The Cove

Bob_Harris

I'm currently watching this on More4. It will be starting at 10pm on More4+1.

I'd highly recommend anybody reading this to watch it, it is really good.

M.J.M.C

I only got to see the first 1/2 of it before i got too tired and had to go to bed.

I recorded the rest and it will be the first thing I watch when i get home.

It was a real eye opener, oh my god!
I felt ill at parts of it thinking how selfish humans can be

Clare Bear

The adverts were too much for me so I wouldn't be able to watch it but I hope it opens peoples' eyes who were oblivious to this kind of thing.

M.J.M.C

i'll be the first to admit i'd no idea about any of this.
23,000 dolphins killed each yeah, some of the japs didn't even know about it.

Yeah the ads were every few minutes but im going to buy this on bluray

jd83

I was watching it. Absolutly horrific. Smug japanese iwc delegate. Saying there doing nothing wrong and only doing it to stop whales eating all the fish. If your doing nothing wrong why do they go to such lenths to stop people filming it.

yeah, it was horrific allright..hearing the dolphins scream while being killed..

M.J.M.C

I think the most heart breaking moment, that I saw (ive only seen the first half) was seeing that half killed dolphin swimming towards the two people on shore for help diving over the nets...

I really wish there was something we could do, this video really made me so angry.
And that guy "private space" - I'm fairly certain i wanted to kill him.

Only seeing this article too now:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/theticket/2010/0611/1224272243032.html

landkeeper

lads and lasses i'm not normally one to vent my spleen about enviromental issues but last night i watched the documentary 'the cove' if you get a chance watch it or do a bit of research on it
the slaughter of 20,000 + dolphins is a bit ott in my book just so the japaneese can feel traditional
i was that inscenced i emailed the japaneese embassy in Dublin with my thoughts and informed them i'll no longer be buying anything of japaneese origin
rant over

Tristram

Are you e-mailing embassies of all foreign countries who engage in the mass slaughter of animals? Wonder how many cows, chickens, sheep etc. are slaughtered annually in Ireland. To me the more disconcerting issue that was the lack of transparency surrounding the sourcing and sale of dolphin meat.

jap gt

this hasnt much to do with hunting, its more of an animal rights thing i think

M.J.M.C

jap gt wrote: »

this hasnt much to do with hunting, its more of an animal rights thing i think

I disagree.

The Cove is a 2009 American documentary film that describes the annual killing of dolphins in a National Park at Taiji, Wakayama, in Japan from an anti–dolphin-hunting campaigner's point of view

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cove_(film)




I wouldn't go so far as not buying anything japaneese, but I see your point.
It's as the video says, a small group of people doing this that sickens me, so for that I can't be angry at all japaneese people. But some good points.

Id agree with landkeeper in that im not one to usually get upset about environmental issues but this video changed that.
I was so mad seeing them kill so many dolphins, as if they owe the dolphins.
We SHARE this planet with humans and animals FFS!

jwshooter

i heard hugh fearnley whittingstall ,killed them all and is having a monster BBQ at river cottage HQ .

jap gt

it sounds pretty bad alright, but i still dont think this is the right section, people here talk about hunting deer, fox etc, im pretty sure it would be illegal to hunt them in ireland

jwshooter

M.J.M.C wrote: »

I disagree.

The Cove is a 2009 American documentary film that describes the annual killing of dolphins in a National Park at Taiji, Wakayama, in Japan from an anti–dolphin-hunting campaigner's point of view

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cove_(film)




I wouldn't go so far as not buying anything japaneese, but I see your point.
It's as the video says, a small group of people doing this that sickens me, so for that I can't be angry at all japaneese people. But some good points.

Id agree with landkeeper in that im not one to usually get upset about environmental issues but this video changed that.
I was so mad seeing them kill so many dolphins, as if they owe the dolphins.
We SHARE this planet with humans and animals FFS!

it has noting to do with hunting .it might have more to do with fishing again very little .

Vegeta

Now I am not trying to be smart or anything here but what is the actual bad part of killing 20,000 dolphins? Is there a lot of waste in dolphin fishing, like keeping the fin and dumping the body etc etc

Did hunters in Ireland not kill circa 30,000 deer last year?

jwshooter

Vegeta wrote: »

Did hunters in Ireland not kill circa 30,000 deer last year?

whats your point .

It wasn't me!

jwshooter wrote: »

whats your point .

Presumably that the figure of 20,000 is out of context and that the returns show a perfectly normal and accepted activity here can kill 50% more animals, and yet, in context, it won't shock us at all. Now, while the blood and death and horror the film is going to show is going to be evocative, especially for the lay townie type, how many of those are going to quietly watch an injured deer being dispatched and gralloched without feeling pretty nasty either? It's just a big number which doesn't mean anything without a context.

tricky D

Vegeta wrote: »

Now I am not trying to be smart or anything here but what is the actual bad part of killing 20,000 dolphins? Is there a lot of waste in dolphin fishing, like keeping the fin and dumping the body etc etc

Did hunters in Ireland not kill circa 30,000 deer last year?

The problem isn't so much the numbers, it's the callous and cruel way they're generally left to die slowly. Hunters and slaughterers from our locale strive for a much 'cleaner' kill which is commendable. The shark fin harvesting you refer to demonstrates this cruelty perfectly. It would be easy to kill the shark and harvest the fin, but no they take the fins and just throw the sharks back in to die slowly and painfully. That kind of cruelty is simply unnecessary.

Vegeta

jwshooter wrote: »

whats your point .

I fail to see how a hunter can get outraged at the killing of 20,000 dolphins when we hunters kill 30,000 deer. It seems a bit off

As I said in the previous post, I have not seen the show so I am asking what exactly is it about dolphin fishing that makes it worse than hunting

Vegeta

tricky D wrote: »

The problem isn't so much the numbers, it's the callous and cruel way they're generally left to die slowly. Hunters and slaughterers from our locale strive for a much 'cleaner' kill which is commendable. The shark fin harvesting you refer to demonstrates this cruelty perfectly. It would be easy to kill the shark and harvest the fin, but no they take the fins and just throw the sharks back in to die slowly and painfully. That kind of cruelty is simply unnecessary.

Oh ok so it's a pretty nasty business by the sounds of it. Thanks for the post

landkeeper

well the fact that whole families of dolphins are rounded up and herded into a small area where they are repeatedly stabbed with what look like lances and are left to die while they flail around in their own blood was what i found pretty horrific
After all these are extremely intelligent mammals
if that was done with family groups of deer then jw would be shouting from the rooftops to stop it

Vegeta

landkeeper wrote: »

well the fact that whole families of dolphins are rounded up and herded into a small area where they are repeatedly stabbed with what look like lances and are left to die while they flail around in their own blood was what i found pretty horrific
After all these are extremely intelligent mammals
if that was done with family groups of deer then jw would be shouting from the rooftops to stop it

Jesus, I thought they would just net them and then dispatch them on deck with a bolt gun or something

Does sound very very different to deer hunting/shooting here.

I thought it was just the numbers which offended you which is where my confusion came in.

jwshooter

Vegeta wrote: »

I fail to see how a hunter can get outraged at the killing of 20,000 dolphins when we hunters kill 30,000 deer. It seems a bit off

As I said in the previous post, I have not seen the show so I am asking what exactly is it about dolphin fishing that makes it worse than hunting

20,000 is just a number . i dont know the facts of the cull ,so i cant comment on it .

30,000 deer are culled for a reason .

you cant compare the two ....my point is the thread has no business on a hunting forum .

Dusty87

I have an email that was sent to me about a European country who do similiar as a ritual for boys becoming men or something. The endangered whales are herded in and beaten with hooks until they die. I dont know how to post email pages but if someone wants the email pm me

landkeeper

well it may possibly not belong here but i posted it here for a reason :rolleyes:
if i post it in an animal welfare section then its certainly going to get lots and lots of support from all types of people mainly non hunting /shooting types
by posting it here,! i thought that it might get some support and possible action/reaction from people who are not cuddly bunny types but rather those who do activly hunt and shoot for sport and reacreation
obviously i'm mistaken

Vegeta

jwshooter wrote: »

20,000 is just a number

Which was exactly my point

clo4cb

Did you guys watch it all?

I made it to the part where the girl was talking about the dolphin that got over the net and was swimming towards them and it was dying.

I couldn't watch it.

CokaColumbo

I don't understand how people on this forum are disgusted by the slaughter of dolphins when they themselves enjoy the act of killing animals themselves.

You can tell yourself that killing a deer is somehow necessary, that it isn't needless slaughter, but I'm pretty sure the Japanese would provide some similarly questionable justifications.

Can somebody explain to me why killing a deer is somehow better than killing a dolphin?

Dusty87

Are you not reading the posts?? Its the way they are killed!!!

landkeeper

CokaColumbo wrote: »

I don't understand how people on this forum are disgusted by the slaughter of dolphins when they themselves enjoy the act of killing animals themselves.

You can tell yourself that killing a deer is somehow necessary, that it isn't needless slaughter, but I'm pretty sure the Japanese would provide some similarly questionable justifications.

Can somebody explain to me why killing a deer is somehow better than killing a dolphin?

it isn't ,but the manner in which it is done and the fact that there is no selection over young old male female makes a huge difference
Deer stalking is probably the most selective type of shooting there is
the other looks to be the most unselective imaginable

jap gt

CokaColumbo wrote: »

I don't understand how people on this forum are disgusted by the slaughter of dolphins when they themselves enjoy the act of killing animals themselves.

You can tell yourself that killing a deer is somehow necessary, that it isn't needless slaughter, but I'm pretty sure the Japanese would provide some similarly questionable justifications.

Can somebody explain to me why killing a deer is somehow better than killing a dolphin?

i have no problem with them being killed as long as its humane, i think if it must be done then as long as its quick, the video the op watched is just butchering dolphins, you will also find that deer are shot and dispatched very quickly, thats the difference

M.J.M.C

Could the two threads be merged
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67027674

Thanks

Vegeta

M.J.M.C wrote: »

Could the two threads be merged
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67027674

Thanks

Gona send it over to TV and hopefully mods there will merge them

Mr E

Cove threads merged.

expectationlost

they are toxic and the practice is entirely corrupt quit with your contrarian rationalisations

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought it was a very good documentary and it was disturbing to watch at times. I've seen other videos on Youtube about the practice and it's a nasty business. One image that stood out was when they had several dolphins laid out on the sand and one of the fishermen stood on one. You could see the creature move revealing it was still alive.

The way they distress the creatures before killing them and the manner in which they go about killing them is indefensible. The fact the creatures are full of dangerous levels of mercury is another negative.

You would think the world would do something about this considering how intelligent these creatures are.

Tristram

I'm not sure how dolphins perceived intelligence has any real relevance to the debate on slaughter. Is there a threshold that I'm unaware of? It's okay to engage in the mass slaughter of chicken and pigs. Maybe it's not okay to engage in the mass slaughter of cute and cuddly seals? Anthropomorphism is messy.

M.J.M.C

Tristram wrote: »

I'm not sure how dolphins perceived intelligence has any real relevance to the debate on slaughter. Is there a threshold that I'm unaware of? It's okay to engage in the mass slaughter of chicken and pigs. Maybe it's not okay to engage in the mass slaughter of cute and cuddly seals? Anthropomorphism is messy.

Have you watched the cove?

Bob_Harris

Tristram wrote: »

I'm not sure how dolphins perceived intelligence has any real relevance to the debate on slaughter. Is there a threshold that I'm unaware of? It's okay to engage in the mass slaughter of chicken and pigs. Maybe it's not okay to engage in the mass slaughter of cute and cuddly seals? Anthropomorphism is messy.

Pigs, cows, chickens etc are all farmed for consumption. Dolphins are not, so it is not sustainable to "cull" them is this fashion.

If you watched the documentary you would have heard of the town a few miles away from Taiji who were culling dolphins, who now have no dolphins left and have to import dolphins from Taiji for their water park (@ $150,000+).

And yes, intelligence does play a part.

Mr.Nice Guy

Tristram wrote: »

I'm not sure how dolphins perceived intelligence has any real relevance to the debate on slaughter. Is there a threshold that I'm unaware of? It's okay to engage in the mass slaughter of chicken and pigs. Maybe it's not okay to engage in the mass slaughter of cute and cuddly seals? Anthropomorphism is messy.

I would say it's relevant because their intelligence marks them as extremely special creatures. It strikes me as a dreadful waste considering we can perhaps learn a lot more about their mental limits by studying them in greater numbers.

Of course you could say pigs are intelligent too but then they have been accepted as sources of food by the wider public in the West. In The Cove, when they queried Japaense people in the big cities like Tokyo and Kyoto, the majority seemed bewildered that some of their compatriots were eating dolphins.

Just seems like the dolphin market is a very odd, niche market in Japan and considering the health hazards with the mercury levels, there are strong arguments for eradicating it.

M.J.M.C

Good points Mr Nice Guy and Bob Harris

It angered me that Japan was giving money to other poorer countries in return for their support in the iwc

Michael B

One of the most disturbing things I've ever seen. I've never felt so helpless watching something. I don't see it ending anytime soon either. Awful.

Tristram

M.J.M.C wrote: »

Have you watched the cove?

Yes, I have. :rolleyes:

Bob_Harris wrote: »

Pigs, cows, chickens etc are all farmed for consumption. Dolphins are not, so it is not sustainable to "cull" them is this fashion.

If you watched the documentary you would have heard of the town a few miles away from Taiji who were culling dolphins, who now have no dolphins left and have to import dolphins from Taiji for their water park (@ $150,000+).

And yes, intelligence does play a part.

Dolphins may not be farmed for consumption but they are either slaughtered for consumption or captured to be trained for commercial use. Again, I did watch the documentary so I am indeed aware of the town which you are referring to.

Is the problem that dolphin slaughter is unsustainable or the slaughter itself? Is it okay to capture and train dolphins for commercial profit working in water parks? I'm not really sure what your point was. If you could clarify it would be much appreciated! Also would like to hear how you think intelligence plays a part if you have time.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I would say it's relevant because their intelligence marks them as extremely special creatures. It strikes me as a dreadful waste considering we can perhaps learn a lot more about their mental limits by studying them in greater numbers.

Of course you could say pigs are intelligent too but then they have been accepted as sources of food by the wider public in the West. In The Cove, when they queried Japaense people in the big cities like Tokyo and Kyoto, the majority seemed bewildered that some of their compatriots were eating dolphins.

Just seems like the dolphin market is a very odd, niche market in Japan and considering the health hazards with the mercury levels, there are strong arguments for eradicating it.

Dolphins may or may not be "special" creatures. They are animals. They can be eaten. They are eaten. Do they deserve to be more deeply researched? Sure. Lots of creatures do. Should this prevent the killing or capture of more dolphins for consumption or display? No. As far as I am aware the species of dolphin hunted by Japanese fishermen are not currently listed as endangered. This may be down to a fault in statistical measurement but until they can be categorised as an endangered species I don't believe there is any call for a ban on dolphin hunting.

For me your second point is the most pertinent. Lack of awareness and the deliberate misleading of the public in terms of what they are actually consuming and what it contains. This is the real issue to my mind.

Bob_Harris

Tristram wrote: »

Dolphins may not be farmed for consumption but they are either slaughtered for consumption or captured to be trained for commercial use. Again, I did watch the documentary so I am indeed aware of the town which you are referring to.

Is the problem that dolphin slaughter is unsustainable or the slaughter itself? Is it okay to capture and train dolphins for commercial profit working in water parks? I'm not really sure what your point was. If you could clarify it would be much appreciated!

Not really sure what you want clarification on.

Tristram wrote:

Also would like to hear how you think intelligence plays a part if you have time.

Is it OK for humans to mass kill other humans? Is it OK for humans to mass kill a species which is argued to be equally as intelligent as a human (in relation to the environment they live in, obviously you cannot directly compare the intelligence of different species)

Lets say there was a new species discovered which could communicate with humans, and were proven to be as, or more, intelligent than humans and which posed no threat to humans, would it be OK to kill these for a niche food market and capture them for entertainment purposes?

expectationlost

stop digging bob

bb12

Just thought I'd raise this thread as the killing season of slaughter and captivity of dolphins is occuring right now in Taiji, Japan. There are a number of 'Cove monitors', ie people from all over the world, who are there to bear witness to the terrible cruelty that is happening. They are helpless to do anything else but document and publish what they see.

Check out these groups on facebook for up to the minute details and pictures of what is going on there.

Even if only one of you lends your voice to these campaigns, it will help. Hopefully one day this horrible practice will end. I just hope it's not when they've killed all the dolphins in that area.

https://www.facebook.com/SeaShepherdCoveGuardiansOfficialPage

https://www.facebook.com/SaveJapanDolphinsTaijiCoveMonitorsPage

https://www.facebook.com/ricobarrysdolphinproject

brian_t

bb12 wrote: »

Just thought I'd raise this thread as the killing season of slaughter and captivity of dolphins is occuring right now in Taiji, Japan.

You might get a bit of a debate going if you started a thread in AH.
Probably a bit wasted here.

bb12

thanks for the suggestion...i'll give it a try although i can;t see it going down well there! but sure there;s no such thing as bad publicity i guess,,,it might inspire some silent onlookers to learn more about the subject.