unreliable bull

vanderbadger

folks whats the procedure when you buy a bull privately and discover he is unreliable, had cows scanned and 5 have shown up empty, these cows have been repeating alot, now of course they could be in calf but they have been repeating a few times so, assuming they arent in calf and removing cows catered for by old bull and ai then I reckon this guy has only bulled 3-4 cows tops in about 2 mths..should I expect previous owner to take him back?

whelan1

we sell bulls and once it happened that a bull didnt work we gave the farmer another bull at half price and he kept the original one and sent it to factory , he got more in the factory than he had paid us ... we where happy and he was happy.... years ago we bought a limousin bull from a guy in wexford he didnt put any cows in calf he just swapped him with another one no compensation per say

vanderbadger

well i should have said but this is the 2nd one ive got, first lad had no interest in cows high nor dry,brought him back and seller gave me this one this guy follows cows around for days but rarely ever see him mount them, i almost feel embassased to call the guy again, still I cant rely on this bull, i dont have a big herd anyway and now 5 good cows arent in calf, disaster

whelan1

well if i was the breeder i would want to know as people are not going to come back to buy again if there is a problem 80% of the bulls we sell are to people returning , i think pg still have a service where they can test the semen of a bull they did the lim bull we had a few years ago... getting late in the season now ... hope you didnt buy the bull off us give him a ring ...

vanderbadger

no your safe enough

John_F

As whelan said try and test the semen, its the only way of knowing if he was supposed to be guaranteed ok, did he put other cows in calf, like 5 cows out of how many aren't in calf, i ask because it could be another problem with the cows!

If theres alot more cows in calf then not much one can do i suppose as i don't think the breeder can do much for a bulls libido

vanderbadger

well this is it,its not straight forward as I feel there are a few maybe 2 or 3 cows in calf to him so I expect his semen is ok but there are other that have been bulling a good few times since he arrived that dont seem to be, so I feeel I cant rely on the bull, now bearing in mind the first bull I got off breeder didnt work either Im inclined to think he should shoulder some the issue and possibly take the animal back but thats what i wanted to get peoples opinion on..the cows by the way are i good shape, not old and have always gone in calf in previous years and some of them are only 2nd calvers reared here in my own farm

whelan1

what sort of shape is the bull in ? is he in his working clothes or was he over fed before you got him? we had a guy come back to us last year to say he never saw the bull serving any cows and when he got them scanned they where all in calf:D

vanderbadger

whelan1 wrote: »

what sort of shape is the bull in ? is he in his working clothes or was he over fed before you got him? we had a guy come back to us last year to say he never saw the bull serving any cows and when he got them scanned they where all in calf:D

not an over pushed bull at all, he is in good condition not pumped up, the only thing I can think of it that he might be a bit young, only about year and half but he is plenty big enough whether he is mature enough is another question, what worries me is his unwillingness to mount cows, you would have all the strong calves trying to mount while your man is following the cow without ever trying to mount

whelan1

maybe he got a hurt ? did you get your vet to look at him ? i think you can give the bull a shot of receptol to get him going... sounds strange that he has no interest at that age he should be raring to go... strange 2 that he is the second bull from the same farmer

vanderbadger

he is moving perfectly so cant say that he is hurt, also have seen him mount but very ocasionaly, funnily enough during a cattle test i had a cow bulling, he followed her the whole way thru the fields back to yard without mounting her or trying even but while she was in crush being tested he tried to mount her over crush..

John_F

was the cow waiting? she could be just coming into or out of heat when you see them and miss the standing heat

vanderbadger

regardless of whether she was standing for him or not I would have thought a bull would be trying to mount, now maybe he would only be following her when she is coming into heat more often that not thats all he seems to do

whelan1

does everything look to be in working order iykwim

vanderbadger

had to google that
ya, im no expert but id say so, and like i say, just from the times the scanner gave me he has put a few in calf

whelan1

wonder would a mineral lick do any good , but you bought him as a working bull really think you should go back to previous owner as the goods didnt do what it says on the tin and will end up costing you in calving dates slipping

LostCovey

vanderbadger wrote: »

folks whats the procedure when you buy a bull privately and discover he is unreliable, had cows scanned and 5 have shown up empty, these cows have been repeating alot, now of course they could be in calf but they have been repeating a few times so, assuming they arent in calf and removing cows catered for by old bull and ai then I reckon this guy has only bulled 3-4 cows tops in about 2 mths..should I expect previous owner to take him back?

What age is he?

LC

vanderbadger

yr and a half

reilig

GHow long are the cows gone? As was discussed in a thread earlier this week, some scanners won't pick up cows in calf unless they are at least 2 months gone?? Have you seen many of the cows coming in heat or even repeating coming in heat??

Did you buy the bull privately or from a society sale - most society sales will have insurance to cover infertile bulls - have a neighbour who had 30 cows a few years ago. He bought a bull at a limousin society sale and only 2 out of the 30 cows went in calf. He got well compensated for it from the insurance. Or do you have insurance for the bull yourself?? You could claim there???

vanderbadger

this guy reckoned he need a month to detect in calf so it spossible they are in calf, will know shortly as Ive marked them in calander, they have been bulling a few times since bull has been here though, he was bought privately

pakalasa

Vandebadger,
A lot of those Charolais bulls are slow to mature, compare to say a Limousin. Has he developed a strong bulls head by now?

LostCovey

vanderbadger wrote: »

yr and a half

He IS young, I wouldn't write him off yet. Don't think I would rely on one that young either. Not much help, I know!

LC

whelan1

did you talk to the guy you bought him off yet ? would drive me mad seeing cows on heat and the bull not interested

JupiterKid

Don't mean to be funny but maybe the bull just doesn't like cows? Maybe he prefers the company of other bulls?:pac:

whelan1

JupiterKid wrote: »

Don't mean to be funny but maybe the bull just doesn't like cows? Maybe he prefers the company of other bulls?:pac:

we had a gay bull a few years ago - no joke - no interest at all in heifers , just glad we hadnt sold him to someone :rolleyes:

bbam

whelan1 wrote: »

wonder would a mineral lick do any good

We're trying this... We had problems last spring with cows coming back and back and then very weak calves disinterested in getting up and sucking...

Half way through calving we started with trace minerals and the last two calves started well.. The vet said its a possibility that the bull and cows were difficient in trace elements/minerals...

So far I haven't noticed any cows coming back to the bull and definitely their visible condition is better... We're getting the cows scanned in the autumn and that should tell more of the story..

Of course the calving down in the spring will really tell and by that stage the cows will have had a second session of the trace elements... It's fingers crossed here !!

wiggy123

what breed the bull? i do find bulls in some breeds have little interest in doing there job!
the cows coming a bulling on top of each other?? no??

LostCovey

whelan1 wrote: »

we had a gay bull a few years ago - no joke - no interest at all in heifers , just glad we hadnt sold him to someone :rolleyes:

Don't dumb everything down, whelan1, thats a bit tabloidy, and no need for it.

Low libido is common in bulls reared as they are now - fed to death, pushed to crazy weights at absurdly young ages, then expected to do the divil and all. No wonder they pack it in.

LC

whelan1

i tell things as they are we do not over feed our bulls they are sold as working bulls not the overfed show type .....

JupiterKid

I'm sure whelan1 knows what he's talking about. Look at the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Kristopherus

Has the A.I. man gone out of fashion?

LostCovey

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm sure whelan1 knows what he's talking about. Look at the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Long article, no mention of cattle.

whelan1

Kristopherus wrote: »

Has the A.I. man gone out of fashion?

different folks different strokes i suppose , mightn't suit this guys operation

LostCovey

whelan1 wrote: »

different folks different strokes

An unfortunate phrase to choose in the context.

Ooooohhh Maaaatronnnn ! ! !

vanderbadger

luckily i have the earlier calvers ai'd or id be in worse situation..once the cows go out ai is too much hassle for me as I work full time..noticed calves chasing cow since friday evening last, bull was trapsing around after her yesterday but no mount, same story again today! brought her in, seperated her from herd and left her with bull by themselves, he made a few efforts, got sick of waiting around so put her in a calfing gate i have and left bull behind her..he mounted her anyway so left them off again..hard to know what to do, i think the bull is ok but maybe lazy or low libido perhaps,this cow wasnt really standing for him and it seems to me unless a cow practically rolls over for him he isnt to interested.. my old charolais bull would mount anything put in front of him, this guy is different, will just have to see if those other cows come bulling again and if they do I might have to try an ai them.. at this stage its getting late so maybe as well let them off