New website: hittheroad.ie

smackyB

Hey folks, just thought you might be interested in a site I'm involved in http://hittheroad.ie. It's a public transport route planner for Dublin that uses data from Irish Rail, Dublin Bus and Luas in order to find an optimal route. At the moment it only displays a route and not any timetables but we're working on integrating this. Any feedback welcome

KC61

You need to reduce the priority of very low frequency or Xpresso routes - it gave me two Xpresso routes for a journey without looking at any of the other options.

It would be impossible, and I would suggest folly, to include times at the moment as Dublin Bus do not have working intermediate timetables, using only the terminus timings. I would certainly counsel against using the timings on the side of the timetables as these can be wildly inaccurate.

smackyB

KC61 wrote: »

You need to reduce the priority of very low frequency or Xpresso routes - it gave me two Xpresso routes for a journey without looking at any of the other options.

It would be impossible to include times at the moment as Dublin Bus do not have working intermediate timetables, using only the terminus timings.

Once we have times, we can prioritise routes which are served less frequently and other weighing strategies. Your right in that that its impossible to give exact times on intermediate stops but we hope to be able to give a rough estimate based on a variety of factors. This website is still in early beta so don't be too rough on it!

KC61

smackyB wrote: »

Once we have times, we can prioritise routes which are served less frequently and other weighing strategies. Your right in that that its impossible to give exact times on intermediate stops but we hope to be able to give a rough estimate based on a variety of factors. This website is still in early beta so don't be too rough on it!

Just making an observation! I appreciate that this is not an easy task. As I understand it Dublin Bus are working on a full scale multi-mode journey planner themselves.

But as a long term user/observer of public transport, I would suggest that bringing times into the equation before the bus company roll out the GPS technology and proper working timetables would give inaccurate information.

Also, where there are several options it is only giving one route, e.g. from Drumcondra to O'Connell Street it suggests the 13a, but ignores the 3, 11, 11a, 11b, 16, 16a, 33, 41, 41b, 41c and 746. You need to allow several options.

smackyB

KC61 wrote: »

Just making an observation! I appreciate that this is not an easy task. As I understand it Dublin Bus are working on a full scale multi-mode journey planner themselves.

But as a long term user/observer of public transport, I would suggest that bringing times into the equation before the bus company roll out the GPS technology and proper working timetables would give inaccurate information.

Also, where there are several options it is only giving one route, e.g. from Drumcondra to O'Connell Street it suggests the 13a, but ignores the 3, 11, 11a, 11b, 16, 16a, 33, 41, 41b, 41c and 746. You need to allow several options.

Yep we aim to offer alternative routes as well.. I didn't know DB were working on something similar, do you have a link to more info? As regards timing, I think having estimates in the interim before real-time info arrives is no harm as this is what DB do themselves on the timetables. Of course there'd be a big disclaimer saying these times are estimates etc.. Thanks for your feedback

KC61

smackyB wrote: »

Yep we aim to offer alternative routes as well.. I didn't know DB were working on something similar, do you have a link to more info? As regards timing, I think having estimates in the interim before real-time info arrives is no harm as this is what DB do themselves on the timetables. Of course there'd be a big disclaimer saying these times are estimates etc.. Thanks for your feedback

No links - just some conversations with NTA and DB personnel. It's fairly comprehensive I understand, but is still being worked on. Maybe give the DB marketing department a call or the NTA.

As for the times, I would again caution strongly against using the intermediate times shown on DB timetables as they are in some cases just plain wrong, and can wildly differ between peak and off-peak.

For example, route 14 is shown as taking 20 minutes to get from Dundrum to Ballinteer - it actually takes 5 minutes. Route 16 is shown as taking 60 minutes from Ballinteer to O'Connell Street. It can do the trip in 35 minutes off-peak.

Route 25 is shown as taking 40 minutes from town to Palmerstown. Off-peak it takes 20 minutes, and peak maybe 35.

Route 140 is shown as taking 50 minutes from O'Connell Street to IKEA - it does the trip in 35 minutes.

Until DB actually do full-scale route timetables that sort of information could be wildly inaccurate and actually provide customers with serious mis-information.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

WBrazel

Without being too rough on it I tried three searches and got incorrect information:

1) Dublin Airport to Rivermeade Estate: This is a difficult one. By bus it would be a 41/746/16A from Dublin Airport to Collinstown Cross, then a 27B from Collinstown Cross to Harristown, then an 83 from Harristown to St. Margaret's Road and finally a 40 to Toburburr. It told me to take a 41 to Swords Manor then to walk back out of the estate the way the 41 had gone to Rathbeale Road and then taking a left before Rolestown to Toburburr (a walk of 120mins). If you did have to go to Swords Manor there is a much quicker walk through Kileek.

2) Main Street Blanchardstown to Rivermeade Estate: Wanted to see if Rivermeade is actually noted as transport. It told me to take 220 from Blanch, a good start. But it wanted me to go all the way to Poppintree. Then walk all the way the Rivermeade. Even if the selected 40 journeys are not noted a connection with the 83 would bring you a lot closer. Answer would be Route 220 from Blanch Main Street, change either at Finglas Village or at Cardiffsbridge Road Church (short walk to connect with 40) and then 40 to Rivermeade.

3) Square Tallaght to Esker Road Lucan: It told me to take a 210, a good start. But then it told me to get off half way through the Bawnogue Estate and then to walk back the way I came, then using the new orbital road into Lucan then walk to Esker Road. My way would be 210 to Cherrywood Villas, then connect with a 151 to Esker Road. Failing that one could also take a 210 to Liffey Valley and make a connection with a 239.

I know its only in beta stage but I'm sure you'd like to be aware of these things.

wench

Nice site.
A couple of points, the Luas info seems to be based on the old red line route. It keeps insisting the 748 is the only way to get to the Point.

Also, it would be nice to be able to specify a preference for say Dart over Bus, where the routes are similar. It seems that if the address is more than about 200m from a dart station, it picks the bus route, even if that is further away.

Hungerford

There seems to be a few bugs alright:

It doesn't seem to be like you typing the name of specific railway stations into the search. It either starts the journey from the street outside the station or gets horribly confused.

For instance, it refuses to give the correct route between Drumcondra and Castleknock but instead asks you to walk 1km to Phibsboro and take the 38 bus.

It especially doesn't like Ashtown railway station and always redirects you to Ashtown, Co Wicklow.

The answer for Donabate to Malahide is also quite amusing: instead of just catching the train, it advises you to walk for 600m, get the 33B bus, get off at hearse road and walk 9km to Malahide.

Hungerford

I forgot to add that it's a seriously good first attempt and that it seems quite capable of providing a sensible option on basic routes. I shall definitely be consulting it in the future. It's just a case of ironing out the bugs.

dobsdave

Just tried Celbridge to Airport, told me to get off at aston quay and walk for 20mins to catch 41! 20min walk! do you know how heavy my suitcase is?:D

snappieT

There seems to be an issue with it selecting the nearest bus stop "as the crow flies" rather than by road distance. For example, the 123 stop on Griffith Avenue is much closer than the proposed 16 stop, and I'm pretty sure that if I were to get a 16, walking to the Swords Road/Griffith Avenue junction would be the way to go about it.

http://hittheroad.ie/#from=53.376982,-6.232551&to=53.246015,-6.128702

JHMEG

Just tried Leixlip to Tallaght... suggested I walk from Lucan to Tallaght!

Always picks the 66D from Leixlip (a once-a-day bus) and never the train.

Hungerford

It also can't find Collins Avenue - apparently there is no Collins Avenue in the Dublin area.:D

Another whacky one. From the R103 [the only name for Collins Avenue it recognises] to Pinewood Drive, a housing estate about 1km away:

Get the 104 bus to Ballymun. Then walk 2km, mostly retracing the route of the bus.

http://hittheroad.ie/#from=53.385188,-6.251849&to=53.393246,-6.275075

--
It also doesn't recognise that UCD is the defacto, if unofficial, terminus for the 3 bus.

smackyB

Thanks for the feedback folks! Only DART stations are in the database at the mo so you won't get a train suggestion out that way but it's on the TODO list

markpb

Hungerford wrote: »

It also doesn't recognise that UCD is the defacto, if unofficial, terminus for the 3 bus.

I don't think any journey planner can make allowances for the crazy mixed-up crap DB do to some of their routes. Is it the 3 that has several different terminii and several different route variations?

Edit: I just tried it for my commute and it was pretty much perfect. It did suggest the 5 rather than the Luas but it got the 27x right

Hungerford

smackyB wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback folks! Only DART stations are in the database at the mo so you won't get a train suggestion out that way but it's on the TODO list

You also probably need to add some limitation on the level of walking when the programme selects routes. There are a few routes which seem to be throwing up walks of over 2km, which seems a bit excessive.

Hungerford

markpb wrote: »

I don't think any journey planner can make allowances for the crazy mixed-up crap DB do to some of their routes. Is it the 3 that has several different terminii and several different route variations?

The 3 officially terminates on the Stilorglin Road but practically every service is actually a 3u, which terminates in UCD. Of course, DB only call it a 3u on their timetables, not their buses.

Cookie_Monster

Hungerford wrote: »

The 3 officially terminates on the Stilorglin Road but practically every service is actually a 3u, which terminates in UCD. Of course, DB only call it a 3u on their timetables, not their buses.

don't forget the odd one from Bray

KC61

Hungerford wrote: »

The 3 officially terminates on the Stilorglin Road but practically every service is actually a 3u, which terminates in UCD. Of course, DB only call it a 3u on their timetables, not their buses.

The "u" is only a footnote.

Route 3 can operate either to St John's Church in Sandymount or UCD Belfield.

KC61

markpb wrote: »

I don't think any journey planner can make allowances for the crazy mixed-up crap DB do to some of their routes. Is it the 3 that has several different terminii and several different route variations?

You could go on and on about this. We all know that there are problems like this, and we also know that it is going to be eliminated over the next 18 months with a bit of luck.

Johnny86

this was the etender by the NTA for a national journey planning service

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JUN153263

KC61

Here also is a reference to Dublin Bus doing this also:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Planned-Improvements/

Website Enhancements
Improvements at www.dublinbus.ie are also making things easier for the customer. A new facility displays routes on Google Maps, allowing customers to easily find their stop. A Route Planner will also be available allowing users to map the best options for travelling on the Dublin Bus network.

andrew163

Very very impressive. It doesn't pick the most efficient routes by any means but it's a great start. Good for people new to Dublin or starting a new job somewhere.

As someone said, it would be nice if it tied into actual timetables for buses and trains too depending on time of day, but I know how much work that would be (I considered doing something similar myself a while back, gave up on the idea after a short while thinking about how big a task it was).

The automatically starting at my current location with location services was a nice touch too

Sulmac

KC61 wrote: »

A Route Planner will also be available allowing users to map the best options for travelling on the Dublin Bus network.

No mention of Bus Éireann, Luas, DART, Commuter or private services...

KC61

Sulmac wrote: »

No mention of Bus Éireann, Luas, DART, Commuter or private services...

My understanding (from informal discussions at the recent talk on transport maps) is that the DB journey planner will include Luas and Iarnrod Eireann.

In fairness you would hardly expect Dublin Bus to include private operators that compete with them?

Bus Eireann already have a journey planner on their website.

The NTA is tasked with developing a national planner that will draw from this base.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

In fairness you would hardly expect Dublin Bus to include private operators that compete with them?

As DB requires subvention from the exchequer, you could say the tax-payer is paying for their route planner. The tax-payer has also paid for Bus Eireann's, and is paying for its maintenance.

In fact DB's budget for this should be cut, BE's system should be shut down, and the NTA's system should be the only one funded by the tax-payer, and include all modes and providers.

LilOc

Is it working for Northern Ireland too?...

markpb

JHMEG wrote: »

In fact DB's budget for this should be cut, BE's system should be shut down, and the NTA's system should be the only one funded by the tax-payer, and include all modes and providers.

+1

Or better still, just make them export their timetable data to Google Maps and use their existing, tested, free system like some other cities do.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

As DB requires subvention from the exchequer, you could say the tax-payer is paying for their route planner. The tax-payer has also paid for Bus Eireann's, and is paying for its maintenance.

In fact DB's budget for this should be cut, BE's system should be shut down, and the NTA's system should be the only one funded by the tax-payer, and include all modes and providers.

So what you're saying is that if a lot of work has already been done then it should be dumped and we have to wait again until the NTA gets its act together sometime next year?

Is it not better to at least get the thing up and running?

You are again missing the point - the NTA is (as I understand it) going to draw upon the DB planner in developing a national planner. This is not a DB go it alone project - the NTA have been involved in it.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

So what you're saying is that if a lot of work has already been done then it should be dumped and we have to wait again until the NTA gets its act together sometime next year?

Is it not better to at least get the thing up and running?

You are again missing the point - the NTA is (as I understand it) going to draw upon the DB planner in developing a national planner. This is not a DB go it alone project - the NTA have been involved in it.

No I'm not missing the point. Duplication of work by state companies, funded by the taxpayer, which will not include data from the private operators is not to be commended.

Once again your unwavering support for state companies is blinkering you from the reality.

zagmund

One oddness I came across - when I launched it couldn't work out my location (which is fair enough) but it had a suggested route from Howth to Loughlinstown on it. Is this the route of the last person to use the site, or the last person from my company (same IP address) to use the site ?

z

smackyB

LilOc wrote: »

Is it working for Northern Ireland too?...

Was that directed at our website or the NTA plans? We're just focusing on Dublin at the moment, sorry! Also guys if you could keep this thread on topic rather than getting into arguments (I've seen that things can get pretty heated on this board!), it would be much appreciated

smackyB

zagmund wrote: »

One oddness I came across - when I launched it couldn't work out my location (which is fair enough) but it had a suggested route from Howth to Loughlinstown on it. Is this the route of the last person to use the site, or the last person from my company (same IP address) to use the site ?

z

Howth to Loughlinstown is the default search if there was no prior search cookies and geolocation could not resolve your location.

Previous searches from other users are not visible on the site

Thanks for checking out the site!

Sulmac

LilOc wrote: »

Is it working for Northern Ireland too?...

Translink (made up of NI Railways, Ulsterbus and Metro Belfast) already have a journey planner on their website.

What the NTA should be aiming for is a site like this one. The planner should have its own identity, branding, website, apps for smartphones, SMS compatibility, etc.

Polar101

Looks pretty good, the search got my 2-bus commute right, so I wouldn't mind checking out the site when I need a journey planner.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

No I'm not missing the point. Duplication of work by state companies, funded by the taxpayer, which will not include data from the private operators is not to be commended.

Once again your unwavering support for state companies is blinkering you from the reality.

I have no wish to get into an argument with anyone.

This has nothing to do with having unwavering support for state companies (which again I would counter I do not have) - I am just being practical. The level of information available has (and everyone agrees about this) been truly woeful.

The work on this in all likelihood started some time before the NTA came into being. I would view it as a positive development that a journey planner is finally being brought into the public domain as many here have complained that the DB site has none. Now they're complaining because one is coming to fruition!!!

If the NTA can then develop a national one using work that has already been done, rather than starting from scratch then I would view that as a positive.

What would you prefer - go another 18 months without one or use the work done and have one that covers virtually all the Dublin services, given private operators account for a fairly small percentage of services in Dublin.

It is still not ideal, but it is a starting point from which a proper national planner can be developed.

smackyB I would suggest that you get in touch with both DB and NTA on what they are doing - it could be worth your while.

DannyD

IT looks very nice. The interface is clean and the jquery/ajax works well. What technology is behind it (php/asp.net) and if it's commercial how will you make money ?

smackyB

Hey folks, just to let you know that a new version of the site has just gone live. New features include giving you 4 other alternative routes to choose from, timetable integration and various other nice little improvements. As always, your thoughts and feedback are most welcome

480905

Just been on it.Seems very well thought out. Good stuff

smackyB

New version just went live folks. Highlights include new Luas green line data and the option to use Open Street Map tiles (click "detail" at the top of the map) plus lots of other tweaks under the hood Enjoy!