Jehovah's Witnesses

tigerblob · 21-07-2010 2:00pm #1

I spent a while looking up this religion and reading about it, but I'm not really any the wiser. Is there anyone here who is or has been a Jehovah's Witness? What is it like? What is the process of becoming one? What is life like for a Jehovah's Witness? I know a handful of people who are Jehovah's Witnesses, and some who have left the religion, but they don't talk much about it.

smurfhousing · 23-07-2010 1:36am

tigerblob wrote: »

I spent a while looking up this religion and reading about it, but I'm not really any the wiser. Is there anyone here who is or has been a Jehovah's Witness? What is it like? What is the process of becoming one? What is life like for a Jehovah's Witness? I know a handful of people who are Jehovah's Witnesses, and some who have left the religion, but they don't talk much about it.

I'm not a JW. But I lived with one for a year at university. He was quite a nice chap, but he shunned me once he realised that I was a Catholic who knew his faith - mine and his.

If you want to find out about them, how they began, what they believe etc... then this is a good start: http://www.catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp

The Watchtower is their magazine which they distribute door to door.

tigerblob · 23-07-2010 3:18pm

Would a Catholic website not be biased and maybe not give an accurate representation of their beliefs? You know how in school the religion books would say "they think x, y and z" and there would practically be a "lol!" after that!

smurfhousing · 23-07-2010 3:31pm

tigerblob wrote: »

Would a Catholic website not be biased and maybe not give an accurate representation of their beliefs? You know how in school the religion books would say "they think x, y and z" and there would practically be a "lol!" after that!

You know, I could have given an evangelical Christian website which refuted the arguments of the JWs in exactly the same way as the Catholic one would have, only the same site would have gone on to attempt to refute the Catholic Faith as well, just as the Catholic site would refute the arguments of non-Catholic Christians. The information is not biased nor inaccurate, it's just the facts about the JW faith and its origins from objective sources, so it is not so important whether that information is found on the site of a Catholic or other website. As I am a Catholic myself, I'd be naturally inclined to provide links to Catholic websites, but if a gun was put to my head, I could also provide links to other sources as well.

dlofnep · 23-07-2010 3:34pm

Went to Fás with one - His brother was disowned for not subscribing to the faith. He used to smoke cigarettes, and wasn't in anyway interested in the religion but his parents forced it on him. He'd hide at the back of Fás sneaking in a smoke incase his parents drove past and caught him. He said he would have been disowned. Said he hated going around promoting the religion.

Fanny Cradock · 23-07-2010 3:45pm

tigerblob wrote: »

Would a Catholic website not be biased and maybe not give an accurate representation of their beliefs? You know how in school the religion books would say "they think x, y and z" and there would practically be a "lol!" after that!

That attitude presupposes that Catholics are unwilling or incapable of offering an accurate outline of the believes of JW. It might well be that the site in question is a poor example of a reliable source of information (haven't looked at it myself), but to suggest that it is unreliable because it is Catholic is in and of itself unfair and, dare I say, rather biased.

tigerblob · 23-07-2010 3:53pm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

That attitude presupposes that Catholics are unwilling or incapable of offering an accurate outline of the believes of JW. It might well be that the site in question is a poor example of a reliable source of information (haven't looked at it myself), but to suggest that it is unreliable because it is Catholic is in and of itself unfair and, dare I say, rather biased.

No, no, I didn't mean it that way! I didn't mean a Catholic website specifically, I just meant a website of any faith. I mean, wouldn't JW websites paint a rose-tinted picture, while websites of other faiths would paint an overly negative picture. Also, I've heard the Catholic point of view because I, too, am Catholic.

Cerocco · 23-07-2010 4:00pm

Why don't you when they call to your door the next time invite them in for a cuppa and ask all the questions you like. There was a film made i think its called knocking, may also give you some insight. I had a bible study with them for 2 years, i'm a catholic no pressure to convert they just want to teach the bible. To be honest i learned more about the bible from the bible from them than i did in my 33 years in the catholic church!! I'm still catholic now

tigerblob · 25-07-2010 4:09pm

Cerocco wrote: »

Why don't you when they call to your door the next time invite them in for a cuppa and ask all the questions you like. There was a film made i think its called knocking, may also give you some insight. I had a bible study with them for 2 years, i'm a catholic no pressure to convert they just want to teach the bible. To be honest i learned more about the bible from the bible from them than i did in my 33 years in the catholic church!! I'm still catholic now

They never knock on my door! I think they do the door knocking thing less often now, I haven't heard of anyone being visited by them in my area lately.

Cerocco · 25-07-2010 6:05pm

OP you mentioned in your first post that you know a few, why don't you have a chat with them, if all else fails why not call to your local kingdom hall when they are having their meetings and someone there will be more than happy to speak to you

LeprachaunPope · 30-07-2010 12:09am

If you have any questions about Christianity, ask the Pope not j00r Jehovah Witnesses

4g92mit · 31-07-2010 1:06am

tigerblob wrote: »

I spent a while looking up this religion and reading about it, but I'm not really any the wiser. Is there anyone here who is or has been a Jehovah's Witness? What is it like? What is the process of becoming one? What is life like for a Jehovah's Witness? I know a handful of people who are Jehovah's Witnesses, and some who have left the religion, but they don't talk much about it.

My pairents are Jehovah's Witnesses so I know a good deal about them. They beleve in the Bible 100% & try to live their lives accordingly,so that's why it may seem strict in today's world.

To become a Jehovah's Witnesses, ask one to come over to your house or invite them in the next time they call to discuss their religion more.If your still interested you can attend their meetings in the Kingdom Hall. There open to the public & anyone can attend. If your committed over a number of years doing the work they do, you can choose to get baptised & your officially one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

I did attend the meetings & go door to door when I was younger but It was my own decision to stop when I got a little older. At 13 or 14 religion was the last thing on my mind. But I still believe what they teach, after researching the Bible myself.

JimiTime · 31-07-2010 3:18pm

4g92mit wrote: »

My pairents are Jehovah's Witnesses so I know a good deal about them. They beleve in the Bible 100% & try to live their lives accordingly,so that's why it may seem strict in today's world.

Thats not the case. They believe in 'the society' 100%. They have sucessfully convinced their adherants that 'The society' and 'The Bible' are basically one in the same in terms of authority.

Have you ever witnessed a JW baptism? If so, can you tell me what is asked? If you recall it, that will give you insight into what I have said.

They have also subtely given titles to themselves which lodges itself into the heads of adherants. Titles like, 'The Truth'. The Truth is what Jesus is, as he said himself, 'I am The Truth'. Yet when a JW says 'Is he in the truth' about someone, they refer to, 'Is he a JW'.

They have also sucessfully instilled a defense mechanism in many of its adheranants to place a wall up against criticism. The programming plants the idea that someone who speaks against 'The Organisation' is 'apostate'. Like the Roman Catholic Church, the JW orgaisation has usurped authority and placed itself as a mediator between Christ and men.

To become a Jehovah's Witnesses, ask one to come over to your house or invite them in the next time they call to discuss their religion more.If your still interested you can attend their meetings in the Kingdom Hall. There open to the public & anyone can attend. If your committed over a number of years doing the work they do, you can choose to get baptised & your officially one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

And if at some stage after this, you see that the religion is not what it first seemed and decide to leave, you will become outcast and shunned. Though, I've heard that this is being looked at presently due to some legal cases that the organisation have met in the US.

But I still believe what they teach, after researching the Bible myself.

What did this 'Research' entail? Was it using the pretty spurious, 'New World Translation'? Did you use 'examining the scrptures'? etc etc. Did you ever try scratch beneath the surface of the organisation? Or, like so many, do you dismiss the testimonies of former members, or stories that show the organisation in a negative light? Do you have an automatic shield that shouts 'apostate' when there is anything negative spoken about the JW organisation?

To the OP: JW's are usually genuine folk, who are fairly well educated about their religion. I learned more about the bible from them, than I ever did from Catholocism. However, you must scratch beneath the surface to reveal the true colours.

I have immediate family who were members, and extended family who are still members. I studied with them, but thankfully, I never became a member.

SonOfAdam · 31-07-2010 4:41pm

Some JW's called to my door - years ago now - and started talking about their beliefs. I knew they didn't believe Jesus to be God but having asked them, using their own bible, who Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, refers to, they said "Jehovah God" and so I said "OK". Rev 21:6 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end - "who's this refer to?" I asked. "Jehovah God".
Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. "Who's this?" "Jehovah God!" getting a little impatient with me. "Ok, so in Revelation 1:17-18 where it says I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead and behold I am alive for ever and ever, when did Jehovah die ?" And one of them looked at it and then at me and said, "but Jesus died!" - the other one said "I never saw that before - we have to go now" I often wonder what happened to them -they seemed a little shocked as they went out the drive.

4g92mit · 02-08-2010 4:59pm

JimiTime wrote: »

Thats not the case. They believe in 'the society' 100%. They have sucessfully convinced their adherants that 'The society' and 'The Bible' are basically one in the same in terms of authority..

I’m assuming your talking about the Faithful & Discrete Slave . JW believe that spiritual food at the proper time is directed by Jesus spirit.
(Matthew 24:45-47. Luke 12:42-44)
A steward is someone that takes care of his master's estate while he is gone. So this steward is given much power. Some of that power is to act on its initiative to provide for the master's belongings. However since he was appointed by his master, and his master gave that trust into his hands then one could say that what the Steward says, represents what the Master says. Now this is not to say that the Steward is the same as the master but the Steward is given much freedom while the master is gone.
Now, what a good and faithful steward or slave does is try to do everything as his master would do while he is gone. Since this steward cannot directly communicate with the master then this steward must go back over what he knows about his master. We have the bible to go back over today. The FDS study the bible diligently, try to figure out what the master (Jesus) would do, and try to keep any of their actions in harmony with the past actions of their master. I believe the FDS does this today.
So since this FDS is appointed by Jesus, who is divine and the head of the Christian congregation, then his slaves actions could be described as approved or guided by his master. Does the FDS do it perfectly, no. Do they try to do everything based on the Bible, I say yes.

JimiTime wrote: »

Have you ever witnessed a JW baptism? If so, can you tell me what is asked? If you recall it, that will give you insight into what I have said.

I have witnessed a baptism but I was very young & I only remember the main part. As far as I know, most of the preparation is done before hand & its just a matter of the baptism on the day. More on this here http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/article_18.htm#q1_src

JimiTime wrote: »

And if at some stage after this, you see that the religion is not what it first seemed and decide to leave, you will become outcast and shunned. Though, I've heard that this is being looked at presently due to some legal cases that the organisation have met in the US..

You normally wouldn’t get baptised or allowed to until years attending the meetings & preaching gods word, so its unlikely you’d suddenly see that the religion is not what it first seemed. But you would NOT be disfelloshiped if you left the religion. The purpose of this disfellowshipping is to protect those who are assumed to be sincerely worshiping from being tempted by bad examples. (1 Corinthians 5:11)
For example a JW will get disfelloshiped if he/she was caught doing drugs. To show your repentance you would attend most of the meetings while being ignored by everyone else attending. This could last at least 6 months I believe, & after you would be accepted back.

JimiTime wrote: »

They have also subtely given titles to themselves which lodges itself into the heads of adherants. Titles like, 'The Truth'. The Truth is what Jesus is, as he said himself, 'I am The Truth'. Yet when a JW says 'Is he in the truth' about someone, they refer to, 'Is he a JW'.

JW believe their religion is the one true religion .http://www.watchtower.org/e/200803/article_01.htm

JimiTime wrote: »

They have also sucessfully instilled a defense mechanism in many of its adheranants to place a wall up against criticism. The programming plants the idea that someone who speaks against 'The Organisation' is 'apostate'. Like the Roman Catholic Church, the JW orgaisation has usurped authority and placed itself as a mediator between Christ and men. Did you ever try scratch beneath the surface of the organisation? Or, like so many, do you dismiss the testimonies of former members, or stories that show the organisation in a negative light? Do you have an automatic shield that shouts 'apostate' when there is anything negative spoken about the JW organisation?.

Iv heard very little criticism from former members, probably the most common is JW parents being strict on their kids, but id like to hear any stories you have.
If someone came up to me & starting saying negative stuff about the JW organisation Id listen to what they have to say. I personally wouldn’t “shout apostate”. I’m more interested in trying to give them an answer. But I suppose some may act differently when it comes to handling criticism. (2 Timothy 4:3-5. 2 Thessalonians 2:3)

JimiTime wrote: »

What did this 'Research' entail? Was it using the pretty spurious, 'New World Translation'? Did you use 'examining the scrptures'? etc etc.

The 2 books I found helpful are Insight of the scriptures vol 1&2 with the New World Translation Bible. http://www.watchtower.org/e/t13/article_01.htm When checking scriptures I cross reference on other Bibles too, & there is little difference.

JimiTime · 02-08-2010 5:22pm

gbee wrote: »

You start by going to Sunday school in you local temple.

After you've progressed enough you must become a missionary for a number of years. Fellow Witness's will put you up and feed you, they will have one or two spare rooms, if they don't they will give you a meal and or food.

After this period you can joint the Church, be a minister and even a Bishop, all men can be ministers and several may con-celebrate mass, they have a lovely little communion ceremony, tiny glasses of water and squares of bread.

You not only join a church you join a community, if you have a job or business you will be expected to contribute funds to the church, work is given to community members first, and if you have no work, some will be found for you.

In this way you become, as a community more or less self supporting and when the time comes to getting your own house, the community may purchase or build one for you.

Dress is a high degree of modesty with women wearing round high necks garments, long sieves and long dresses or pants.

Maybe you have mixed up JW's with another religion, as the above is NOTHING to do with JW's.

johndoe99 · 02-08-2010 5:22pm

all sounds like one of those Cults. I wonder what goes on behind closed doors, that would make a great Panorama Special or similar.

gbee · 02-08-2010 5:28pm

JimiTime wrote: »

Maybe you have mixed up JW's with another religion, as the above is NOTHING to do with JW's.

My apologies. I have. Sorry, I'll delete my post, thanks.

JimiTime · 03-08-2010 11:11am

4g92mit wrote: »

I’m assuming your talking about the Faithful & Discrete Slave . JW believe that spiritual food at the proper time is directed by Jesus spirit.
(Matthew 24:45-47. Luke 12:42-44)

No, I'm talking about the 'orgaisation' who has usurped the title of 'faithful and discreet slave' (More accurately translated as faithful and wise servant)

A steward is someone that takes care of his master's estate while he is gone. So this steward is given much power. Some of that power is to act on its initiative to provide for the master's belongings. However since he was appointed by his master, and his master gave that trust into his hands then one could say that what the Steward says, represents what the Master says. Now this is not to say that the Steward is the same as the master but the Steward is given much freedom while the master is gone.
Now, what a good and faithful steward or slave does is try to do everything as his master would do while he is gone. Since this steward cannot directly communicate with the master then this steward must go back over what he knows about his master.

They are, like the papacy, SELF APPOINTED as the Faithful and wise servant. This also assumes that Jesus left no-one from the apostles up to the founding of the JW's by CT Russell in the late 1800's.

Also, look at the illustrations of the master giving his servants talents? Was there just one faithful and wise servant? Certainly not. However, the JW's have usurped a position of mediator between Christ and man, and like Roman Catholocism, have declared themselves the One True Church.

We have the bible to go back over today.

Indeed we do. In all of mens religious wranglings over the years, the bible still stands as a testimony against false prophets and a tool for us to test by. A measuring rod.

So since this FDS is appointed by Jesus, who is divine and the head of the Christian congregation, then his slaves actions could be described as approved or guided by his master. Does the FDS do it perfectly, no. Do they try to do everything based on the Bible, I say yes.

First of all, I'd ask you to look at Deuteronomy 18, especially the last few verses. Now, how many times has this self appointed 'FDS', given us false prophecy in the name of God? Is this how God works? He appoints a servant, who then proceeds to declare the end, only to be shown to be false? God expects us to give them more chances? NEVER. A man who prophesises falsley can be written off immediately. As Deuteronomy states, 'Do not fear them'. The JW organisation have shown on a number of occasions that the Holy Spirit has been far from guiding them in these matters, the 1970's being the last failed end time prophecy. Yet they still insist that they are the One True Church. The very book they claim to study so diligently (the bible), is the very book that condemns them.

I have witnessed a baptism but I was very young & I only remember the main part. As far as I know, most of the preparation is done before hand & its just a matter of the baptism on the day.

Well you basically pledge alliegence to God AND the organisation.

You normally wouldn’t get baptised or allowed to until years attending the meetings & preaching gods word, so its unlikely you’d suddenly see that the religion is not what it first seemed.

Indeed, its much better than infant baptism. However, could you show me in the bible (the book you say they try follow 100%), where people must be tested etc before they get baptised?

But you would NOT be disfelloshiped if you left the religion.

Indeed. If one leaves of ones own accord they disassociate themselves. This is not supposed to bring the same level of shunning, but it certainly does.

Did you know that Elders recieve a special book for their eyes only when they become an elder? If you can get a read of that, its a bit of an eye opener.

The purpose of this disfellowshipping is to protect those who are assumed to be sincerely worshiping from being tempted by bad examples. (1 Corinthians 5:11)

That is certainly what is spun alright. Lets look at the scripture you allude to:

But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

I know of many a shunned person who match none of the criteria above. Indeed, rather than the above being a guide, those who honestly question the practices of the self appointed FDS, will find themselves on the end of a 'marking' (If you don't know what that is, get a read of that elders book), and basically reasons will be found to get them out the door.

JW believe their religion is the one true religion .

Indeed they do, yet among other things, they fail the very simple test. They prophecised in the name of God, and it didn't come to pass.

Iv heard very little criticism from former members, probably the most common is JW parents being strict on their kids, but id like to hear any stories you have.

TBH, just look at the internet and you'll see lots. I have many personal experiences, which I'll not get into.

If someone came up to me & starting saying negative stuff about the JW organisation Id listen to what they have to say. I personally wouldn’t “shout apostate”. I’m more interested in trying to give them an answer.

I hope you're right. All to often though, one is so confident in the JW organisation, that such comments are easy to make as you have already decided that there IS an answer, and its just a matter of directing the person towards it.

The 2 books I found helpful are Insight of the scriptures vol 1&2 with the New World Translation Bible. http://www.watchtower.org/e/t13/article_01.htm When checking scriptures I cross reference on other Bibles too, & there is little difference.

Ah the big green insight books. Good books, but far from researching the scriptures now is it? It stays safely nestled in the bosom of the organisation. To do any real research, you need to look a bit further away than books that reinforce your already held view that the JW's are the One True Church.

Bring your questions here if you wish, but you sound like me as a younger man at the moment:)

Lillylilly · 03-08-2010 11:28am

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, as my folks were practising. Like other parents, some are strict and some are not! I grew up in a typical family home, the only thing was that we spent one night a week at a bible study for an hour, one night at a meeting (like mass) for an hour, and every Sunday morning for two hours at another meeting. We didn't celebrate Christmas, Easter, Halloween or birthdays.

My parents don't smoke or curse, but I always felt that was a personal choice as opposed to the religion's input. It was a completely normal family. I hate the idea of the way Jehovah's Witnesses are portrayed in films as mental cult people. They are people who have a faith in God, that's all. I think there is one film where some kid said he was never on a fairground ride cos he was a Jehovah's Witness, which is just barmy!

I don't believe in organised religion now, and my siblings are the same. My dad still practices but my mam left years ago. None of us were "shunned". It's up to each individual how "into" it they are or aren't.

If a person is a baptised Jehovah's Witness and they do something bad like have an affair or commit a crime, they are disfellowshipped, which is effectively being ex-communicated. This person can then appeal it in a way, and have meetings with the elders to start coming to bible meetings again.

I like the way they don't baptise kids, you have to understand what you're committing to before they consider baptising you. And rarely will you meet someone who says they're a Jehovah's Witness without them actively practicing. I think that this is really respectful. They use the bible teachings in their everyday life. It's not that bad!!!

JimiTime · 03-08-2010 12:28pm

Lillylilly wrote: »

It was a completely normal family. I hate the idea of the way Jehovah's Witnesses are portrayed in films as mental cult people.

Indeed. It is ignorant ideas about them that can allow the genuine concerns be dismissed as nonsense too. I remember once hearing that JW's have to let themselves bleed to death if they get cut.

However, these barmy conceptions DO NOT take away from the fact that it IS a cult, with a serious power over its adherants.

They are people who have a faith in God, that's all.

Not so. They are an organisation which demands loyalty to its governing body. Its adherants must refuse life saving blood transfusions for one. That is NOT faith in God, that is loyalty to a self appointed body of 'shepherds'.

I don't believe in organised religion now, and my siblings are the same. My dad still practices but my mam left years ago. None of us were "shunned". It's up to each individual how "into" it they are or aren't.

When you say you left, were you ever baptised? If you were, did you just drift away from it, or did you actually resign as a JW?

If a person is a baptised Jehovah's Witness and they do something bad like have an affair or commit a crime, they are disfellowshipped, which is effectively being ex-communicated.

It can be for a lot less, and at the whim of the elders.

This person can then appeal it in a way,

Not in any meaningful way. If the elders have 'marked' you, you are gone. You know what 'marking' is?

It's not that bad!!!

Some wonderful, genuine people are JW's. Actively trying to work for God. However, IT IS that bad, as soon as one starts to question the organisation. God goes out the window, and the cultish ways take precedence.

Lillylilly · 03-08-2010 12:52pm

JimiTime wrote: »

Indeed. It is ignorant ideas about them that can allow the genuine concerns be dismissed as nonsense too. I remember once hearing that JW's have to let themselves bleed to death if they get cut.

However, these barmy conceptions DO NOT take away from the fact that it IS a cult, with a serious power over its adherants.

Not so. They are an organisation which demands loyalty to its governing body. Its adherants must refuse life saving blood transfusions for one. That is NOT faith in God, that is loyalty to a self appointed body of 'shepherds'.

When you say you left, were you ever baptised? If you were, did you just drift away from it, or did you actually resign as a JW?

It can be for a lot less, and at the whim of the elders.

Not in any meaningful way. If the elders have 'marked' you, you are gone. You know what 'marking' is?

Some wonderful, genuine people are JW's. Actively trying to work for God. However, IT IS that bad, as soon as one starts to question the organisation. God goes out the window, and the cultish ways take precedence.

Your post was really insightful, I've never heard of marking. I googled it there but it is not something I have ever known about/ noticed. Maybe it's just specific strict congregations that practice it. I wonder is a Witness as strict as their elders expect or something, because I have not experienced the strict aspect of the religion that others have. Maybe that's because of my parent's own choices and their friend's choices, and we have been members of a few congregations over the years.

And to answer your question, I, nor my siblings were ever baptised. We were too young. I stopped going to the meetings at about 14, out of choice. My siblings similarly stopped going when they chose. We all decided at different times that it wasn't for us. My mother was baptised though. She just stopped going to the meetings as opposed to actually resigning from it.

I don't actually know that much about the actual religious stuff- the reason I replied to this post was because the original poster asked what life was like as a Jehovah's Witness- that's my only experience. I steer clear of the bible

In regards to the blood thing- I absolutely don't agree with it, but understand that people feel that they deserve control over their own body.

JimiTime · 03-08-2010 3:08pm

Lillylilly wrote: »

Your post was really insightful,

Hang on while I go pinch myself:)

I've never heard of marking.

The average joe witness wont. Its in a book that one gets when they become an elder. This book for elders eyes only. Basically drills them in congrgational 'procedures'.

I googled it there but it is not something I have ever known about/ noticed. Maybe it's just specific strict congregations that practice it. I wonder is a Witness as strict as their elders expect or something, because I have not experienced the strict aspect of the religion that others have. Maybe that's because of my parent's own choices and their friend's choices, and we have been members of a few congregations over the years.

Indeed, an elders influence can have a huge effect on a congregation. I remember in one congragation, there used to be a social gathering of JW's on a friday night. Nothing sordid. Sometimes it was bowling, sometimes going for drink (a very moderate drink, as you can imagine). However, one elder with a bee in his bonnet, start giving announcements etc about social gatherings, and everyone stopped for fear of being ostracised. Such was the power.

And to answer your question, I, nor my siblings were ever baptised.

Nor was I, thankfully. My Brother and sister were though. I still have extended family who are members. Some are also elders. It makes a huge difference if you were or were not baptised.

We were too young. I stopped going to the meetings at about 14, out of choice. My siblings similarly stopped going when they chose. We all decided at different times that it wasn't for us. My mother was baptised though. She just stopped going to the meetings as opposed to actually resigning from it.

It is great that you seem to have parents that valued independance. Thankfully, mine never became members, and always instilled in me to question things etc.

I don't actually know that much about the actual religious stuff- the reason I replied to this post was because the original poster asked what life was like as a Jehovah's Witness- that's my only experience.

And it is the experience of many. However, for those who become deeply involved, its not so happy.

I steer clear of the bible

Shame. Do you mind me asking why?

In regards to the blood thing- I absolutely don't agree with it, but understand that people feel that they deserve control over their own body.

The problem is not in the decision they make, but rather, what that decision is based on, and that they also make decisions on behalf of their children.

The Smurf · 03-08-2010 10:50pm

JimiTime wrote: »

They are, like the papacy, SELF APPOINTED as the Faithful and wise servant. This also assumes that Jesus left no-one from the apostles up to the founding of the JW's by CT Russell in the late 1800's.

Er... bit of a difference here. Christ appointed Peter the first Pope, and (cf. Isaiah 22:22 etc...) this Office of Pope was to continue to the end of the world, to shepherd the Lord's Flock.

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter I]Kepha[/I; and upon this rock I]Kepha[/I I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

- Mt. 16:18

'Kepha' is Aramaic for rock. Our Lord spoke to Peter in Aramaic, not Greek. More here: http://www.fisheaters.com/rock.html

Some try to get around these verses in other imaginative ways, saying that Christ was talking only about Himself or only about Peter's faith, as below: [see link for chart: http://www.fisheaters.com/rock.html]

But reading the verse honestly, especially in context and without anti-Roman prejudice, shows the above sort of rendering to be -- well, quite absurd. It's almost as though they would have it read, "Simon, you are blessed! Know what I'm going to do, you old son of the Holy Spirit you? I'm going to call you Kepha, which means "rock," which the Koine Greek translators of what I am saying will write as "petros," which 1,500 years from now people called "Protestants" will insist means "little pebble." The Protestants will have it right: calling you a little pebble is what I indeed mean 'cause that's all you are -- a tiny, insignificant stone. Kind of Me to point that out after your profession of faith, eh? And, hey, forget about My having just called you blessed and how an insult simply doesn't fit the context of what I've been saying. It's the schizophrenia acting up again. Speaking of which, and by the way, while you're here, take the keys to Heaven, please; I don't really mean anything by this gesture at all, I just thought it'd be a nice thing to do." Silliness!

From the Douay Rheims commentary:

"Thou art Peter"... As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz., that he to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, St. John 1. 42, should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be, next to Christ himself, the chief foundation stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

[18] "Upon this rock"... The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the vulgar language of the Jews which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had said in English, Thou art a Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the church was to be built: Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ, by building his house, that is, his church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder, St. Matt. 7. 24, 25.

[18] "The gates of hell"... That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself, or his agents. For as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ.

[19] "Loose upon earth"... The loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence; the power of which is here granted.

Thus we see the Papacy was instituted directly by Christ Himself.

JimiTime · 03-08-2010 11:41pm

The Smurf wrote: »

Er... bit of a difference here. Christ appointed Peter the first Pope,

Thus we see the Papacy was instituted directly by Christ Himself.

No difference at all, both claim to be the One True Church on the basis of shaky theology. Peas in a pod.

gbee · 04-08-2010 10:05am

The Smurf wrote: »

Er... bit of a difference here. Christ appointed Peter the first Pope, .

Pope of what exactly and precisely?

gbee · 04-08-2010 10:11am

Lillylilly wrote: »

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness,

Thanks for this lovely story. And thanks for your perfect reply to Jimi, I did not like the way he was like a poker through your ashes of experience.

Thanks.

JimiTime · 04-08-2010 12:59pm

gbee wrote: »

And thanks for your perfect reply to Jimi, I did not like the way he was like a poker through your ashes of experience.

, I like that. Very good line. 'A poker through your ashes of experience'.

tigerblob · 04-08-2010 4:23pm

Thanks for the input everyone, I feel a little more educated now. I like how I got relatively positive as well as negative views. Yeah I wanted info more about life as a JW rather than the religion side of it, but actually when JimiTime was talking about the religious side too it was more interesting than I expected and it was stuff I didn't know too.

4g92mit · 04-08-2010 10:47pm

QUOTE=JimiTime;67251553]No, I'm talking about the 'orgaisation' who has usurped the title of 'faithful and discreet slave' (More accurately translated as faithful and wise servant)

They are, like the papacy, SELF APPOINTED as the Faithful and wise servant. This also assumes that Jesus left no-one from the apostles up to the founding of the JW's by CT Russell in the late 1800's.
Also, look at the illustrations of the master giving his servants talents? Was there just one faithful and wise servant? Certainly not. However, the JW's have usurped a position of mediator between Christ and man, and like Roman Catholocism, have declared themselves the One True Church..

Where in the Bible does it say that the FDS are “self appointed"?
It says the opposite. (Deuteronomy 18:18. Matthew 24:45)
Like Jesus, his footstep followers who have been spirit begotten and anointed with holy spirit can be spoken of as anointed ones. (2 Corinthians 1:21)

It is true that Russell did not claim to be some special revelation from God. In the Watch Tower of July 15, 1906 (page 229), Russell humbly replied: “No, dear friends, I claim nothing of superiority, nor supernatural power, dignity or authority; nor do I aspire to exalt myself in the estimation of my brethren of the household of faith, except in the sense that the Master urged it, saying, ‘Let him who would be great among you be your servant.’ (Matthew. 20:27)
You have to ask your self too, what would Russell gain in his position. Unlike many religious leaders he got no financial gain for all his work, in fact he sold his business to fund making literature.
I would recommend watching “Jehovah’s Witnesses Faith in Action. Part 1 Out of Darkness.” A new DVD that came out recently. Part 2 should be out soon. I gives good insight on the matter.

First of all, I'd ask you to look at Deuteronomy 18, especially the last few verses. Now, how many times has this self appointed 'FDS', given us false prophecy in the name of God? Is this how God works? He appoints a servant, who then proceeds to declare the end, only to be shown to be false? God expects us to give them more chances? NEVER. A man who prophesises falsley can be written off immediately. As Deuteronomy states, 'Do not fear them'. The JW organisation have shown on a number of occasions that the Holy Spirit has been far from guiding them in these matters, the 1970's being the last failed end time prophecy. Yet they still insist that they are the One True Church. The very book they claim to study so diligently (the bible), is the very book that condemns them.

Indeed they do, yet among other things, they fail the very simple test. They prophecised in the name of God, and it didn't come to pass.

Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January　1883, page　425) “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December　15, 1896, page　306) They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah’s name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May　15, 1947, page　157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August　15, 1950, page　263) “The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers becaues unlike Pauls day, Satan is the ruler at the moment.(1 john 5:19 Revelation 12:9) (2　Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Proverbs 4:18, Matthew 24:36)
Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.(Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6).

Well you basically pledge alliegence to God AND the organisation.

Jesus said that his disciples would be baptized “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit.” (Matthew 28:19) This means that a baptism candidate recognizes the authority of Jehovah God and of Jesus Christ. (Psalm 83:18; Matthew 28:18) He also recognizes the function and activity of God’s holy spirit, or active force.—(Galatians 5:22,　23; 2　Peter 1:21)

Indeed, its much better than infant baptism. However, could you show me in the bible (the book you say they try follow 100%), where people must be tested etc before they get baptised?

Romans 12:2 Says “And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.”
It just makes sense to know the Bible & its teachings before jumping into baptism.

Indeed. If one leaves of ones own accord they disassociate themselves. This is not supposed to bring the same level of shunning, but it certainly does.

Its up to YOU how to act if you leave, your not told how to act by anyone.

Did you know that Elders recieve a special book for their eyes only when they become an elder? If you can get a read of that, its a bit of an eye opener.

What’s the name of the book?

That is certainly what is spun alright. Lets look at the scripture you allude to:

But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

I know of many a shunned person who match none of the criteria above. Indeed, rather than the above being a guide, those who honestly question the practices of the self appointed FDS, will find themselves on the end of a 'marking' (If you don't know what that is, get a read of that elders book), and basically reasons will be found to get them out the door.

Walk into your nearest Kingdom Hall this Thursday night & ask all the questions you like on the practices of the “self appointed” FDS. See how long it takes them to show you the door.

TBH, just look at the internet and you'll see lots. I have many personal experiences, which I'll not get into.

I only ever get to hear one side of the story with any criticism on JW over the internet. The Bible even warnes us of apostates from the Christian congregation. (2 Peter 2:1; Heb 6:4-8)

Ah the big green insight books. Good books, but far from researching the scriptures now is it? It stays safely nestled in the bosom of the organisation. To do any real research, you need to look a bit further away than books that reinforce your already held view that the JW's are the One True Church.

What books do you use to research the Bible?

Hebrews 11:6 says "Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please him well, for he that approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him"

Bring your questions here if you wish, but you sound like me as a younger man at the moment:)

Same here.

I haven’t asked many questions, but what religion do you believe in, if any?

Jehovah's Witnesses

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