continued. Didn’t people look at history and see that grand centralised energy or waste systems ultimately fail, are inherently problematic and unsustainable? A green Big Brother is still Big Brother.

I presume this is the district heating system which is now selling heat to homes for 3.5c per KwHr. By far the cheapest energy cost I've seen in a long time.... District Heating Systems are very common in Europe, and should be here. We have district electric supplies and district water supplies, why should a housing estate have 300 separate boilers?

Macha

The fact that they spelled Davie's name wrong smacks of poor journalism.

The efficiencies of collaborative consumption will never be realised in Ireland if we keep up the attitude of what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours.

brendankelly

dynamick wrote: »

Negative article about the ecovillage
http://www.thescavenger.net/environment/greenspin-and-eco-village-madness-679.html

I have just sent the post below to this link

Dear Mickey Joe
The article above is embarrassing to those of us that are trying to promote sustainability and your comment adds injury to insult.

Firstly you need to get your facts correct. Concrete/cement was only discovered in the last centaury and before that all buildings were built with lime. Your statement that the eco village is a chance to try out new things is also not true because if it was there would be a record of the experiments that failed available to all of us that are interested in sustainable building. You also write about bad building practice in the past while one of the most controversial insulation systems (EWSI) is been used in a Eco Village.

There are alternatives to concrete, polystyrene, gypsum etc and these should be tried tested and found to be less sustainable before cement etc should be allowed in an eco village. The records of these meetings should be available to all, particularly those promoting sustainability.

brendankelly

Quentingargan. Was there or is there a mould issue in the Eco Village????


top
Toxic Black Mold... or mold that is black? Click here for mould update, February 2005

Dec 2003

Nasty-sounding stuff, isn't it?
Stachybotrys Chartarum, Penicillium and Aspergillus - toxic, health-threatening molds found in homes, businesses and schools near you.
These molds can be found anywhere that dark and dank conditions permit them to grow. When you try to kill them, they take to the air, spreading with no forethought to the damage they can cause. They’re just trying to survive. And they’re good at it.
Remember the story of the opening of King Tut’s tomb? Mold was reportedly thick and pungent. The treasure hunters and laborers took ill after spending long days inside, and many died, but we now know it was not because the tomb was “cursed."
Only in the past decade have we begun to understand the potential health risks associated with exposure to mold contamination. Spores can be inhaled, absorbed through the skin or ingested with our food. And, because some people are more susceptible than others, one person may become debilitated by exposure to mold in a home, while another person sharing the same environment is essentially unaffected.
Infants, the elderly and anyone with immune system deficiencies due to disease, chemotherapy, etc. are particularly susceptible to serious illness following exposure to microbial contamination.
Many species of mold and mildew (or the mycotoxins they produce) can cause or aggravate a number of ailments. Common effects from molds include asthma, pneumonitis, upper respiratory problems, sinusitis, dry cough, skin rashes, stomach upset, headaches, disorientation and bloody noses.
Infacts, the elderly and anyone with immune system deficiencies are particularly susceptible.
Numerous species of mold and mildew are also toxic, and many mycotoxins are known carcinogens. Severe exposure can lead to internal bleeding, kidney and liver failure and pulmonary emphysema.
Contamination of residential properties by toxic mold and mildew is becoming more and more prevalent. Although mankind has been aware for thousands of years that mold thrives in damp conditions, only recently have we begun to understand how dramatically its presence can affect us. Toxic molds are not discerning, attacking both old and new buildings.
The odor or appearance of mold can signal a variety of problems. The moisture that gives life to fungal growth in older buildings can be either a moisture problem created by occupants’ use, or water intrusion due to leaky components, or both. In new construction, it could also indicate the existence of construction defects.
Health risks due to the presence of mold in a dwelling are a serious concern to occupants, and can pose potential liability for building owners, vendors, Realtors and home inspectors.

quentingargan

brendankelly wrote: »

There are alternatives to concrete, polystyrene, gypsum etc and these should be tried tested and found to be less sustainable before cement etc should be allowed in an eco village.

While I agree that there are alternatives, sadly, there are also financial constraints that many people are compromised by. While our own home (in Bantry) is a post and beam strawbale house, the reality for most builders, including self-build, is that you can't easily get a mortgage on a strawbale building, or on anything that isn't built with Agrement certification. Other construction materials that are both ethical, and Agrement certified, are extremely expensive. So not everyone can afford the luxury of ignoring concrete, or at least Ecocem, which afaik is what is generally in use at Cloughjordan.

So I wouldn't be quite so judgemental at this time. What is being built in Cloughjordan is streets ahead of the vast majority of household construction.

I have one house there being built with Durisol - a lime/fibre hollow block developed in Wales that comes with insulation in the hollow section. You put the blocks together and then pour in concrete (in the form of Eco Cem). It provides thermal mass, insulation and air tightness, while being vapour permeable and structurally sound. The plastering is in hemp / lime. There are only a handful of houses built this way in Ireland, so to that extent it is partly experimental. At the same time, it is certified and can get the engineer's reports needed for a mortgage.

For the purist, it is a compromise, but elsewhere on this thread there are others slagging off the lime render system as being "off the wall"

I haven't heard of a mould issue, but I'm not living at The Village and only visit occasionally. But you will get mould on any wall that is in an unventilated area. We've an old farmhouse here that suffers badly. I've seen many self-builds over the years where ventilation needs weren't met, resulting in mould. I've also seen it in modern housing estates signed off by architectural firms and engineers who wouldn't put ink to paper for some of the more radical ethical construction systems...

brendankelly

Yes there were some, some time ago that were slagging off Hemp/Lime render. Sultan and Tom Burke. I debated this issue with them and showed that if applied correctly hemp/lime render is as good if not better than cement render. The promotional video is still to be seen on u tube showing the correct way this material should be applied. see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrSpX8LF0Lw

Your Durisel blocks sounds exciting and I would very much welcome more info on these.

The mould issue was highlighted some time ago and while I agree with what you wrote, This does not explain black mould on the outside of buildings.

quentingargan

brendankelly wrote: »

Your Durisel blocks sounds exciting and I would very much welcome more info on these.

The mould issue was highlighted some time ago and while I agree with what you wrote, This does not explain black mould on the outside of buildings.

Hi Brendan, Info on the blocks is PMd to you.

I've never seen mould on outdoor walls, but it apparently can happen. However, according to one USA mould inspector (here).

"But do not panic if you have a little black mold growing on your bushes or exterior walls. This mold is typically common outdoor black sooty mold ( Aerobisidum, Cladosporium spherisperium, and other molds as well as some green algae,)

This type of mold is common on exterior shady walls in wet climates such as Florida and the South East and this inspector has not see a likely correlation between this mold and health complaints."

dynamick

What stops hemp from rotting if you use it in a render? What stops it absorbing water?

brendankelly

A very valid question dynamic. Hemp is the same as timber and the lime protects the timber and stops it from rotting. You will see timber windows in old ruins that have been in ruins for over 20 years and the timber completely exposed to the elements.

The water getting in is not the problem and you will only have a problem if the moisture can not get back out. The lime vaporises the moisture and it is this process that hardens the render. We have tried different methods and found that unless each coat of render is floated problems will arise. We had to scrape down all the renders that were left with a steel trowel finish. We did 3 videos in 08 showing how to apply each coat and you will see that I floated each coat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrSpX8LF0Lw . The job I did in the video can be seen and we still have not white washed it.

brendankelly

Thanks for the info on the blocks.

Our plans are different from your plans. This is not to imply that there is anything wrong with your plans. We intend to have different designs but the same wall, roof insulation etc on all the houses to reduce costs. Your blocks will definitely on the table as we intend to make most of the blocks etc on site. We have to import timber because there is very little available here and the waste from our saw mill can also go to making your blocks. Putting concrete into the blocks will not happen for several reasons instead we will either fill them with hempcrete or NHL 5 and sand. (If we decide to use them)

At present all that is agreed for definite is our village will be powered with a combination of wind and water turbines and solar panels. All the internal insulation will be sheep's wool processed close to the site. Hemp will be widely used and will be grown in Ireland.

brendankelly

Hi Quentingargan

You misunderstand my post. I do not have mould any place near me thank God but if I did I would panic. The message below was posted on another Forum and as you can see the general public are slowly recognising the dangers of moulds. The Arch on a job we were on told me that this black mould can be compared to asbestos and it is actually worse when dry and invisible and should be treated as toxic waste. I would be one of the 10% that believes mould is an issue.


Health risk from EWIS and other facade coatings
EWIS seem to have a considerable health risk. The enviroment is damaged as well from the biozides leaching out.

See

http://www.axioma-project.eu/calenda...-coatings.html

Quote:
Background Info

• Ten percent of homeowners believe that mould is an issue in their neighbourhoods while 35 percent of home builders and 19 percent of real estate agents believe that this is an issue in the homes they build/sell.
• A total of 11% of the entire global burden of disease has been attributed to unhealthy buildings.
• Coatings in the built environment usually exhibit biocidal functionality between 0.5 and 2 years, whereas the desired service life in building practice is at least 10 years.

There was no attendance from Irish or British speakers at the recent conference, the issue seems to be ignored in the English speaking world.

See

http://www.hsr.ch/uploads/tx_nmagend...2011_Flyer.pdf

Mind that particular EWIS might be hazardous waste and the whole lot being declared as non-habitable in the future. The well and water sources polluted, the site being worthless. The water authorities demanding money from the site owners to clean up the mess.
Who knows....who cares? Sustainable building done by green horns .....