Why you should NOT buy a pre-built PC off eBay.

Sobanek

A lot of people buy computers on eBay, but unfortunately do not know about the danger of having these. These could actually cost you a life!
I'm going to start-off with my story, I was only 15 at that time, but I had a holiday job, earned some money and decided to upgrade my 2001 PC (Which was built by an IT friend of my parents).
Because I was a complete newbie in building computers, I just decided to go for something pre-built. First, I went over to Dell. The Inspiron computer there with a Core 2 Duo and an ATI HD3450 512MB was €499. That was a lot of money for me, as I also needed a monitor, a keyboard, a mouse and of course the speakers. I then went to eBay. Found a perfect PC from UK. AMD Dual Core, 2GB's of RAM, NVIDIA 8600GT 512MB for only €299! That was a hell of the deal for me even with the €49.99 postage! I obviously bought the PC. When it arrived, I was very excited to open it up and play some games. After around a month of owning this PC (keep in mind it only had a 30-day warranty), I left it on and decided to go to bed, but I still watched some TV before I went to sleep. I then heard a small explosion coming from my computer, then lots of smoke and even fire came out from the Power Supply. The computer got fried. The IT checked it out and said that not only the Processor didn't have the Thermal Compound on so it was overheating, but also the power supply, well it only gave the power. A no-brand power supply, that was really a rectangle piece of junk that supplied the power to the components. Thank God, I was awake, because if I was asleep at that time and didn't take the plug out, my house would've been on fire and most probably, I wouldn't be writing this stuff.
So now, some arguments - Why should you buy a decent power supply.
You want to ensure that your power supply :

• Delivers enough power to all your hardware parts and have some overhead, in case of intense utilisation. That is calculated with Watts(W) and Amperage (A). Most power supplies brands put heavy marketing and emphasis on Watts, but both units are just as important what choosing a power supply.
• Delivers stable voltage, so that your computer does not crash due to voltage spiking. This is ESSENTIAL when you overclock. You want clear, clean, stable current. After all, the last thing you want is your computer crashing in the middle of some important work right? That’s what I thought
• Protects your computer in case of thunderstorms, faulty electrical wiring, power surges, spikes and such. If for some reason, the voltage in your electrical line spikes or drop, a no-name power supply will simply pass it on to your computer. You’ve just set yourself for another computer crash or if you’re unlucky (like me), some nice fireworks inside your computer. A good power supply will take the hit and protect the rest of the computer by doing so. I regret I haven't lost €80 on the PSU instead of €349 on the whole computer, what about you? Especially if you have critical data on your hard drives!
• Is efficient: An efficient power supply will consume less electricity, produce less heat and in general, will also be more silent.
• Will provide better cooling for your case. Good power supplies are usually equipped with a large 120mm or two 80mm fans.

Sorry for such a long post but I just had to share my expierience with you people.

TouchingVirus

Change topic title to "Why you should buy a good PSU" to be honest, one bad experience on ebay doesn't mean you shouldn't buy pre-builds from them.

Deano12345

Good post, but one thing, PSU's wont improve the cooling in your case, the fans on PSU's will either draw air in through the bottom and its ducted throught the back (with a cheap looking plastic ducting,even on the more expensive PSU's) and if you invert it so that it takes air in from the case, it just pulls hot air off the GPU really.

Sobanek

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Change topic title to "Why you should buy a good PSU" to be honest, one bad experience on ebay doesn't mean you shouldn't buy pre-builds from them.

I'm definitely not the only person that had a problems with such a computer. Most companies provide you with cheap 9400gt, Athlon II X2 and DDR2 RAM - These computers for sure have a no-brand power supply.

cherryghost

12ghz Quad Core extreme processing! (lies)
Massive gaming performance - 9500GT (lies)
Super fast mega ultra cool 4gb RAM (liiiies)
Massive internal HD, super fast super cool (lies)
The best case around (lies)

All for only 800 euro! (lies)

Connavar

Sobanek wrote: »

I'm definitely not the only person that had a problems with such a computer. Most companies provide you with cheap 9400gt, Athlon II X2 and DDR2 RAM - These computers for sure have a no-brand power supply.

This is why reading every detail of what is in the build is necessary. If they don't tell you the brand of something, don't buy

Monotype

You can't really just group all of ebay sellers into this. Some are more scrupulous. Also, a lot of the big name manufacturers will cut costs in cooling and PSUs. The price difference between a crappy €10 PSU and a decent €70 can mean a sale or not.

The PSU is selected as a cutting point, because it's not something you'll see in most specs and even if it is listed, people often just look at the maximum wattage. It's also one of the most important parts, if you consider a bad one could destroy your system.

Thanks for your story OP, spread the word of the advantages necessities of a good PSU.

TouchingVirus

Sobanek wrote: »

I'm definitely not the only person that had a problems with such a computer. Most companies provide you with cheap 9400gt, Athlon II X2 and DDR2 RAM - These computers for sure have a no-brand power supply.

This isn't an ebay-only problem. You are not the only one who has bought a cheap computer with cheap parts. Your post highlights the necessity to have a quality PSU, not the necessity to avoid ebay pre-builds. You're tarring all ebay-sellers with the one brush.

Connavar

cherryghost wrote: »

12ghz Quad Core extreme processing! (lies)
Massive gaming performance - 9500GT (lies)
Super fast mega ultra cool 4gb RAM (liiiies)
Massive internal HD, super fast super cool (lies)
The best case around (lies)

All for only 800 euro! (lies)

I have seen dell/alienware do this plenty of times and I have no doubt that other companies do it too. Saying that you are buying top end gaming machines, then a bit of research into the parts tells you that some games won't even be playable

Buying a good PC is all about research. You shouldn't believe any of the buzz words companies throw at you

Solitaire

Monotype wrote: »

You can't really just group all of ebay sellers into this. Some are more scrupulous.

Long version: I would really like to see evidence of such, as it is a phenomenon I do not recall ever encountering before on eGay. I would be happy to amend the title of the thread if you could show me proof of such a phenomenon ever occurring.

Short version: Pics or GTFO! :pac:

Also, a lot of the big name manufacturers will cut costs in cooling and PSUs. The price difference between a crappy €10 PSU and a decent €70 can mean a sale or not.

The PSU is selected as a cutting point, because it's not something you'll see in most specs and even if it is listed, people often just look at the maximum wattage. It's also one of the most important parts, if you consider a bad one could destroy your system.

Not really. Most pre-built systems don't have a huge requirement for cooling in the first place. And the bit about PSUs is blatantly untrue. Small and some medium-sized system builders use cack PSUs but out of the big boys even Acer only drop down to average-quality units in their compact slimline mATX systems; and only Acer would ever use a medium- (not low!) quality ATX PSU - everyone else use good- to excellent-grade PSUs in their mini- and midi-towers. They know that given the number of units sold multiplied by the chance of having to replace every component in a blown rig if a cheap PSU goes off like an ammunition dump inside, cheapo PSUs are simply a false economy - instead they'll use their bulk-manufacturing capacity to order cut-down high-quality units at a knockdown price.

Curry Addict

OP, u really shouldnt make posts about things you know nothing about. u only end up confusing people tbh.

Monotype

Solitaire wrote: »

Long version: I would really like to see evidence of such, as it is a phenomenon I do not recall ever encountering before on eGay. I would be happy to amend the title of the thread if you could show me proof of such a phenomenon ever occurring.

Short version: Pics or GTFO! :pac:

I suppose I'll GTFO since I haven't time to be trawling through a couple of thousand listings to prove a point. Maybe they're less common than they were, but I've known a few people over the time who've tried selling on ebay and such who would be more selective of their parts. But maybe they couldn't compete with the prices of other rubbish for sale.

Not really. Most pre-built systems don't have a huge requirement for cooling in the first place.

I wasn't saying there was a huge requirement, I was saying they cut corners here. Most people building their own would probably do better.

And the bit about PSUs is blatantly untrue.

Again, I didn't say that people's dells were blowing up. I was going to mention that at least they don't cut that far back, but I was hardly expecting someone to run over my post with a magnifying glass. My point was that they save money here by using the close to the minimum. They're nowhere near as reliable as what you would probably even select yourself, and minor upgrades are often too much for these systems.

Solitaire

Monotype wrote: »

I suppose I'll GTFO since I haven't time to be trawling through a couple of thousand listings to prove a point. Maybe they're less common than they were, but I've known a few people over the time who've tried selling on ebay and such who would be more selective of their parts. But maybe they couldn't compete with the prices of other rubbish for sale.

That's what drives me mad about eGay: the signal-to-noise ratio for PC builds is truly absymal there and the crapmerchants are very much winning the war Even so, I'd be more than happy to change the tone of the thread if you could have given me some ray of hope

I wasn't saying there was a huge requirement, I was saying they cut corners here. Most people building their own would probably do better.

Fair enough.

Again, I didn't say that people's dells were blowing up. I was going to mention that at least they don't cut that far back, but I was hardly expecting someone to run over my post with a magnifying glass. My point was that they save money here by using the close to the minimum. They're nowhere near as reliable as what you would probably even select yourself, and minor upgrades are often too much for these systems.

The thing is their focus is on non-gaming systems, which greatly reduces PSU and cooling requirements anyway. And its not like the PSUs are that restrictive; most slimline systems can squeeze in a HD5570, and for many years people have been sticking 8800GTs (the old hungry 80nm ones!) in basic Dells because the Delta PSUs inside had more than enough spare capacity. The only place where the big OEMs get really cheap on PSUs is on cable lengths and connector quantity

BostonB

Over the years, very rarely have I seen issues with PSU's cheap or expensive. Even on overclocked systems.

mickoneill30

Solitaire wrote: »

That's what drives me mad about eGay

Is there a problem with the B key on your computer?
Shouldnt have bought your keyboard from eBay

I've a noname PC I bought from eBay in about 2004. It's still working away as my fileserver now. Was cheap at the time. It's like any eBay transaction. Check what you're buying and check the seller. If they've got 10 feedback then stay away. If they've got 1000's of positive feedback for the same product you're buying then they're probably OK.

gbee

I've bought several power supplies over the years.

At €650 each I've two Ice supplies that blew in my machines, a third one is still going ~ I've a lifetime warranty but just binned them ~ who wants a lifetime of explosions?

AMD are rubbish! Just Google over heating AMD and Intel and the AMD smokes instantly ~

THUS, I cannot agree with your IT person about no heat-shielding between the AMD and the cooler, your AMD would not have lasted ten minutes ~AND I am serious here.

More likely there was a power surge, I have both power surge protection and fuse blowing plugs and my power supply cost more than your entire PC and it still blew ~

Also it's as likely to have been an MB fault ~ now this is a real danger with on-line PCs, cheap mother boards which can arc and kill both the CPU, Ram & PSU .

In fairness to my PSU that blew, I saved my MB, CPU & Ram and it lives to this day.

Jonny7

I guess I should chip in..

Its mostly first time buyers or those with little knowledge that first get attracted to PC's on Ebay (14.4 ghz!!!! machine turning out to be the very first AMD quad with its front side bus multiplied by four, don't ask)

The PC's on Ebay will 90% be built with the cheapest possible motherboard and PSU, this doesn't necessarily mean they will blow up, it just increases the likelihood. At least a little research goes into a Dell, whereas the typical Ebay PC guy is just scoping the cheapest possible parts and throwing them together with a strong processor and/or graphics card.

Unfortunately the real Ebay deals, the 200 euro refurbished misnamed Quad cores are generally missed by Joe Blogs and get snapped us by the many hawks (me being one)

Moral of the story: If you know nothing, go with Dell over Ebay.

Deano12345

@gebee : The PSU's cost 650 quid each ?

Solitaire

Could you understand any of his post?? I couldn't!

gbee

Deano12345 wrote: »

@gebee : The PSU's cost 650 quid each ?

OK make that €350, I did buy a couple of them.

Deano12345

Do you have a link for them. 350 quid is ALOT for any PSU

gbee

Deano12345 wrote: »

Do you have a link for them. 350 quid is ALOT for any PSU

You want a link to exploding PSU? ~ I will tell you I bought them in PC World, Mahon Point Retail Park. I live nearby but can't remember, but it was in the first few months of their opening.

Last month, as my second PSU exploded from the set. I paid €175 for slightly less connections but the same 650Watts super cool, super silent type, but not the exact same as those that exploded.

The top of the range was still €275 for the same spec but with the extra connections ad cables.

So say four years ago, or more, can't think now and I'm sure I have invoices, somewhere, but I'm not looking for them now.

Solitaire

PC World... that explains it! :pac:

Deano12345

Solitaire wrote: »

PC World... that explains it! :pac:

I never use this smiley but what the hey :pac::pac::pac::pac:

VenomIreland

gbee wrote: »

AMD are rubbish! Just Google over heating AMD and Intel and the AMD smokes instantly ~

I daresay AMD has better price:performance in most areas.

Deano12345

VenomIreland wrote: »

Ditto for me.

I'll have a go at making out what he was trying to say

@ the AMD vs Intel : I believe he is talking about this old video where they ran an athlon and a P4 (I think) without a HS or TIM where the Athlon basically started smoking as soon they started it up.

@ Power surge : He is talking about a power spike which caused the PSU to blow, taking other components with it

@ Cheap motherboards : He is saying that the motherboards dont offer over voltage protection and that the surge would pass from the PSU to the MB and into the other components

VenomIreland

Deano12345 wrote: »

I'll have a go at making out what he was trying to say

@ the AMD vs Intel : I believe he is talking about this old video where they ran an athlon and a P4 (I think) without a HS or TIM where the Athlon basically started smoking as soon they started it up.

@ Power surge : He is talking about a power spike which caused the PSU to blow, taking other components with it

@ Cheap motherboards : He is saying that the motherboards dont offer over voltage protection and that the surge would pass from the PSU to the MB and into the other components

Ah, I get it now.

lmimmfn

on the OP, i mean WTF do you expect for 299Euro? A PS3 couse about 300euro last i checked and youre expecting to get a quality and more powerful PC for the same price, eh?

Computers are like everything in life, you get what you pay for. People neglect PSU's, cases, screens, mice, keyboards but they can last through several computers. Its best to fork out a fortune on that part so upgrading or complete rebuild( using the old PSU, case, screen etc. ) is cheap as chips.
Buying a complete build for 300euro and expecting it to have the best components is just crazy. Dell do the same thing, give a POS psu( although admitedly theyre excellent PSUs ) that only handles slightly above the config youve ordered.

Its nigh on impossible to put together a PC for 300euro using new parts and having a decent PSU. A Good PSU alone is about 70euro, POS ones are 15-20euro

I honestly cannot understand why people think PC's are different to anything else you buy. if someone was selling a 2008 Volkswagen Golf for 3000euro, there has to be something wrong with it.

I rebuild every 2 years, costs about 400euro from selling the old stuff and generally end up with a top notch rig, currently on i7 920@4Ghz, ATI 5850, Gigabyte UD5 etc. and this is now 14 months old.

Ive had the following for 5 years
Case
Mouse
DVD drive
Screen

I would have the same PSU, only the old one blew( and was a great PSU as it didnt destroy any of my components ) i was too lazy to RMA it before the 3 years were out.

If it was me and i wanted a 300euro PC, i would:
a) choose a second hand rig
b) ensure that the mobo,cpu, case and psu are at least semi decent.

If i did buy a new PC for 300euro i would replace the PSU before i even turned the thing on.

@gbee, havnt got a clue WTF youre on about, 650euro psu's is laughable for your average PC consumer, and WTF is with saying AMD overheat when they have the lowest power chips in the x86 market. Any decent PSU usually has short circuit protection, overpower (overload) protection, overvoltage protection, undervoltage protection, overcurrent protection, and over temperature protection.

Sobanek

Keep in mind that was around 3 years ago. Not 3 weeks ago. I was still a kid back then. And did not have a clue about computers.