Halfords: Carrera Virtuoso Vs Carerra Vanquish

route66

I was in Halfords today and while waiting for an inspection on my Son's MTB, spent 10 minutes comparing the Carerra Virtuoso (€440) and the Vanquish (€660). Is the Vanquish really worth 50% more?

I'm not currently in the market for a road bike but I might be in the future so it was an interesting comparison for me. My current bike is a do-it-all Trek 7.3 FX and I liked the idea that the Virtuoso can take mudguards and could therefore be an all-season alternative to my Trek, albeit in a much faster form factor.

I'm a bit clueless about bikes but the thing that immediately grabbed me was the difference in finish between the 2 bikes. The sides of the fork on the cheaper virtuoso were so wrinkled when viewed in the light that they looked like a badly repaired car wing:eek: By comparison the Vanquish has carbon forks and they were very well finished but even more noteworthy was the complete absence of any weld marks in the frame with the exception of where the tubes come together at the bottom bracket; I honestly thought the frame might be carbon, it was so well finished.

If I was buying today, I spend the extra on the dearer Vanquish, and keep my Trek for the commutes.

Enough of the dreaming, back to reality

P.S. As an aside, was also very happy at the service I got today in the Carickmines branch of Halfords.

velo.2010

Don't get too carried away by the finish on bikes of that price! Maybe when your spending thousands of euro it might come into play. How a bike rides, the quality of the frame, components and wheels for that money are what is important.

If this is your first road bike maybe you should consider a bike shop instead of Halfords. Those guys are fine(got a bike myself from them, no problems) but you'll get that extra care and attention needed when considering a road bike for the first time.

At your price point the Vanquish looks value considering the component spec, however many on here would simply keep away from Carerra frames. Perhaps there is some snobbery in that but mainly there are more respected and reliable brands with bikes for that price. Giant and Trek have their intro bikes at around that price. However the component spec is slighly below that of the Vanquish- Shimano 2300 instead of Sora/Tiagra.

If you could make the stretch and cough up about E750 you could get a Trek 1.2 that comes with simliar spec and the knowledge of a quality brand plus a good looking bike allround. I can only see a price from Wheelworx of E770 but with haggling you could get that for cheaper in another store, maybe Cyclesuperstore!

Good luck with whatever you choose!

route66

Thanks for the response - Some interesting comments.

I should have made it clearer - I am not in the market for a bike at the moment (or - more accurately - I'm not allowed to be in the market:rolleyes:); I'm a tyrekicker.

From what I have read in these pages, many frames from big-name manufacturers are made in the same factory in Asia. Would this suggest that the Carrera frame on the Vanquish would be at least as good as, say the Trek or a basic Cube? As I said, the finish of the frame was close to perfect; much better than that of my Trek which is not too different in terms of RRP (€575). Of course, my comments are all about appearance, maybe the geometry is rubbish? I would just guess that a frame finished with this level of care must be pretty good. If you combine a good frame with the good quality components the Vanquish boasts, how can you go wrong? Various online reviews would suggest that these bikes are actually ok.

I should also emphasise that I am not into the fashion side of biking. I'm just back a few hours from a run in the Dublin mountains and - let's just say - I wasn't kitted out in Lycra:D In fact, I think I'd enjoy driving the Skoda of the bike world.

Unless the Vanquish is more Lada than Skoda ?

BostonB

The Carerra bikes get a hard time on this forum, but I can't remember anyone having any direct experience of them. ( I could be wrong) On some UK forums you see more people with them, often as a 2nd bike, and I don't remember reading any complaints about them.

However I'd have to say you seem to get much better attention in a different shop to Halfords. I've found most Halfords bike staff to pretty non interested in customers. The odd exception ok.

You get a slightly better spec on the Carerra or Boradman than a Giant, Specialized or Trek at the same price. I'm not mad on the paint scheme on the Carerra's though.

ednwireland

review for the virtuoso
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/virtuoso-09-34691

valour
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/product/valour-07-16709

i remeber a review in cycling active and all they complained about was the paint job being boring

papac

FWIW a Carrera came first in a sub 500 quid road bike grouptest in Cycling plus a while back. Also cheapest bike on test afair.

I have a Carrera subway hybrid for knocking around town and a think its a brilliant bike for the money. Can't speak for road bikes of course.

route66

It looks like these then are the Skodas of the bike world; good quality, better value than the competition, great for everyday use ... and seriously unsexy?

Mind you, I'm still surprised at the poor quality rippled finish of the fork on the Virtuoso

And pleasantly surprised at the finish on the Vanquish. Is €660 - say sub €750 - the price point when the welds are smoothed down; would a Trek 1.2 have exposed welds (like my FX 7.3)?

route66

If you look at the picture of the Vanquish on the Halfords web site (Link), click on view larger and then zoom all the way in, you will see the welds are exposed and not smooth.

The one I saw in Carrickmines must be a newer version?

route66

Just spotted this - Halfords are offering 15% off these bikes - if ordered online - up to Monday. This makes the Virtuoso €374 and the Vanquish €561.

Still aren't allowed to buy anything though

maddog7

Alreet all.
Just to hoy my 2 penneth in.
I have just picked up a virtuoso as a winter bike. I had way less reservations about it than most since I had a Carrera Kraken years ago when I first started MTB'ing and it was truly outstanding, not just for the £300 I paid for it, but on it's own merits. I later sold it to a friend and compared it to my XCproII and there was still very little in it.
The virtuoso is spookily similar in dimensions to the Kinesis Grand Fondo I ride which sports a healthy dose of Sram Force, carbon laminate Shimano wheels. light finishing kits etc, weight 8kg
The ride is surprisingly good, it's extra weight is very obvious and the slacker angle makes it more relaxing to ride. It feels like it will last very well.
The wheels had ZERO run-out, I was amazed. The gears were perfect out the box although i did check that the mech hanger was aligned properly just in case.
I honestly don't think you'll get better for the money. My only gripe is with the Campy style shifters which I don't like since I can't change from all positions on the bar and the brake pads which are borderline dangerous but easily changed.
Unless I missed summat tho, I don't know why you'd go for the vanquish? on paper it weighs more and the only significant benefits are the 2 extra ratios and the better shifters?
I also understand that the Carrera brand is now manufactured by Merida. The welds are as good as the ones on the Kinesis which are hand made.
Overall a blinder for the money.

route66

maddog7 wrote: »

Alreet all.
Just to hoy my 2 penneth in.
I have just picked up a virtuoso as a winter bike. I had way less reservations about it than most since I had a Carrera Kraken years ago when I first started MTB'ing and it was truly outstanding, not just for the £300 I paid for it, but on it's own merits. I later sold it to a friend and compared it to my XCproII and there was still very little in it.
The virtuoso is spookily similar in dimensions to the Kinesis Grand Fondo I ride which sports a healthy dose of Sram Force, carbon laminate Shimano wheels. light finishing kits etc, weight 8kg
The ride is surprisingly good, it's extra weight is very obvious and the slacker angle makes it more relaxing to ride. It feels like it will last very well.
The wheels had ZERO run-out, I was amazed. The gears were perfect out the box although i did check that the mech hanger was aligned properly just in case.
I honestly don't think you'll get better for the money. My only gripe is with the Campy style shifters which I don't like since I can't change from all positions on the bar and the brake pads which are borderline dangerous but easily changed.
Unless I missed summat tho, I don't know why you'd go for the vanquish? on paper it weighs more and the only significant benefits are the 2 extra ratios and the better shifters?
I also understand that the Carrera brand is now manufactured by Merida. The welds are as good as the ones on the Kinesis which are hand made.
Overall a blinder for the money.

The Vanquish also has carbon forks and the shifters are better. More subjectively, I think it also looks nicer; not just because of the smooth welds, I prefer the red and black colour scheme too.
BTW, are the forks on your bike rippled when viewed from the side in the light?

kippy

Sorry to hijack the thread, in the market at the moment and looking at Halfords as they seem to have the best low prices.

Why are bikes so expensive in general? Is the bike to work scheme to blame?
I mean the basics havent changed in decades bar the materials and they really only seem to make a difference for the ultralights and those only really make a major difference in the hands of the top athletes.

Someone mentioned "stretching" the budget to €750
Isnt that a bit ridiculous for a bike? (I realise they go a lot higher)

Raam

kippy wrote: »

Why are bikes so expensive in general? Is the bike to work scheme to blame?
I mean the basics havent changed in decades bar the materials and they really only seem to make a difference for the ultralights and those only really make a major difference in the hands of the top athletes.

Someone mentioned "stretching" the budget to €750
Isnt that a bit ridiculous for a bike? (I realise they go a lot higher)

What are you hoping to spend?

kippy

Raam wrote: »

What are you hoping to spend?

400 (thats including the cycle to work scheme, so 400 max spend)
Most the shops I have gone into locally are looking at 400 minimum for a hybrid, not a sign of many cheaper options.
I darent look at racing bikes.

ednwireland

kippy wrote: »

Someone mentioned "stretching" the budget to €750
Isnt that a bit ridiculous for a bike? (I realise they go a lot higher)

considering at this point in time i do more miles on my bike than in my car (car doesnt get used much but possible new cycling club miles away may change that)
no

and a set of brifters (integrated brake levers and shifters) on a racer can cost 100+ euro on their own, i have a 20 year old bike that has had more parts changed than i care to remember mainly cos i buy cheap and they wear out.

if your just going to the shops get a carrerra subway with a rack and mudguards and you wont go wrong

if your planning on racing or doing 000's of km a year up your budget


anyay if you want to spend a 100 euro on a bicycle shaped object (google it) go ahead just dont come backk here complaining its heavy/you dont enjoy cycling/bits are falling off

nothing wrong with halfords as long as you dont buy the appollo range

kippy

But is the weight REALLY that big of a factor for any but the professionals?
The weights appear to be a major selling point in all of these bikes.

I still dont see how the prices of these objects (and some relatively standard ones) are so high.

papac

kippy wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread, in the market at the moment and looking at Halfords as they seem to have the best low prices.

Why are bikes so expensive in general? Is the bike to work scheme to blame?
I mean the basics havent changed in decades bar the materials and they really only seem to make a difference for the ultralights and those only really make a major difference in the hands of the top athletes.

Someone mentioned "stretching" the budget to €750
Isnt that a bit ridiculous for a bike? (I realise they go a lot higher)

This is, in my opinion, a common misconception.
In real terms-quality bikes are no more expensive than they ever were.
A Raleigh Roadster with three speed gear and a hub dynamo probably cost several weeks wages in the 1950s and was a major investment.
Supermarket bikes lead the non-cyclist to believe that a bike should cost a hundred euros.This is a fallacy.A good quality bike costs a weeks wages- same as it always did.

Raam

kippy wrote: »

But is the weight REALLY that big of a factor for any but the professionals?
The weights appear to be a major selling point in all of these bikes.

I still dont see how the prices of these objects (and some relatively standard ones) are so high.

Ride a heavy bike, then ride a lighter, better bike and make up your own mind as to which you would rather own.

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

Ride a heavy bike, then ride a lighter, better bike and make up your own mind as to which you would rather own.

It's difficult to separate the variables since whilst lighter is a bit better, better is a lot better, and lighter-but-not-better is difficult to find unless you buy a Planet-X.

Also, "better" is one of those words that seems ridiculous if you type it a few times.

Or something.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

It's difficult to separate the variables since whilst lighter is a bit better, better is a lot better, and lighter-but-not-better is difficult to find unless you buy a Planet-X.

Also, "better" is one of those words that seems ridiculous if you type it a few times.

Or something.

You had me right up until you said Planet-X.

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

...lighter-but-not-better is difficult to find unless you buy a Planet-X.

huh? please to explain please!

kippy

Raam wrote: »

Ride a heavy bike, then ride a lighter, better bike and make up your own mind as to which you would rather own.

I've riden both a bike costing Circa 3K (a relatives) ultra light etc and a €150 euro second hand mountain bike. I cant see why it is worth 3k to be honest.
I suppose it depends on what you aim is, but even for people who compete using bikes, you'd really have to be ultra fit for a couple of grams of weight to be making a difference.

Thanks by the way for the comments thus far, my main aim is actually to improve my fitness levels, not race other people - as such the heavier the bike the better possibly!

Raam

kippy wrote: »

I've riden both a bike costing Circa 3K (a relatives) ultra light etc and a €150 euro second hand mountain bike.
I suppose it depends on what you aim is, but even for people who compete using bikes, you'd really have to be ultra fit for a couple of grams of weight to be making a difference.

Desire is a strong feeling.

ednwireland

kippy wrote: »

I've riden both a bike costing Circa 3K (a relatives) ultra light etc and a €150 euro second hand mountain bike. I cant see why it is worth 3k to be honest.
I suppose it depends on what you aim is, but even for people who compete using bikes, you'd really have to be ultra fit for a couple of grams of weight to be making a difference.

Thanks by the way for the comments thus far, my main aim is actually to improve my fitness levels, not race other people - as such the heavier the bike the better possibly!

do a 100 miles on each then you'll know

kippy

ednwireland wrote: »

do a 100 miles on each then you'll know

Obviously it probably is easier to cycle a lighter bike......but is it circa 2800 euros worth it?

Think of what you are paying for? All you pay for is the light frame.
Its not like theres mad electronics in it........

route66

Lumen wrote: »

It's difficult to separate the variables since whilst lighter is a bit better, better is a lot better, and lighter-but-not-better is difficult to find unless you buy a Planet-X.

Also, "better" is one of those words that seems ridiculous if you type it a few times.

Or something.

Ok, I think we're going way off-topic here. But since I started the thread and I don't mind ...

I carry a 1.6 kilo lock* on my Trek FX 7.3 everywhere I go. Do I need it? Well, considering it's primarily an A to A mode of transport - or I have secure parking at both ends of my journey - no.

So why don't I ditch it and remove 1.6 kilos from my 15 kilo all-up weight? Why don't I get rid of all the other crap kit on my bike to bring its weight back down to the original figure of about 12?


Because light weight for me is not the point. For me, keeping fit and enjoying enjoying myself are bigger priorities and hauling the extra weight:

• Doesn't reduce my enjoyment
• Probably helps to keep me fitter
• Means my bike is always in "ready for anything" mode and I don't need to think about what to load/unload before I go for a spin.

The extra weight does slow me down, and it has taken me some time to accept that people on road bikes will wizz by and that I shouldn't feel the need to take them out when they do so (perhaps with my lock, for instance ); I'm getting there.

On the other hand, maybe I've realised my mistake and the above is just a feeble justification to make me feel better; I should have got the Skoda Halfords Carrera Vanquish instead.

Whatever

*And since this thread is now, wildly, off-topic (and I still don't mind, hey, it's Friday), my lock is an Abus Bordo Granit X-Plus, brilliant yoke. Much more compact than a D-lock whilst retaining most of their benefits, and it's secure. Very expensive(:eek:), but when purchased on the BTW scheme, the price is just about acceptable.

ednwireland

kippy wrote: »

Obviously it probably is easier to cycle a lighter bike......but is it circa 2800 euros worth it?

Think of what you are paying for? All you pay for is the light frame.
Its not like theres mad electronics in it........

i'd still rather throw my 1200 euro carbon bike down a hill at 70km/h (last sunday 74km/h) than a 200 quid BSO from halfords

and
read my post i said try it and then we'll talk (and i have done a 100 miles on a cheap bike albeit many years ago)

and you know what if i had 5k going spare i'd buy a merckx emx-5 in a heartbeat

i really think your arguement isnt going anywhere

a 500 quid bike gets you stock design (prob from a pattern book) made in a no-name factory in china cheap wheels brakes gears saddle etc. a 1k bike gets you better parts, prob a frame from a pattern book but it may have some design work from the manufacturer

if i'd spent 3-5 k i would really want a personal fitting service and a bike thats illegal in uci sanctioned races

anyway my nextweight loss is from myself first and the a set of wheels for half the price of the bike

kippy

route66 wrote: »

Ok, I think we're going way off-topic here. But since I started the thread and I don't mind ...

I carry a 1.6 kilo lock* on my Trek FX 7.3 everywhere I go. Do I need it? Well, considering it's primarily an A to A mode of transport - or I have secure parking at both ends of my journey - no.

So why don't I ditch it and remove 1.6 kilos from my 15 kilo all-up weight? Why don't I get rid of all the other crap kit on my bike to bring its weight back down to the original figure of about 12?


Because light weight for me is not the point. For me, keeping fit and enjoying enjoying myself are bigger priorities and hauling the extra weight:

• Doesn't reduce my enjoyment
• Probably helps to keep me fitter
• Means my bike is always in "ready for anything" mode and I don't need to think about what to load/unload before I go for a spin.

The extra weight does slow me down, and it has taken me some time to accept that people on road bikes will wizz by and that I shouldn't feel the need to take them out when they do so (perhaps with my lock, for instance ); I'm getting there.

On the other hand, maybe I've realised my mistake and the above is just a feeble justification to make me feel better; I should have got the Skoda Halfords Carrera Vanquish instead.

Whatever

*And since this thread is now, wildly, off-topic (and I still don't mind, hey, it's Friday), my lock is an Abus Bordo Granit X-Plus, brilliant yoke. Much more compact than a D-lock whilst retaining most of their benefits, and it's secure. Very expensive(:eek:), but when purchased on the BTW scheme, the price is just about acceptable.

Thats route, thats pretty much my frame of mind and my purchase will be based around it.
Apologies for bringing off topic.

route66

No problem! And best of luck with the bike.

Give me a wave if you overtake me!