Contract between builder and client

Bicycle

Hi folks,

Is there anywhere I could find a generic contract that I could adapt to use between my builder and myself, please?

Our builder has issued a fairly simple couple of pages and I'd like something far more detailed.

Thanks in advance.

imitation

I reckon myself the best thing to do is to get RIAI contract drawn up by a professional. Your leaving yourself open to hassle with a DIY job here.

galwaytt

I used an RIAI one, but I modified it: it's obviously designed in favour of the builder, not the client, so we put a pen through a few bits of it, and went with that.

DOCARCH

galwaytt wrote: »

I used an RIAI one, but I modified it: it's obviously designed in favour of the builder, not the client, so we put a pen through a few bits of it, and went with that.

Unless you get legal advice, just be very careful about ammending the terms of 'standard' building contracts.

BTW, a lot of builders would not necessarily agree with your comment that the the RIAI contract is designed in favour of them!

whelzer

I'm currently planning a big extension to the rear and side of my house and assuming I'm going to use the contract on onlinetradesmen.ie. It can be found here: http://www.onlinetradesmen.ie/Proper...2/Default.aspx.

I've no connection to this site and have cleared this post with mods...

Paul

Bicycle

Thanks everyone, very much appreciated.

We have a professional involved in the design process but relations are strained at the moment and their speed is pedantic to say the least currently.

Both the builder and ourselves are anxious to get moving. So much so that we bypassed the professional when submitting the commencement certificate.

Paul, I'll download and have a look at that document.

muffler

Bicycle wrote: »

So much so that we bypassed the professional when submitting the commencement certificate.

A little bit off topic but Im curious here. Do you have anyone lined up to supervise the construction of the house and issue stage payment cert for mortgage etc?

If you dont have you given your "professional's" details on the commencement notice?

Bicycle

Thanks Muffler, I've PM'd you.

icbarros

galwaytt wrote: »

I used an RIAI one, but I modified it: it's obviously designed in favour of the builder, not the client, so we put a pen through a few bits of it, and went with that.

Hi galwaytt,
May I ask you how did you actually modified the RIAI Contract? Did you just crossed the clauses? Did you do an addendum?? ...??
I'm looking at the RIAI White Contract for a small job and there is a particular clause that I'm not too happy about...

DOCARCH

Icbarros, what clause are you not happy with?

icbarros

DOCARCH wrote: »

Icbarros, what clause are you not happy with?

Clause 2.5:
"If any delay is caused by the Employer, and the Contractor gives prompt notice of this delay, the Contractor will be entitled to any loss directly caused by this delay."
Also Clause 2.2 - Variations - may need to be modified since we are not using Bill of Quantities and I'm not sure if we should ask for a Schedule of Rates for such a small job.

braftery

Hi there,

Without knowing the scale of the job it is hard to give sensible advice on contracts.

However I can say this, having operated in several different businesses including the construction industry and having had to excercise contracts with solicitors and the courts ... the law is an ass .. and the only ones who will gain from this process are the legal profession.

All contracts will have clauses that one party feel favour the other party. This is the nature of contracts. You could spend the entire duration of your build trying to find a form of words in your contract that is agreeable to both sides.

There has to a reasonable level of protection in the contract and you must also accept a reasonable level of risk in it. After that you have to trust the person or organisation you are about to contract with. Just a little bit at least !!

In construction, if you agree a sensible management system.

Define the scope of works.
Detail Drawings take all the argument out of this area.

Define what is acceptable tolerance and what is bad workmanship.

Agree timely and regular checks and sign offs for completed and acceptable work.

Make your site is tidy.

Keep all your relationships professional

Dont lose your temper .. even when you see the maddest things happen on your job !!

Then things will probably work out !

In the end try to have fun ... although that is pretty hard sometimes

JuniorB

braftery wrote: »

Hi there,

Without knowing the scale of the job it is hard to give sensible advice on contracts.

However I can say this, having operated in several different businesses including the construction industry and having had to excercise contracts with solicitors and the courts ... the law is an ass .. and the only ones who will gain from this process are the legal profession.

All contracts will have clauses that one party feel favour the other party. This is the nature of contracts. You could spend the entire duration of your build trying to find a form of words in your contract that is agreeable to both sides.

There has to a reasonable level of protection in the contract and you must also accept a reasonable level of risk in it. After that you have to trust the person or organisation you are about to contract with. Just a little bit at least !!

In construction, if you agree a sensible management system.

Define the scope of works.
Detail Drawings take all the argument out of this area.

Define what is acceptable tolerance and what is bad workmanship.

Agree timely and regular checks and sign offs for completed and acceptable work.

Make your site is tidy.

Keep all your relationships professional

Dont lose your temper .. even when you see the maddest things happen on your job !!

Then things will probably work out !

In the end try to have fun ... although that is pretty hard sometimes

Some good advice there Braftery... all great in theory but it's very hard to de-personalise it when someone elses mistake or incompetence could cost you 100's and possibly 1000's. Don't lose your temper!! I've been fit to do a lot more than lose my temper at some stages!!
They say it's like childbirth though ... you'll get over and forget about the trauma eventually

DOCARCH

icbarros wrote: »

Clause 2.5:
"If any delay is caused by the Employer, and the Contractor gives prompt notice of this delay, the Contractor will be entitled to any loss directly caused by this delay."
Also Clause 2.2 - Variations - may need to be modified since we are not using Bill of Quantities and I'm not sure if we should ask for a Schedule of Rates for such a small job.

I'd suggest you could exclude any clause in the contract, but only with the agreement of the contrcator in advance. You can't really propose a contract and then use it as a pick and mix.

+1 to braftery's advice/comments above.

braftery

Thanks guys.

JuniorB, I know what you mean !

I finished my own build about 3 years ago, I had a main contractor, an architect and an engineer and still there were days that i could have shot them all .. and yes they did cost me thousands !

but keeping cool also meant I was able to work through the issue and agree with all parties where the fault lay ... and with a compromise the additional cost on this issue was shared.

Maybe it is just that I delivered our baby a few years ago and I have forgotten all the pain !!

PS: In my last post the line should read: Make sure your site is tidy I hate missing a typo !

may2001

icbarros wrote: »

Clause 2.5:
"If any delay is caused by the Employer, and the Contractor gives prompt notice of this delay, the Contractor will be entitled to any loss directly caused by this delay."
Also Clause 2.2 - Variations - may need to be modified since we are not using Bill of Quantities and I'm not sure if we should ask for a Schedule of Rates for such a small job.

As pointed out by another poster, I would be very careful about amending standard conditions of contract by omitting clauses as it may give rise to completely unintended and unforeseen consequences. Certainly it should not be done without legal advice.

If clause 2.5 is deleted then this may impact upon other clauses that refer to this clause, whihc may then be impossible or difficult to interpret.

Secondly this clause provides a mechanism for dealing with the eventuality of delay by the Employer such as the late provision of information etc. If such an event occurs and clause 2.5 has been deleted then the contractor may still be able to recover his loss through the courts along with his legal costs. I have a good idea which way I would prefer to deal with the delay!

Clause 2.2 provides a well proven mechanism for the valuation of variations. If this is removed how is the value of variations to be agreed as they will almost certainly arise on all but the most straightforward jobs.

Schedules of Rates can be as simple as a 2 page list of rates for the most common types of work required on the job or can be as detailed as a Bill of Quantities measured in accordance with a Standard Method of Measurement. However, it should be noted that a list of rates which does not impact upon the tender price make up is likely to provide less value for money on the variations than a quantitified Bill of Quantities.

I think that it generally would be more productive to ensure that the specifications and drawings are as comprehensive and as complete as possible than to expend effort in modifying the standard form of contract. The RIAI contracts are generally reasonably fair in the obligations that they place upon both parties.

braftery

+1 to may2001's last post ...

very very good advice .. in particular the last paragraph.

icbarros

Thanks to all that provided advice, particularly may2001.
may2001's advice confirmed the way I was thinking and the way I end up doing it. I was just not 100% sure because of the size of the job and I was curious to know how others are modifying standard contracts.
Thanks again.