'Stereo' Acoustic Guitars me whole ....

PaulBrewer

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5599793-post6.html

Myself and Mixerman might just get on .....

Neurojazz

PaulBrewer wrote: »

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5599793-post6.html

Myself and Mixerman might just get on .....

Lot of common sense there!

TelePaul

Hmmm. Not sure I agree. Why is 'faux' stereo 'faux stereo'? You could apply the same logic to a piano mic'd with two SDCs, no? The timbre of an acoustic guitar varies hugely between bridge and neck, is the argument here that the stereo spread is so small as makes no real difference? Am I completely missing the point? Also, phase schmase, if phase concerns were to prevent you from recording a source with multiple mics, all drum beats would sound like someone punching a cow.

madtheory

An XY pair is not "faux", although one on the 12th fret and one on the body is (common mistake). Lots of assumptions being made in that thread. There's no rule, only what's appropriate for the song. This guy gives genre specific advice, for example, he always mixes to analogue tape. Fine for some stuff, but not everything.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Hmmm. Not sure I agree. Why is 'faux' stereo 'faux stereo'? You could apply the same logic to a piano mic'd with two SDCs, no? The timbre of an acoustic guitar varies hugely between bridge and neck, is the argument here that the stereo spread is so small as makes no real difference? Am I completely missing the point? Also, phase schmase, if phase concerns were to prevent you from recording a source with multiple mics, all drum beats would sound like someone punching a cow.

'Faux' as in 'fake' or 'false' - so it's not 'real' stereo but a recreation of stereo using phase techniques similar to that Flux plugin I posted about recently.

A piano isn't the same as there's much more space between the mics.

The rule of thumb is the '3 to 1 Rule' to avoid problems in X/Y micing. That is if the distance between mics is at least 3 times that between mic and instrument.


The phase relationship between multi mics on drums is probably the most important thing in a kit's stereo 'feel' I.e. the sense of instruments coming from a specific direction.
It certainly is the most important thing in getting drums to 'punch'

DamagedTrax

^^ what madtheory said.

while i really wouldnt record an acoustic in stereo for a rock song i damn sure would for a singer songwriter.

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

'Faux' as in 'fake' or 'false' - so it's not 'real' stereo but a recreation of stereo using phase techniques similar to that Flux plugin I posted about recently.

A piano isn't the same as there's much more space between the mics.

I think, as mad theory said, that this might be assuming alot...

PaulBrewer wrote: »

The rule of thumb is the '3 to 1 Rule' to avoid problems in X/Y micing. That is if the distance between mics is at least 3 times that between mic and instrument.

But what about XY placement?

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

I think, as mad theory said, that this might be assuming alot...



But what about XY placement?

The definition of faux isn't in question and a Reading of the thread makes that clear to me.

I don't understand your XY placement question ?

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

The definition of faux isn't in question and a Reading of the thread makes that clear to me.

I'm still a bit dubious....supposing I mic an acoustic with one mic below the bridge and and another at the nut? That's quite a spread, no?

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I don't understand your XY placement question ?

Does that not break the 3:1 rule?

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

I'm still a bit dubious....supposing I mic an acoustic with one mic below the bridge and and another at the nut? That's quite a spread, no?



Does that not break the 3:1 rule?

Ah right ,
try it , if the mics are close it will probably sound ****e musically but be pretty good on phase.

If you move back you're then recording more ambience which is more undefined phase wise.

Mixerman's points align with my experience and in this instance are really a shortcut to avoiding a whole heap of heartache.

Don't diss it till you've tried it!

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Ah right ,
try it , if the mics are close it will probably sound ****e musically but be pretty good on phase.

If you move back you're then recording more ambience which is more undefined phase wise.

Mixerman's points align with my experience and in this instance are really a shortcut to avoiding a whole heap of heartache.

Don't diss it till you've tried it!

My acoustic recordings never sound good....they just sound like various degrees of bad!

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

My acoustic recordings never sound good....they just sound like various degrees of bad!

Rock On TP!

woodsdenis

TelePaul wrote: »

Hmmm. Not sure I agree. Why is 'faux' stereo 'faux stereo'? You could apply the same logic to a piano mic'd with two SDCs, no? The timbre of an acoustic guitar varies hugely between bridge and neck, is the argument here that the stereo spread is so small as makes no real difference? Am I completely missing the point? Also, phase schmase, if phase concerns were to prevent you from recording a source with multiple mics, all drum beats would sound like someone punching a cow.

Drums and Pianos dont move relative to your mics, guitar players will move enough to cause havoc. It only takes a couple of inches:eek:

madtheory

This helps with the moving:
http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product_details.cfm?ProdID=1711

Strange discussion. Use XY for close miking in stereo. Don't use MS or AB. Know the technical differences. End of.

ogy

whats wrong with MS? perfect summing to mono!

madtheory

To me it sounds too wide for acoustic guitar.

ogy

ah i get you, i thought you meant not to use it as a close miking technique in general

madtheory

Yes, I like MS very close to upright piano, but not on acoustic guitar.

I guess that just shows that there are no absolutes.