Hurling prize named after unionist

nordydan

Interesting!


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/uk-ireland/hurling-prize-named-after-unionist-14880667.html

Hurling prize named after unionist

Monday, 19 July 2010


The statue of Edward Carson on the Stormont estate

A new Gaelic games challenge has taken its name from a rather unlikely source - the founding father of Ulster unionism.Competitors in the first ever hurling event in the Stormont estate in Belfast - a place steeped in the historical trappings of British rule in Northern Ireland - will be playing for the Edward Carson trophy.
On face value, the Dublin-born barrister who led the campaign against Irish independence a century ago is an unusual choice for anyone looking to christen a prize for the quintessentially nationalist sport.
But Sinn Fein MP Gerry Adams, who has helped organise the inaugural "Poc ar an Cnoc" (puck on the hill), which will take place below Carson's famous statute in Stormont next month, thought otherwise.
"I discovered, much to my surprise, that Carson was a hurler in his days at Trinity College (Dublin)," he explained at the launch of the event in Parliament Buildings.
"So this man who is arguably the father of unionism was also a Gael and I thought that was an interesting concept."
He added: "When Carson was playing for this hurling club at Trinity he got an honourable mention in the Irish Sportsman (journal of the day) as having distinguished himself on the field so we thought it would be a great idea to have an Edward Carson trophy.
"This notion of Gaelic sports being in any way for one section of people here, I think once you just lift the lid of it (that's not the case) and hopefully one of the good things that may come out of all of this is that it will be received positively and favourably and people will embrace it."
The Poc Fada (long puck) will see hurlers young and old hitting sliotars (hurling balls) up the mile-long Prince of Wales Avenue that leads to Parliament Buildings.

donaghs

Worth bearing in mind that Carson was in Trinity in the 1870s, and the GAA was founded in 1884, when hurling was then given standard nationwide rules and regulations.
Of course hurling is a very ancient sport in Ireland, but hurling and field hockey weren't considered separate sports until the codification of sports in the late 19th century. Both Trinity's hurling and hockey clubs trace their lineage from the pre-GAA Trinity hurling teams.

Gingy

Edward Carson played 'hurley' not hurling. Hurley was a game played by Dublin Protestant aristocrats in the 1870's, which was like hockey not hurling, it was played on the ground and lacked the physicality of hurling. Cusack set up the Dublin Hurling Club and asked some hurley players to join in, they played for a Summer and eventually the political and religious differences between the Catholics and Protestants forced the hurley players back to their game, and eventually in the 1890's, when hurling was growing, the Trinity crew were playing hockey.

So basically, Carson didn't play any form of hurling as we know it and naming a GAA competition after the founder of the UVF isn't the most appropriate, but on the positive side it might encourage some Unionists to participate in a GAA event.

donaghs

Hurling pre-GAA was basically a stick and ball game that was played in Ireland. Different parts of the country, and different games organisers (e.g. landlords) had different rules and regulations.

keane2097

Anything that encourages inclusivity across sectarian lines in Northern Ireland is to be commended and encouraged IMO.

g5fd6ow0hseima

keane2097 wrote: »

Anything that encourages inclusivity across sectarian lines in Northern Ireland is to be commended and encouraged IMO.

It's well intentioned but ultimately pointless. Who thinks that a move like this will encourage unionists to pick up the game? You'd have better luck starting up a cricket club in Ballinamore

keane2097

Ares Wet Crumb wrote: »

It's well intentioned but ultimately pointless. Who thinks that a move like this will encourage unionists to pick up the game? You'd have better luck starting up a cricket club in Ballinamore

I've heard it said that many of even the staunchest Unionist politicians have been known to keep a sneaky eye on how their county are doing in the AI. A move like this is a small step on a long road to bringing us out of the dark ages to where there's no shame or fear of expressing your interest in any sport - GAA, cricket, whatever - from either side of the divide.

mathepac

I think it's very timely. With all this Ulster-Scots / Scots-Irish language / identity stuff going on, why not get the hurley/hurling/shinty/hockey stuff going on the playing fields as well?

With Paddies togging out for England in the cricket why not a few Scots-Irish Unionists ar an foireann iománíochta in Croke Park? Their county allegiances are pretty strong by all accounts.

mikemac

Gingy wrote: »

Edward Carson played 'hurley' not hurling. Hurley was a game played by Dublin Protestant aristocrats in the 1870's, which was like hockey not hurling, it was played on the ground and lacked the physicality of hurling. .

I've seen games between Irish and Scottish teams and I believe it's called Shinty.
It's ground based and very fast. The Scottish always won! Now it's years and years since I saw since a game on RTE.
Would this be what was played in Trinity in the 1870's?

Plus with the Ulster Scots tradition I don't find it suprising that the game would carry over

grenache

feelingstressed wrote: »

I've seen games between Irish and Scottish teams and I believe it's called Shinty.
It's ground based and very fast. The Scottish always won! Now it's years and years since I saw since a game on RTE.
Would this be what was played in Trinity in the 1870's?

The game you saw is a compromised rules version of our hurling and the Scottish game of shinty. Hurley that was played by the upperclasses in 1870s ireland would be very similar to shinty. The Scots win most of the compromised rules international games as they pick their best players. There are no players selected from the top 13 traditional hurling counties on the Irish side, we pick mostly from the second tier counties such as Kerry, Westmeath, Down, etc. This is so guys from weaker counties get the opportunity to play in Croke Park and receive some recognition.

Gingy

grenache wrote: »

The game you saw is a compromised rules version of our hurling and the Scottish game of shinty. Hurley that was played by the upperclasses in 1870s ireland would be very similar to shinty. The Scots win most of the compromised rules international games as they pick their best players. There are no players selected from the top 13 traditional hurling counties on the Irish side, we pick mostly from the second tier counties such as Kerry, Westmeath, Down, etc. This is so guys from weaker counties get the opportunity to play in Croke Park and receive some recognition.

It's also because we used to hammer the haggis out them when we picked proper teams.

Pappy o' daniel

This is great, theres a potential doubling of the playing pool available to N. Ireland counties if loyalists get on the GAA bus. This sort of stuff should have been done years ago.

Grudaire

Pappy o' daniel wrote: »

This is great, theres a potential doubling of the playing pool available to N. Ireland counties if loyalists get on the GAA bus. This sort of stuff should have been done years ago.

Stronger Northern Football would only mean bad things for Kerry... don't get my hopes up like this!:D

donaghs

Ares Wet Crumb wrote: »

It's well intentioned but ultimately pointless. Who thinks that a move like this will encourage unionists to pick up the game? You'd have better luck starting up a cricket club in Ballinamore

Funnily enough, I understand that cricket was very popular in many parts of rural Ireland in the pre-GAA era. It's still maintained a foothold in some places like North County Dublin (e.g. with old clubs in Malahide, Balrothery, Skerries, Rush, Balbriggan, Man 'O War (merged with Balrothery)

mathepac

donaghs wrote: »

Funnily enough, I understand that cricket was very popular in many parts of rural Ireland in the pre-GAA era. ...

Cricket and rounders (the unrecognised GAA game and the precursor of baseball) were both popular games. I have written accounts of the childhood cricketing prowess of family members who were later became well-known in GAA history.

My late grand-father had a copy of an early GAA rulebook that had the layout for a rounders pitch and the rules of the game. In the margins are hand-written notes mentioning the suitability of cricket pitches for rounders.