Dogs off leads, again!!!

glineli

Why do people let their dogs off leads? I am sick to death of people doing this. My westie got attacked last christmas and again today.

The people that owned the other dog didnt say anything. I can report to the local SPCA but nothing will get done, the cops would laugh at me. Why do we have these laws and not enforce them. :mad:

andreac

Theres no law to say your dog has to be on a lead (unless its a restricted breed) but your dog is supposed to be under control which this one obv isnt.

Dogs should be allowed free running off leads, its not fair to keep them on a lead all the time, but if your dog is aggressive with other dogs then it should def be kept on a lead at all times.

Sorry to hear about your dog but theres not much you can do really.

seamus

glineli wrote: »

The people that owned the other dog didnt say anything.

If it was a serious incident, I'm surprised the the owners would say nothing. Was it a case that the dogs ended up fighting or that the other dog actually attacked and injured yours?

I can report to the local SPCA but nothing will get done, the cops would laugh at me.

The local SPCA are not a government body and have no authority to do anything. Assuming also that the dog off lead is not being ill-treated, they will also not do anything because they are a rescue organisation, not an enforcement one.

Make a complaint to your local warden about it. If it's a common thing in a particular spot, they'll keep an eye out for it.

**Vai**

Snip.

Acoshla

As mentioned dogs do not have to be on leads at all times, I really wish people would get their facts straight before ranting.

As long as dogs are under the effective control of their owner they are allowed to be off lead, so if your dog was attacked the issue is not that all dogs are allowed off lead it is that that dog in particular was not under the control of it's owner, not every single other dog.

My own dog is normally incredibly well behaved off lead, brilliant recall, but recently she went to sniff a terrier and he went for her, she growled and snapped back and the terrier's owner went ballistic, even though the terrier was the instigator because my dog was off lead and hers was on a lead she roared at me in the middle of the road that she would report me for not having my dog on a lead, blame the easy target like.

I understand you being angry if your dog was attacked but it is not the law, it would be very unfair to all the well behaved dogs out there, including your own, if it was.

TooManyDogs

Spadina wrote: »

even though the terrier was the instigator

In actual fact your dog was the instigator by approaching another dog uninvited.

I know that dogs have to be under effective control at all times, which is fair enough, but that doesn't mean you as their owner should allow them to approach any other dog while you're out walking. Your dog may be dog friendly but there are plenty of dogs that aren't dog friendly and it's very unfair for them to have loose dogs approach them. There are also plenty of dogs that are friendly but have absolutely no canine manners and barrel into another dogs face while the owner is calling 'it's ok, he just wants to say hello', the other dog snaps to get the rude dog out of their face and can spark a fight, both dogs can then be nervous of other dogs.

So please, if you don't put your dog on a lead, do not allow them to approach dogs they don't know without talking to the other owner first to make sure it's ok

adser53

Spadina wrote: »

My own dog is normally incredibly well behaved off lead, brilliant recall, but recently she went to sniff a terrier and he went for her, she growled and snapped back and the terrier's owner went ballistic, even though the terrier was the instigator because my dog was off lead and hers was on a lead she roared at me in the middle of the road that she would report me for not having my dog on a lead, blame the easy target like.

In fairness her dog was on a lead and when approached by a strange loose dog, many dogs feel threatened and react like hers did. While I firmly believe dogs should be allowed off leash, it is very frustrating when loose dogs come up to you while your lad is leashed. I own an 2 akitas and as they're restricted breed they're leashed at all times when there's other people & dogs around and we've often had loose dogs come bounding up and hopping all over them. If, god forbid, one of mine snapped, it's not fair to say mine are at fault as they're under control while the other dog wasn't.

Mr. Presentable

adser53 wrote: »

In fairness her dog was on a lead and when approached by a strange loose dog, many dogs feel threatened and react like hers did. While I firmly believe dogs should be allowed off leash, it is very frustrating when loose dogs come up to you while your lad is leashed. I own an 2 akitas and as they're restricted breed they're leashed at all times when there's other people & dogs around and we've often had loose dogs come bounding up and hopping all over them. If, god forbid, one of mine snapped, it's not fair to say mine are at fault as they're under control while the other dog wasn't.

It wouldn't be likely though, as you, being a responsible citizen, have them muzzled too. Right?

antomagoo

nipplenuts wrote: »

It wouldn't be likely though, as you, being a responsible citizen, have them muzzled too. Right?

Here we go again :rolleyes:

seamus

nipplenuts wrote: »

It wouldn't be likely though, as you, being a responsible citizen, have them muzzled too. Right?

Dogs have paws and claws too. They don't have to be unmuzzled for a fight to break out.

KylieWyley

Westies are small.

If you see a dog coming towards yours in a purposeful manner then just pick your dog up.

peasant

KylieWyley wrote: »

Westies are small.

If you see a dog coming towards yours in a purposeful manner then just pick your dog up.

Bad advice and a recipe for desaster.

- Picking the dog up makes it more "interesting" to the approching dog, it will only come closer and possibly jump up to investigate

- Picking your dog up means you have your hands full and can't use them to shoo the other dog away

- Not all dogs like being picked up, especially not when they are in "defence mode". Your dog might struggle and fight and you may even be bitten by your own dog


When you see a dog coming up and you don't want it to approach, put yourself between the two dogs and keep yours out of harms way. Keep as calm as possible, keep your dog quiet and tell the other one to "go home"

brianon

Don't want to hijack this thread but what do you guys do when you are bringing your dog for a walk and a dog (or dogs) aggressively approaches your dog ?

At the moment we just bring our dog. But should we have a stick of sorts with us ? What do you guys do ?

Whispered

Anthony Walsh wrote: »

Oh and anyone that thinks telling a dog to "go home" will work obviously are not training there own dog properly, its well known that dogs find one word commands alot easier than two or more worded commands.

Actually it would be the gestures made with your body and your tone of voice which would be more important, as peasant said, not whether you use a one or 2 word command.

Huge assumption btw to tell someone who you don't know that they don't train their dog properly. Peasant gives great training advice on this forum fwiw and more than simply teching "one word" commands.

DBCyc

brianon wrote: »

Don't want to hijack this thread but what do you guys do when you are bringing your dog for a walk and a dog (or dogs) aggressively approaches your dog ?

At the moment we just bring our dog. But should we have a stick of sorts with us ? What do you guys do ?

It's happened twice to me with Suzie on the lead and another dog has approached aggressively.

Just like peasant's advice above, I just put myself between the two dogs and shouted at the approaching dog. This seemed to distract the dogs long enough for their owner to come over and retrieve their dog.

It didn't particularly annoy me, but I can understand how someone would get freaked out. Especially if its a bigger dog approaching a small dog. Suzie didn't look intimidated either time anyway

Mr. Presentable

seamus wrote: »

Dogs have paws and claws too. They don't have to be unmuzzled for a fight to break out.

He did say "snapped"

antomagoo

nipplenuts wrote: »

He did say "snapped"

seamus is making the point that a dog doesnt need to be muzzled to attack another dog, he can use paws etc He's referencing your post about asking if adser53 has his dogs muzzled when out walking which has nothing to do with OP

adser53

nipplenuts wrote: »

It wouldn't be likely though, as you, being a responsible citizen, have them muzzled too. Right?

And the award for completely missing the point goes to....YOU! *applause*
My statement goes for any breed of dog walking off leash approaching a leashed dog. Stop nitpicking posts. I have 2 cavaliers too and if they were off leash and approached a leashed dog, say even another cav (which doesn't have to muzzled), that snapped, I wouldn't blame that dog or it's owner

Acoshla

TooManyDogs wrote: »

In actual fact your dog was the instigator by approaching another dog uninvited.

I know that dogs have to be under effective control at all times, which is fair enough, but that doesn't mean you as their owner should allow them to approach any other dog while you're out walking. Your dog may be dog friendly but there are plenty of dogs that aren't dog friendly and it's very unfair for them to have loose dogs approach them. There are also plenty of dogs that are friendly but have absolutely no canine manners and barrel into another dogs face while the owner is calling 'it's ok, he just wants to say hello', the other dog snaps to get the rude dog out of their face and can spark a fight, both dogs can then be nervous of other dogs.

So please, if you don't put your dog on a lead, do not allow them to approach dogs they don't know without talking to the other owner first to make sure it's ok

The other owner stopped so that the dogs could approach each other actually, she was far enough from me and my dog that she could've continued on away from us no problem, but she stopped and waited as we approached, let her dog come towards mine, etc.

TooManyDogs

Spadina wrote: »

The other owner stopped so that the dogs could approach each other actually, she was far enough from me and my dog that she could've continued on away from us no problem, but she stopped and waited as we approached, let her dog come towards mine, etc.

That's a different matter then. She had no business yelling at you about your dog if she made the approaches

Mr. Presentable

adser53 wrote: »

And the award for completely missing the point goes to....YOU! *applause*
My statement goes for any breed of dog walking off leash approaching a leashed dog. Stop nitpicking posts. I have 2 cavaliers too and if they were off leash and approached a leashed dog, say even another cav (which doesn't have to muzzled), that snapped, I wouldn't blame that dog or it's owner

Oh I see. So what you said wasn't what you meant. Well, foolish me.

**Vai**

Dogs will only snap (first) if they feel threatened. Assuming your dog trusts u to keep it safe it wont snap. If it gets snapped at, just claim the space around u, picking up your dog teaches it to be a lapdog basically, to not be able to fight for itself. No need to shout at the dog tho in fact that can be taken as aggression. Just hand gestures and body language in general should do it.

adser53

Spadina wrote: »

The other owner stopped so that the dogs could approach each other actually, she was far enough from me and my dog that she could've continued on away from us no problem, but she stopped and waited as we approached, let her dog come towards mine, etc.

Ah sorry, thats a different story altogether, my apologies. she had no business at all giving out if that's the case

adser53

nipplenuts wrote: »

Oh I see. So what you said wasn't what you meant. Well, foolish me.

Seeing as how everyone else seemed to get the meaning of my post then, yes, foolish you. I only mentioned the fact they are RB's to explain WHY they're kept on a leash. Had i said my cavalier we wouldn'nt be having this conversation.

peasant

Anthony Walsh wrote: »

Oh and anyone that thinks telling a dog to "go home" will work obviously are not training there own dog properly, its well known that dogs find one word commands alot easier than two or more worded commands.

Doesn't matter what exactly you tell the other dog or in how many words, as long as you express that it is not wanted. This does two things:

- the approching dog is put off and may actually leave
- your own dog realises that the boss does the defending and has the situation under control, so it can calm down

Either way, it diffuses the situation and that's what you want.

Hectic action, shouting and screeching on the other hand (be that one word or more ) raises the adrenalin level all round and will most likely lead to chaos and/or fighting.

lrushe

brianon wrote: »

Don't want to hijack this thread but what do you guys do when you are bringing your dog for a walk and a dog (or dogs) aggressively approaches your dog ?

At the moment we just bring our dog. But should we have a stick of sorts with us ? What do you guys do ?

I would and have done as others mentioned and get in between my dogs and approaching dogs where I wasn't 100% sure of their intentions. I also do pick my Chihuahua up if I'm am not comfortable with a dogs' body language mainly because she is easy to hold with one hand leaving the other hand free and also because I just can't take the risk if I misjudge a dogs' body language, she is so delicate even another small JRT sized dog could do alot of damage to her not to mention kill her so I just don't take the risk.

ISDW

Anthony Walsh wrote: »

Oh and anyone that thinks telling a dog to "go home" will work obviously are not training there own dog properly, its well known that dogs find one word commands alot easier than two or more worded commands.

I'm sorry but what? How does a dog know its two words and not just one long one? Sled dogs are taught to "hike on" to start pulling, "on by" to go past something, or straight on "come gee" to turn around to the right "come haw" to turn around to the left. They manage to learn the 2 word commands very well.:D

peasant

ISDW wrote: »

I'm sorry but what? How does a dog know its two words and not just one long one? Sled dogs are taught to "hike on" to start pulling, "on by" to go past something, or straight on "come gee" to turn around to the right "come haw" to turn around to the left. They manage to learn the 2 word commands very well.:D

German Shepherds even do three ...in reply:

Sir, yes, Sir! (while clicking their heels)

:D:D

(It is usually the command giver who is verbally challenged)

antocann

we love letting the staffy of the lead , usualy take her down to the local football , shes great with other dogs , never atacked or barked at another one ,

jofe

I always walk my dog - a terrier cross - on the lead because he is not good on the recall. On many occasions he has been approached by other dogs, not on leads, and almost attacked while the owner pretends not to see. Just recently in Killiney he was literally sat upon by a much larger dog while I screamed and the owner did nothing. My dog got sick afterwards, from shock I suppose. I have no problem with dogs not being on leads but if they are not under absolute control they pose a problem for other dog owners and indeed for people who may be afraid of dogs. I was interested to read the advice about standing between the dogs and shouting " go home". Will try this. I tend to avoid Killiney Hill Park now as the dogs there are allowed to be off lead and it makes the walk stressful if you are constantly fending off other dogs.

Qualitymark

I always carry a camera - in fact, most people do anyway, in their mobile phones. Taking a photo of someone and another of their misbehaving dog, if done calmly and silently, usually gets them to call the dog in and leash it.

Literary/historical note: Charlotte Bronte carried a box of pepper on her dog-walks on the moors, and shook it over attacking dogs.

variety

My dog is off the lead when we're alone (unless we're walking on a pavement beside a road). But whenever I see other dogs who are on a lead I call her back (she has excellent recall) and put her back on her lead.

She does not approach other dogs on a lead since she is now tethered. And equally she doesn't get approached by unwanted free-roaming dogs because, if they're off the lead she will be, too.

Problems arise when we meet people with more than one dog, one of which is free-roaming and the other is on a lead (usually because they are not friendly towards other dogs). I still call her back and put her on her lead in that case, but often the free dog will come over. I do find, though, that if the owners are with them, as long as you keep walking the dog will normally follow their owner and not you.

TaraR

Its common sense people. If you are walking in a park with your dog off leash and walking down your path is a leashed dog. You dont know how that other dog is going to react to your dog? Put your dogs on the bloody leash! When walking my 3 staffys and pitbull which are obvious leashed and muzzled I get little dogs running up barking causing a Nussiance making mine annoyed! And i always give a mouthfull to the owner... Sometimes people will pay up too €50 for lead and then not use it when out walking? Whats the whole point in that?

Chinasea

Why do we pay a dog licence? In the 40 years I have been walking my dogs NEVER once have I been asked to produce it nor did I meet any other dog owner who was asked for it. This country is coming down with "laws" but NO ENFORCEMETN most of us civic minded adhere to the rules but in acutal fact if we didn't bother complying we would get away with. Just dawn a track suit, swig a can of cider and your well on your way and oh yea, feic the can in the park when your finsihed! The main problems are with the usual yobs who play by no rules and because there is no enforcement whatsoever they skip through doing whatever the focaica they want and the rest of us fools simply comply.

Qualitymark

Chinasea wrote: »

This country is coming down with "laws" but NO ENFORCEMETN

True enough. Was driving through town today and everyone was blithely ignoring the 30km limit. We get all indignant and make a new law to make something that's already illegal even more illegal, and then, bored with the whole thing, abandon efforts to tackle it.

Zoundz

I have a nervous, fairly dog aggressive rescue lad - and he is *always* on lead if there are other people or dogs about. Nothing makes me more angry than people with dogs running loose, when they have little or no control over them. Countless are the times I've had to try and intervene fights, because a dog just appears out of nowhere, and blocks an escape exit! I suppose the argument would be that I shouldn't walk my dog if he might be aggressive to others, but that doesn't wash with me, my dog is *always* under control - and if someone else's dog gets snapped at, it is their fault for not exercising the same control. He does not like being approached, and it is the duty of the other owner to make sure that he is comfortable with other dogs before letting theirs meet him. Having said that, the amount of poorly trained dogs offlead around here always amazes me. Very few people seem to have control over their dogs, and many are quite shirty with people and other dogs alike!

xx

Drumpot

I have two springer collies . . The bitch is particularly stressed for some reason, she is evidently the leader of the two, but she gets very upset with barking dogs, particularly small ones (there are 2 in our estate allowed to roam free all day that tend to pee and tease them at our side gate). Once she got out from my front door and made a b-line for a small dog, which horrified me. Another time I was out jogging with my dogs in my estate after 11pm (so thought everybody elses dog would be at least inside) and we ran past the house of a dog that had been teasing mine. . As soon as that small dog did the small dog think (bark and sort of run in a weird way towards my dog), the bitch picked that dog up in her mouth and injured it badly. Since then I have to keep the bitch on a lead alot (unless there is defo no dogs nearby).

I watched a fair bit of the dog whisperer and for the life of me cant think why she gets so upset and aggresive. I know picking a smaller dog up is a dominating thing, but seriously, it was a relaxed jog and she had no reason to get so stressed (other then not liking the other dog, but I heard dogs dont keep grudges against other dogs ?! )

Now I keep the two of them on leads unless I see no dogs nearby. The male is quite obedient and quick to return but the bitch is more inclined to roam a little further and be distracted. . Because I take them onto a beach (with plenty of scope to see whats coming and whats behind me), I dont have any problems and as soon as I see another dog I lock them on leads.

However, can anybody truely say that they ever have their dog fully trained ? All you need is an unruly dog to snap or bite your dog and all bets/training is off . .

Also, would it only create more stress if I kept the bitch on the lead and let the very docile male free when other dogs are around ? It seems unfair that he has to be put back on the lead when he NEVER ever has any problems, in fact the only time he gets worked up to bark is when he is just excited . . Not a bad bite in his body . .

tk123

I always let our guy off his lead but only during allowed times - in our park people who don't want their dogs meeting others usually stay away during the off lead times so it kind of works out for everyone and the off lead dogs are well socialised.
LOL LOL thou yesterday afternoon (our park allows them off before 11 and last hour before closing) in the park with our guy on his lead we come across a westie pup off it's lead who comes over to have a little game with our guy -1 year old retriever, they play for a few mins we and walk on...next a little yorkie smaller than our guys head :pac: off the lead too comes over to us - our guy bends down to smell his nose and the owners freaked out saying our fella was going to eat their dog!! How I lol'd

thebullkf

Zoundz wrote: »

I have a nervous, fairly dog aggressive rescue lad - and he is *always* on lead if there are other people or dogs about. Nothing makes me more angry than people with dogs running loose, when they have little or no control over them. Countless are the times I've had to try and intervene fights, because a dog just appears out of nowhere, and blocks an escape exit! I suppose the argument would be that I shouldn't walk my dog if he might be aggressive to others, but that doesn't wash with me, my dog is *always* under control - and if someone else's dog gets snapped at, it is their fault for not exercising the same control. He does not like being approached, and it is the duty of the other owner to make sure that he is comfortable with other dogs before letting theirs meet him. Having said that, the amount of poorly trained dogs offlead around here always amazes me. Very few people seem to have control over their dogs, and many are quite shirty with people and other dogs alike!

xx

i'm amazed at some of the posts on this thread.
your dog is nervous,and aggressive.
yet countless times you've intervened to diffuse situations.
am i correct so far?

i think its your dog that needs training and socialisation classes tbh.

i would wager that out if the "countless" times you've had other dogs approach,not all of them are aggrerssive,which would indicate your dog has socialisation problems.
just because you can't let your dog off the lead doesn'tmean others can't.

doctor evil

thebullkf wrote: »

just because you can't let your dog off the lead doesn'tmean others can't.

It is the duty of both owners to make sure the dogs are ok with each other before they meet. The problem that comes with dogs being off the lead is that the dog could have f*ck all dog social skills and justs wanders up to another dog that is on the lead for a reason. Its worse when the owner is nowhere to be seen.

Dog fights/show of aggression can be scary and it is very foolish to stick an arm or leg in. It is a catch 22 situation as you don't want your own dog hurt.

Zoundz

I absolutely agree that my dog that needs training and socialisation - which is *exactly* what we are doing, but it's a slow process, that doesn't happen overnight, especially with an extremely nervous and traumatised animal.

Of course, I suppose I should keep him muzzled and locked in a box until he's perfect eh? I maintain that other people should be aware that not all dogs are friendly, and despite the fact that their dogs may be fine, it's not a good idea to let them offlead to bother other dogs without first finding out if those dogs are safe and comfortable with it.

I have no problem with people having a dog offlead if it is under control. Sadly, it is very very rare I see offlead dogs who are under any control at all! More often than not there's a person running behind them screaming at them to come back!

xx

morganafay

If a dog is nervous but is on the lead under control then what's the problem? Other dogs off lead shouldn't just go up to random dogs.

I know my dogs would go up to every dog they saw, and get attacked by one of them just for being friendly, and it'd be my own fault for not having them under control.

If a dog is off lead and is going up to another dog, then the owner should call it back and it should be well trained enough to do that and not bother other dogs . . .

Even a dog that is normally friendly could get scared or take a dislike to another dog and start a fight . . .



If it's in a dog park where dogs are always off lead, that's kinda different, because owners will know there'll be other dogs off lead so hopefully not bring a possibly aggressive dog, just to avoid the hassle. It'd be nice if only very friendly well socialised dogs were in a dog park and they could interact with each other. But if it's just in a normal park or on the road, then owners should try to keep their dogs away from each other, for their own safety. I used to let my dogs meet every other dog, but they got snapped at and attacked too much.

seamus

thebullkf wrote: »

just because you can't let your dog off the lead doesn'tmean others can't.

Anyone who lets their dog off lead, should have perfect recall and should have the dog in their view at all times.

Common sense says that you should not let your dog just wander up to another dog, and better yet, your dog *should not* wander up to another dog unless you've told him to.

If other people had their animals under proper control, then the issue of Zoundz's dog being nervous wouldn't be an issue because it would never arise unless Zoundz chose for it to happen.

Zoundz

Thank you all, I'm glad some others understand where I'm coming from, because I thought for a moment I must be going mad! We never take Dudley where we know there'll be offlead dogs, or for that matter other people! Not unless we are doing it, planned with someone else, to further his training and socialisation. He is very frightened around strangers and strange dogs, and we don't like making him frightened, or the risk to other people/dogs. However, obviously he has to be allowed to go for walks, so we take him to deserted beaches at stupid-o'clock in the morning etc! On occasions he meets other dogs, we can't do much to avoid it entirely - but I do wish people would either keep their dogs on lead or have them under vocal control. Nothing irks me more than meeting stray dogs >:( Where their owners just open the door and let them run loose - they are a *real* problem! :mad:

xx