Is it too late to save my season?!

cfitz

Hi,

The end of the track season is fast approaching and things haven't gone to plan for me at all. I finished last season with 2 new PBs - 4:18 for 1500m and 9:10 for 3000m. I missed a lot of winter training but got back into regular training from mid-February. My first interval sessions began at the beginning of April and my early season races were fairly promising (a very comprehensive win in a small cross-country race and a 9:19 3000m). I thought that training was progressing fairly well, most of it was done on my own and some of my tempo runs didn't go great but most of the interval sessions seemed good and I was very happy with how things were going.

But though the training seemed to go fairly ok (and I've missed almost nothing due to injury), the times stopped coming down. I was very patient to begin with and I put the poor times down to the conditions or the way the race went etc. But now I have just a few races remaining and I've only ran 4:25, 9:19, and 16:22. And despite all the training, my races in April seem to have been as strong as anything I've done since. Here are some details of my workouts and a link to my training log:

Last year

---

Phase 1: A few weeks of just runs
Phase 2: 1 tempo plus 2 sessions (6x600s / 3x1200s @3k pace with short recovery)
Phase 3: 1 tempo, 1 hill run plus 1 session (alternating weekly between 600s and 1200s)
Phase 4: A period of 1 tempo, 1 hill run plus 1 session (shorter fast session with longer recoveries)

Also, regular 100m strides, circuits, core, and flexibility work.


This year

---

Phase 1: About 6 weeks of runs and some tempos
Phase 2: 1 tempo plus 1 session (reaching 8x400 @3k pace with 35 sec recovery)
Phase 3: 1 tempo plus 1 session (4x300m with 1 min, 5 min break, 4x200m with 1 min)

Also, regular 300m/600m strides. Very little circuit, core, or flexibility work until recently.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67024250#post67024250


So, is it possible for me to turn things around in the next 2-5 weeks? I can make plenty of guesses myself, so please only reply if you can see something that you are confident will help me.

Thank you very much!

gerard65

Why did you change your VOmax sessions from 600/1200 last year to 400s this year?

ecoli

One thing you could do is try doing an 800m race to get a bit of zip back in the legs as you seem to have the strength just lacking a bit in the speed department.

Here is a session i would recommend for this. 4 x 300m @ 43-45 w/ 3 min recovery, 7 min recovery after these and the 2x300m same pace. This is a really tough 800m specific session which floods the body with lactic acid simulating what is needed to create more speed as this looks like the element which is lacking

Again this session i would only do once or twice in the 5 weeks it will add a bit of variety to your training which could be just what you need

woodchopper

No harm in doing one of your man sessions but in my opinion strenght equals speed. If you are training specifically for 9:10 you must get used to running at that speed for more than one or so minutes.

ie 5 by 600 at sub 9:10 speed 90 seconds recovery drop it to 75 if you want or whenever you feel your heart rate has come down significantly. Remember it is not a race in training but at the same time the pace should be met. If you cannot run these reps at this speed or close enough then no amount of 'speed' work will help you break the time. It would be a case of lacking the same strenght as last year. If your 5k 10k times are the same as last year your strenght is fairly similiar therefore trying some mile pace workouts will help. Aerobic fitness is never finished every athlete can get as fit and strong as much as they like. Certainly blasting out 300s if never done before in the training cycle is destined for a bad ending.

ecoli

woodchopper wrote: »

No harm in doing one of your man sessions but in my opinion strenght equals speed. If you are training specifically for 9:10 you must get used to running at that speed for more than one or so minutes.

ie 5 by 600 at sub 9:10 speed 90 seconds recovery drop it to 75 if you want or whenever you feel your heart rate has come down significantly. Remember it is not a race in training but at the same time the pace should be met. If you cannot run these reps at this speed or close enough then no amount of 'speed' work will help you break the time. It would be a case of lacking the same strenght as last year. If your 5k 10k times are the same as last year your strenght is fairly similiar therefore trying some mile pace workouts will help. Aerobic fitness is never finished every athlete can get as fit and strong as much as they like. Certainly blasting out 300s if never done before in the training cycle is destined for a bad ending.

I agree 400s seem a little short to be doing on a regular basis maybe incorporate a little longer ones as well as you the speed. The reason i suggested for the shorter session was given his times in the 1500m dont seem to fully correlate with that of his 3k indicates that his aerobic base seems to be of a decent level
Also i agree with your comment about the 300s should not be introduced at this late stage but given his use of shorter reps (3s and 2s) already in his training plan i think that he would be safe enough
Best of luck with what ever you decide

Gringo78

cfitz wrote: »

So, is it possible for me to turn things around in the next 2-5 weeks?

What distance are the remaining races? More towards 800m/1500m or 5000m?

shels4ever

Just wondered did you do any race phase specific training , I havent races track in years but would have usually done some shorter races ie 800's to build up leg speed prior to going after faster times. You do have a few week left so maybe just need a little boost in confidence too. Are you starting to think of the XC season already or whats the plan for the rest of the track season?

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

One thing you could do is try doing an 800m race to get a bit of zip back in the legs as you seem to have the strength just lacking a bit in the speed

ooops just spotted that you said that .

ecoli

shels4ever wrote: »

ooops just spotted that you said that .

haha its okay great minds think alike:D

cfitz

gerard65 wrote: »

Why did you change your VOmax sessions from 600/1200 last year to 400s this year?

Last year my coach had me doing 600s and 1200s, this year he changed it to 400s. Decided I'd ask here to get some outside opinions.

cfitz

Gringo78 wrote: »

What distance are the remaining races? More towards 800m/1500m or 5000m?

Looks like maybe: 1500m, 3000m, 1500m, 3000m. There aren't many options at this stage...

cfitz

shels4ever wrote: »

Just wondered did you do any race phase specific training , I havent races track in years but would have usually done some shorter races ie 800's to build up leg speed prior to going after faster times. You do have a few week left so maybe just need a little boost in confidence too. Are you starting to think of the XC season already or whats the plan for the rest of the track season?

I am going away travelling later in the year so I'm not too tied down with when to start into cross-country training. My body doesn't feel over-worked so maybe I could extend this season for another while but there doesn't seem to be many track races left anyway.

cfitz

woodchopper wrote: »

No harm in doing one of your man sessions but in my opinion strenght equals speed. If you are training specifically for 9:10 you must get used to running at that speed for more than one or so minutes.

ie 5 by 600 at sub 9:10 speed 90 seconds recovery drop it to 75 if you want or whenever you feel your heart rate has come down significantly. Remember it is not a race in training but at the same time the pace should be met. If you cannot run these reps at this speed or close enough then no amount of 'speed' work will help you break the time. It would be a case of lacking the same strenght as last year. If your 5k 10k times are the same as last year your strenght is fairly similiar therefore trying some mile pace workouts will help. Aerobic fitness is never finished every athlete can get as fit and strong as much as they like. Certainly blasting out 300s if never done before in the training cycle is destined for a bad ending.

Last year I mostly just raced 1500s and 3ks so I really compare times over the longer distances. Do you think I should do a set of 5x600 as a test - and if I can't hit the splits then that means I'm just not in good enough shape?

woodchopper

cfitz wrote: »

Last year I mostly just raced 1500s and 3ks so I really compare times over the longer distances. Do you think I should do a set of 5x600 as a test - and if I can't hit the splits then that means I'm just not in good enough shape?

The session outlined is a 3k pace session. If the athlete wants to run say sub 9:10 then the 600m should be at or near that pace. If you were to run them at 9:15 pace then thats fine, training is not racing so there is no need to chase the exact time . However if you are running them at ie 9:35 to 9:45 then something is wrong either your burned out or aerobically not strong enough to run 9:10. However sense you have ran 9:18 I doubt this is the problem. Getting used to running sub 9:10 pace in training may help you break the barrier. For example if somebody wants to learn how to play a song on the guitar they practice that song until they learn it, they dont go off and learn another song in the hope of learning the song they want to learn.

Since you are training for the metric mile these sessions need to be adherned to as well. Perhaps do two sessions a week in non race week at 1500 and 3k pace and leave a few days between them for recovery runs. Perhaps Tergat can be of some assistance on this thread as he is the man who knows all.

gerard65

cfitz wrote: »

Last year my coach had me doing 600s and 1200s, this year he changed it to 400s. Decided I'd ask here to get some outside opinions.

I did'nt know you had a coach. The reason I asked was to identify what benefit you would get from switching 600/1200s to 400s. Last years intervals seemed perfect as a VO2MAX session but 8x400 - 35sec rec seems to fall between two stools. Your VO2MAX or LT systems are not really going to fully benefit as the session is too short and the intervals are too slow for a REP workout. It maybe a bit late in the year to make any difference now but you might sit down with your coach and try workout where your season went wrong.

shels4ever

cfitz wrote: »

I am going away travelling later in the year so I'm not too tied down with when to start into cross-country training. My body doesn't feel over-worked so maybe I could extend this season for another while but there doesn't seem to be many track races left anyway.

I think you hit top form late last summer too, think i remember you running a BHAA race and winning very easy , That was early august , I guess it depends how you ahve been feeling during the race. Going out fast enough or trying to run even splits. I'd say ditch the watch dont worry about laps and jsut race. Get into a fast race and see how you go. From your log you seems to be going very well.

Gringo78

Can't comment on the different 3k sessions being suggested but as regards your races, maybe a change in race tactics might help.

I don't think its a coincidence that the opening lap of the your 3000m PB race in 2009 was actually the slowest of all your races. When you ran 9:13 & 9:10 last year, you actually ran 2-3sec faster in the first 400m in the 9:13 race, but got to 2800m in the same time for both races. For the 9:10 you pulled out a 31sec final 200m compared to 34sec 200m for the 9:13 race, so you had a lot left in the tank when you didn't blaze off in the opening 400m.

You identify that your aim is 72sec laps in a 3000m race in order to get sub 9. But actually, you seem to have a very good finishing kick so maybe a more conservative 73/74 opening lap could see you not be burned out on laps 5-7 where you normally seem to lose it. Your last few 3k's you've blazed off, even deliberately aiming for a fast first lap of 69/70sec. From reading a good few of your race reports, that style of racing does not seem to yield results for you. Even on your bad races you've always dug deep in the last 200m and had a great finishing kick, you should trust that to win back the few seconds given up by a conservative opening. It can also mentally be a lot easier to keep the intensity up if you are catching people as the race goes on rather than always having a few pass you at 600m. When you run a 70 for the opening lap, correcting back to 74sec is a big jump and you can end up easing up too much quite easily so your intensity is yo-yoing around for the first 3 laps....better 74-73-72 and the 3 sec you gave up in the opening 2 laps will be taken back in your big kick finish.

cfitz

shels4ever wrote: »

I think you hit top form late last summer too, think i remember you running a BHAA race and winning very easy , That was early august , I guess it depends how you ahve been feeling during the race. Going out fast enough or trying to run even splits. I'd say ditch the watch dont worry about laps and jsut race. Get into a fast race and see how you go. From your log you seems to be going very well.

Hopefully you're right. I had a quick look back at one of my 300m sessions from around when I hit form last year and the times were pretty similar. I get very caught up with split times even though I'd probably give other people the exact same advice you've just given me!

cfitz

Gringo78 wrote: »

Can't comment on the different 3k sessions being suggested but as regards your races, maybe a change in race tactics might help.

I don't think its a coincidence that the opening lap of the your 3000m PB race in 2009 was actually the slowest of all your races. When you ran 9:13 & 9:10 last year, you actually ran 2-3sec faster in the first 400m in the 9:13 race, but got to 2800m in the same time for both races. For the 9:10 you pulled out a 31sec final 200m compared to 34sec 200m for the 9:13 race, so you had a lot left in the tank when you didn't blaze off in the opening 400m.

You identify that your aim is 72sec laps in a 3000m race in order to get sub 9. But actually, you seem to have a very good finishing kick so maybe a more conservative 73/74 opening lap could see you not be burned out on laps 5-7 where you normally seem to lose it. Your last few 3k's you've blazed off, even deliberately aiming for a fast first lap of 69/70sec. From reading a good few of your race reports, that style of racing does not seem to yield results for you. Even on your bad races you've always dug deep in the last 200m and had a great finishing kick, you should trust that to win back the few seconds given up by a conservative opening. It can also mentally be a lot easier to keep the intensity up if you are catching people as the race goes on rather than always having a few pass you at 600m. When you run a 70 for the opening lap, correcting back to 74sec is a big jump and you can end up easing up too much quite easily so your intensity is yo-yoing around for the first 3 laps....better 74-73-72 and the 3 sec you gave up in the opening 2 laps will be taken back in your big kick finish.

Thanks very much for taking the time to go back and analyse my races. I've thought about the slower first lap approach before but you've made quite a convincing argument for it there. In cross-country races I normally start out more conservatively than my opposition and progress through the field. Perhaps I need to be confident and not always trying to be ahead of the clock.