Gels During Marathon

Muppet Man

Lads - need some advice for my first marathon in Longford.

Where can I get Sports Gels to consume during the race?
How often do I need to take them during the marathon?
Practical issue - how to carry them during the race?

I know it will clearly differ from runner to runner, so just some guidelines on what NOT to do would be good.

Expected pace will be a 4 hour marathon. Slow, I know, but guranteed to be PB :P

My training is up 18 miles at the moment and havent started taking Gels at all. Calves hurt like hell, but Lungs OK at that point.

Thanks,
Muppet Man.

Peckham

The only advice of what not to do, is that you shouldn't take gels in the race unless you've trained with them before. Some people just can't stomach them, and you don't want to find out at mile 18 in the marathon that you're one of those people.

Purchase a batch of them now and start taking them during your long runs to see how you get on. I use the Lucozade ones which are stocked in Boots (and probably other places too). Might be worth getting a mixture of brands/flavours and see which you prefer. Although you haven't got much time to be trying different combinations.

As for practicality carrying them during a race - you can pin them to the inside of the waistband of your shorts (although make sure to cover that part of your skin in vaseline/bodyglide), buy a gel belt, or just carry them in your hands. Again, practice this and see what suits you best.

As for how many to take - some people take one every 30 minutes, others might just take one during the entire race. It all comes down to experience and knowing when you're going to need that boost (and taking them 15-20 minutes before that so it has time to work into your system).

Don't just take them because you think that's what you're supposed to be doing - lots of people don't feel they need them and that energy drinks give them the same benefit.

Aimman

Most good sports shops & bodybuilding/nutrition shops have them available. Look around the areas for protein shakes etc.

If you are in Dublin, you can pick them up in the Cycle SuperStore just off the Greenhills Road or Mick Dowlings shop in Terenure.

Look out for brands like PowerBar, SiS & High5

Some people staple them onto parts of their running shorts, or attached them to a running belt with elastic bands.

Practice running with them attached to different places, as they might end up being abrasive and cutting into your skink of you attach them in the wrong places. Also, you should start taking them on your long runs, to get used to them now, rather then your body having a bad reaction to them on the big day.

plodder

There's a great range of gels in Wheelworx (Fonthill retail park, Dublin). They are also on the web, if you're not in Dublin.

If you do a search on "gels" you'll find a number of threads with more information about them.

I keep them in a running belt, and one or two more in an armband

Muppet Man

Thanks folks - really appreciate the tips. I want to get them this week so that I can start trying them out for my long Saturday run. Close enough to the Greenhills road and FontHill, so might give them a look after work.

Thanks again folks
Muppet Man

RubyK

Warning - idiotic questions below

If you staple them to your shorts, could they break open on you? Do they come in different flavours? Do you take them with water or on their own?

2nd Row Donkey

You take them with water so they get absorbed quicker.
I put them in my short pockets.. they're only tiny and you don't even notice them.

And yes they come in different flavours from different suppliers/brands.

there was a 2 or 3 page thread about them in the last week or 10 days, you should be able to find it in the last 5 pages or so.

plodder

RubyK wrote: »

Warning - idiotic questions below

If you staple them to your shorts, could they break open on you? Do they come in different flavours? Do you take them with water or on their own?

They won't break open. The packaging is designed to be pretty robust that way. The brands mentioned above by Aimman come in different flavours. And ost of them have to be taken with water. But anyones that are isotonic (eg High5 isogels) don't have to be because they are quite liquid.

2nd Row Donkey

Aimman wrote: »

Also, you should start taking them on your long runs, to get used to them now, rather then your body having a bad reaction to them on the big day.

Oh yes.. believe me, they can cause a bad reaction on race day!

tunguska

Get yourself a pair of tri-shorts, theres a pocket on each hip big enough to take 2 gels each. Which means, if you need it, you could carry 4 gels with you. Saves the messiness of pinning things to the inside of your shorts and that sort of malarkey.

These are the ones I use. You can fit 2 Isogels in each of the side pockets.

http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=205&idproduct=34082

RubyK

Thanks for the help (sorry for the hijack MM).

I wonder how practical this would be for carrying gels, etc? Might flap about too much though, and I'd end up dumping it after a couple of miles Guess I'm going to have to start experimenting!

macinalli

For training you might not need special shorts/belts - I usually just leave them in my car and plan my routes that I pass by when I'll need a gel. Saves carrying a water bottle too. Before buying special shorts etc you should also decide on what gels you're going to use on race day. Isogels are my favourite but they're much bulkier than the non-istonic options and might not fit in some pockets.

FWIW, I did a marathon last weekend with 4 gels - 2 on each hip with safety pins. My first time trying this and they flap about a bit, but after 2 minutes you forget they're even there. Cheap and easy!

plodder

I got one of these for carrying gels. Between that, the armband, and I can fit a couple more in the arse pocket of my shorts, I think I'm well covered.

RubyK

plodder wrote: »

I got one of these for carrying gels. Between that, the armband, and I can fit a couple more in the arse pocket of my shorts, I think I'm well covered.

That looks to be a better thing, than the belt I posted, cheers

Must pop into one of the sports shops, and get myself a few gels to try out. Thanks again for the tips!

pgmcpq

OP and RK:

This works for me - but again try it in training - it takes a few goes to get it right - my first ever effort cost me a pair of shorts (hence tips 2,3, and 4) !.

http://coachlevi.com/running/how-to-pin-energy-gels-to-your-running-shorts/

The only thing I would add is :

1) cover the edge of the gels packets with medical tape to avoid any danger of chafing ( later in the race the last thing you need is to be trying to juggle a vaseline covered gel !!)
2) pin in through the material - not the elastic.
3) use two hands to pull it off the shorts. One to hold the tab and shorts, one to pull the gel. Get it right and the pull should leave you with the gel open in your hand.
4) cut the top of the gel a little - just enough so that it can be opened with one good (two handed) pull.

tisnotover

RubyK wrote: »

Thanks for the help (sorry for the hijack MM).

I wonder how practical this would be for carrying gels, etc? Might flap about too much though, and I'd end up dumping it after a couple of miles Guess I'm going to have to start experimenting!

I wore exactly that in Cork marathon RubyK, carried 5 gels on it (had one just before start. Would also recommend SIS gels, very easy to take! No issues with it flapping about !

plodder

pgmcpq wrote: »

OP and RK:

This works for me - but again try it in training - it takes a few goes to get it right - my first ever effort cost me a pair of shorts (hence tips 2,3, and 4) !.

http://coachlevi.com/running/how-to-pin-energy-gels-to-your-running-shorts/

The only thing I would add is :

1) cover the edge of the gels packets with medical tape to avoid any danger of chafing ( later in the race the last thing you need is to be trying to juggle a vaseline covered gel !!)
2) pin in through the material - not the elastic.
3) use two hands to pull it off the shorts. One to hold the tab and shorts, one to pull the gel. Get it right and the pull should leave you with the gel open in your hand.
4) cut the top of the gel a little - just enough so that it can be opened with one good (two handed) pull.

Interesting idea that. Some of those gel packets aren't the easiest to open. So, that sounds like a neat way to do it.

MisterAdam

Is no one at all sceptical about these energy gels? You've all given good advice about how to carry them during a race. And some advice about how often you should take them.
But there's no evidence for the gels themselves. As far as I know, they have no advantage over a nice warm bowl of porridge other than coming in a handy foil packet. And taste - I hate the taste of porridge.
Anyway, I could write for hours about energy gels. But then I'd have written for hours about energy gels and I wouldn't have had any sleep.
My advice - look for some evidence before you start handing over too much of your precious precious money. Until then - try using jelly babies. There's probably no difference.

plodder

MisterAdam. I'd like to see you eat a bowl of porridge on the run Jelly babies are good though, but I think it stands to reason that gels when mixed with water are more likely to be absorbed into the blood stream quicker than solid food like jellies. There's nothing magical about them. All they are is (mostly) glucose, which is what the muscles need for fuel.

Also, some of them have other stuff in there like sodium and caffeine, which are definitely proven to have a beneficial effect on runner's energy systems.

I wouldn't bother with them though if I wasn't training for a marathon. And I don't really use them much during training. So, the cost is not an issue. The problem with the marathon is that it is right at the limit (or maybe beyond the limit for many of us) of how far you can run without running out of the main body fuel. Running out of CHO at 20, 22 or even 25 miles of a marathon is pretty catastrophic and anything that can prevent that from happening is worth investing in imo.

Krusty_Clown

MisterAdam wrote: »

Is no one at all sceptical about these energy gels? You've all given good advice about how to carry them during a race. And some advice about how often you should take them.
But there's no evidence for the gels themselves. As far as I know, they have no advantage over a nice warm bowl of porridge other than coming in a handy foil packet. And taste - I hate the taste of porridge.
Anyway, I could write for hours about energy gels. But then I'd have written for hours about energy gels and I wouldn't have had any sleep.
My advice - look for some evidence before you start handing over too much of your precious precious money. Until then - try using jelly babies. There's probably no difference.

Taking on calories during a marathon would be well documented from a scientific perspective. Do you avoid any form of calorie intake during a marathon (e.g. sports drinks, fruit, gels, etc?) Porridge is a tough one to carry during a marathon, and even tougher to ingest on the hoof. The point of gels is that you don't have to rely on sports drinks etc.

Personally, I'll have my porridge and bagel in the morning before the race, and my gels and water during the race. Scott Jurek is a great one for eating very natural foods during an ultra race, but he typically also has a team to provide him with the food he needs on the run.

MisterAdam

First of all, I'm not saying they're rubbish and I'm not saying don't take them. But I'm naturally skeptical and especially when it involves handing over money to companies making dubious claims. I really hate pseudoscience-based marketing.
As for calorie intake during running - yeah, of course I do. During long runs I usually carry a bottle of homemade sports drink - orange juice mixed with table salt and diluted to be isotonic. I'm not cheap. I just get a kick out of making stuff myself. I've only ran one marathon but during it I took two energy gels.
My real problem with energy gels is that I really doubt that they're better than a mars bar or a banana. And they're probably worse than an isotonic sports drink. It's not the idea of taking calories during a race I'm skeptical about - it's the way of doing it.
I'd be very interested to see what the optimum rate of intake is. As far as I know, the average body stores around 2000kcal in glycogen and this can be increased by endurance training. That's enough for approximately 3 hours exercise. So when should you start eating? Also, when should you stop? If you won't have absorbed the energy by the end of the race then there's no point.
I see two advantages to energy gels - one is packaging. And I really don't think jelly babies are that inconvenient. The other one is caffeine - which has been shown to be of a very slight advantage during a race.
Personally I'd rather have stations with sports drinks available every three miles or so but that's not practical for every midweek run!
Really though guys, I could type for hours - it's an interesting topic but I have to sleep.

ThisRegard

Bananas aren't great to take during the race as they take relatively long enough to digest so any energy from them will be slow in coming whereas energy gels provide a quicker source, not all them have caffeine either.

I don't think it's pseudso-science either, the opposite in fact I reckon.

average_runner

I used the luzoade sports ones, got them in boots and found them better for me. Had a arm belt for holding them so was great.

Jelly Babies or glucose sweets are also great. Just keep your energy levels up.

plodder

Mars bars are full of fat as well, which (afaik) impedes the digestion of carbohydrate.

I agree though, isotonic sports drink, would be as good or better, but the fact is that most marathons provide water, and maybe a small amount of sports drink, if any at all. So, gels are a way of achieving a similar effect as the sports drinks using the water provided.

rod flanders

Not sure about the Longford marathon but last years Dublin marathon they handed out the gels at some water stations. It was first my marathon and my first time to take the gels. They worked great and I must had about 5 during the race.

Krusty_Clown

Based on my current weight (11.5 stone), a marathon distance will consume 2,754 calories, which is a hell of a lot of porridge!

I think we all agree that we need to consume some form of calories during the race. The choice of calories is really up to the individual. I prefer not to rely on the organizers provisions, as you do not know what brand of isotonic drink/gels they will provide, where, or even if they will be available. So I carry my isotonic gels, which are light, cheap (each one costs about the same as a Mars bar), and I can take them when I want (rather than at the intervals the organizers choose to make them available).

Have you ever eaten a Mars bar during a marathon?! It's not easy. Certainly wouldn't be my choice of race nutrition.

2nd Row Donkey

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Have you ever eaten a Mars bar during a marathon?! It's not easy. Certainly wouldn't be my choice of race nutrition.

Yes, well it was a half marathon actually. They had them at one of the water stations and it was a baaAAADDD idea.

+1 on the porridge. Taken a few hours before hand with lots of honey.

I'm gonna pick up some gels from that bicycle place on the greenhills road and see if they are any addition or not.

Krusty_Clown

I have eaten some too. They usually hand out pieces of Mars bar at the Connemarathon before the 'hell of the west'. I remember trying to eat one after covering 36 miles this year. I had to spit it out, as I didn't have the hydration to break it down and swallow it. But each to their own.

tunguska

MisterAdam wrote: »

First of all, I'm not saying they're rubbish and I'm not saying don't take them. But I'm naturally skeptical and especially when it involves handing over money to companies making dubious claims. I really hate pseudoscience-based marketing.
As for calorie intake during running - yeah, of course I do. During long runs I usually carry a bottle of homemade sports drink - orange juice mixed with table salt and diluted to be isotonic. I'm not cheap. I just get a kick out of making stuff myself. I've only ran one marathon but during it I took two energy gels.
My real problem with energy gels is that I really doubt that they're better than a mars bar or a banana. And they're probably worse than an isotonic sports drink. It's not the idea of taking calories during a race I'm skeptical about - it's the way of doing it.
I'd be very interested to see what the optimum rate of intake is. As far as I know, the average body stores around 2000kcal in glycogen and this can be increased by endurance training. That's enough for approximately 3 hours exercise. So when should you start eating? Also, when should you stop? If you won't have absorbed the energy by the end of the race then there's no point.
I see two advantages to energy gels - one is packaging. And I really don't think jelly babies are that inconvenient. The other one is caffeine - which has been shown to be of a very slight advantage during a race.
Personally I'd rather have stations with sports drinks available every three miles or so but that's not practical for every midweek run!
Really though guys, I could type for hours - it's an interesting topic but I have to sleep.

I understand your point and Im not crazy about the claims that are made by gel makers in relation to how effective their products are. But at the very least gels are calories that you can take on board if you get hungry during a run. Porrige is great but as was said already, its very hard to eat that when youre running. So in terms of conveniance gels are very practical. But Ive also found these bars go down very easily and dont require water with them. Ive literally eaten them on the run and no problems with digestion or having to make an emergency jump behind a bush:


http://www.tropicalwholefoods.com/

The one down the bottom of the page(the 5-fruit salad bar)is the one Id eat on the run, but the others go down easy aswell right before a run, the only difference between them and the 5-fruit salad bars is that you would need to take them with water.


(Note: I know Im kind of going back on what I said before about not wanting to use gels during training and all(gel-gate from my training log). So before any of you get on my case about being a hypocrite(sosa, roadrunner, krusty, VR, aero2k).........zip it:). I confess ok, ive been using gels every now and again).

Krusty_Clown

I try not to use gels during training either (no water or gels on my 16.5 mile run on Tuesday) but feel that they are a necessary evil during races (and occasionally are a necessary evil during training too).

I'm not a big fan of over-manufactured synthetic food-stuffs (I generally avoid all sports-drinks too). I might be able to get through a marathon without any gels, but I don't really see the point of putting 4+ months of training at risk just to prove the point. Even if they only give you a psychological boost, it's a boost nonetheless.

aero2k

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I try not to use gels during training either (no water or gels on my 16.5 mile run on Tuesday) but feel that they are a necessary evil during races (and occasionally are a necessary evil during training too).

I'm not a big fan of over-manufactured synthetic food-stuffs (I generally avoid all sports-drinks too). I might be able to get through a marathon without any gels, but I don't really see the point of putting 4+ months of training at risk just to prove the point. Even if they only give you a psychological boost, it's a boost nonetheless.

I only use them during training so I'm used to them when it comes to a race.
Depending on which liturature you believe, it takes at least 100 cal to run a mile. That's 2620 for a marathon, hopefully most of it from glycogen. It's probably better to err on the safe side and take a few gels.

There also seems to be a big benefit to brain function if you keep blood sugar levels topped up - apparently they can drop alarmingly when liver glycogen is used up, which can happen quickly.

MisterAdam

Yeah, maybe they are more palatable than mars bars and more pratical than porridge.

Still, I'd love to do some research on it - get 200 people running the Dublin City Marathon and divide them into 4 groups. You could either randomize the groups or match participants based on predicted marathon times. Then estimate everyone's calorie requirements. Tell the participants how much they should need to eat/drink. One group would be given a commercial energy gel. The other three would get either a sports drink, a regular sugary snack or, for the unlucky controls, artificially sweetened and flavored water. The sports drink and water would have to be handed out along the course. Perhaps a fifth group could be given more complex carbohydrates that are absorbed more evenly.
Then measure the outcomes to see who does best. You could calculate average finishing times for each cohort. Or base it on the relationship to their predicted finishing times. And even asking about the subjective experience would have some value.
Hmm, I wonder if my little sister wants to enter the young scientist competition.
Or maybe somebody has already done this.

Krusty_Clown

One of the UK colleges was doing a big Hi5 gel experiment in DCM last year (I think Woddle was one of the volunteers). Don't think we ever saw the outcomes though. The volunteers had to take a gel every 20 minutes or something awful like that. Blurgh....

aero2k

Very hard to avoid a placebo effect as well - it would be obvious if you got gel rather than sports drink.

You'd need to repeat the experiment a few times for it to be meaningful. It took me a few goes to like gels in races, although I'd been convinced of the usefulness from the first time I tried them on a training run.

RubyK

tisnotover wrote: »

I wore exactly that in Cork marathon RubyK, carried 5 gels on it (had one just before start. Would also recommend SIS gels, very easy to take! No issues with it flapping about !

That's great to read tisnotover, thanks a mill! I'll have a look around for those gels too, and try them out.

Mr Slow

It may have been mentioned already (I haven't gone through each post) but I find the Isogels great no water required and easy on the stomach. I get them at Wheelworks in Fonthill

rainbow kirby

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Have you ever eaten a Mars bar during a marathon?! It's not easy. Certainly wouldn't be my choice of race nutrition.

Had half a Mars bar at mile 23 of DCM last year. Manna from heaven when I couldn't stomach my gels any more.

Krusty_Clown

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Had half a Mars bar at mile 23 of DCM last year. Manna from heaven when I couldn't stomach my gels any more.

See, the other half of the Mars bar would have made you very sick.

I have found once or twice that having too much sugar can be just (if not more) detrimental than having not enough calories. So I generally stay away from sports drinks and stick with the gels, as you can control the sugar intake more readily.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

See, the other half of the Mars bar would have made you very sick.

I can see myself at mile 23, agonising over which half of the Mars bar it's safe to eat :eek:

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

I can see myself at mile 23, agonising over which half of the Mars bar it's safe to eat :eek:

The top. Nougat is for quitters.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The top. Nougat is for quitters.

Excellent, I've written that down in my race notebook!

Wally Runs

Interesting, I was a big gel fan when I started first, consuming five or more gels in a marathon, convinced that I would hit the wall without them. Now I am down to one or none, with no noticeable affects (not including time, I have always been slow). I still take the sports drink and love the rice crispy mallow bars, even better if they have smarties mixed in with them. I have seen people get into an awful larder because they could not get their brand of gel at the EXPOs but I think up to a point they are crutch which is necessary when starting out but one you will move away from over time and experience.

I had read of study of marathon runners that found that if they thought they would hit the wall in race, they would! It also found that women were less likely to hit the wall, being more optimistic then men! To some extent I think it is the same with gels, BUT everybody is different!

I saw in Dunes for the first time a Lucozade stand with the full range of gels, bars and powders, not sure if they were cheaper than a sports shop but worth a look.

littlebug

I got a few of the lucozade gels in Boots in Galway today. They don't actually officially stock them but they keep a stash of them behind the counter for "some man that runs marathons". Sorry to that man if you're reading I've taken some of your stash and oops I've revealed where your secret supply is on the internet

Krusty_Clown

Wally Runs wrote: »

Now I am down to one or none, with no noticeable affects (not including time, I have always been slow). I still take the sports drink and love the rice crispy mallow bars, even better if they have smarties mixed in with them.

But you see that sports drink and crispy mallow bar (with or without smarties) is your alternative to gels (and every bit as unhealthy!). Gels don't do anything magic, they just give you carbs. There is no psychological crutch. There is only food intake.