Geohot gives up at hacking PS3, preforms Seppuku.

Varik

January, you’ll remember, was bat**** insane, when iPhone hacker Geohot first claimed to have broken into the PS3, and then released something that didn’t really seem to do very much apart from get Sony’s technical boffins all hot and bothered. Back and forth they went, until Sony took the unprecedented step of removing the option to run Linux from the newer firmwares, which many assume was directly linked to the hacking progress. The whole thing was summed up nicely here.

Well, now Geohot’s claiming to have retired from the hacking scene, saying “goodbye“, bringing an end to speculation that a ‘custom firmware’ will appear for Sony’s console from him at least. Geohot yesterday claimed to have hacked the iPhone 4, but confirmed today that it was a ‘fake‘. Geohot’s blog is now invite only.

eddhorse

Hurray ! Its win win, apart from the OtherOS lose part

Minstrel27

He is a moron. A part of the OS that people used was removed because of that idiot.

Retr0gamer

Blame Sony for using a sledgehammer to swat a fly for that one.

Grumpypants

Some people get big lump sums when they retire not saying thats what happened here thought of course...

NotorietyH

Grumpypants wrote: »

Some people get big lump sums when they retire not saying thats what happened here thought of course...

Yes because Sony thinks the best way to deter hackers is to give them a cash incentive to try and hack their systems.

"Hey if you get good enough to hack our hardware, we'll give you loads of money!"

Helix

Varik wrote: »

yesterday claimed to have hacked the iPhone 4, but confirmed today that it was a ‘fake‘. Geohot’s blog is now invite only.

iphone os4 HAS been hacked tho

Helix

Minstrel27 wrote: »

He is a moron. A part of the OS that people used was removed because of that idiot.

hes far from a moron or an idiot

that was sony filling their pants

Minstrel27

Helix wrote: »

hes far from a moron or an idiot

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine.

Retr0gamer

NotorietyH wrote: »

Yes because Sony thinks the best way to deter hackers is to give them a cash incentive to try and hack their systems.

"Hey if you get good enough to hack our hardware, we'll give you loads of money!"

Eh I'd say it's more like 'Either you accept this big fat cheque and publically stop hacking the PS3 or we will slap a cease and desist order on you that you won't win because you won't have the funds to see the whole thing through court. If you think we are bluffing then remember how we backrupted Lik-sang? Good boy.'

eddhorse

I think you are both right.

He is obviously gifted with "skillz" but he acts like a dick !

Grumpypants

NotorietyH wrote: »

Yes because Sony thinks the best way to deter hackers is to give them a cash incentive to try and hack their systems.

"Hey if you get good enough to hack our hardware, we'll give you loads of money!"

More like you are causing us a lot of grief how about we hire you to be our head of anti hacking !!

Which is where a lot of hackers tend to end up

Otacon

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Eh I'd say it's more like 'Either you accept this big fat cheque and publically stop hacking the PS3 or we will slap a cease and desist order on you that you won't win because you won't have the funds to see the whole thing through court. If you think we are bluffing then remember how we backrupted Lik-sang? Good boy.'

Why would they give him money if they could just as easily go to the courts?

aperture_nuig

Otacon wrote: »

Why would they give him money if they could just as easily go to the courts?

Would the courts not cost more?

NotorietyH

aperture_nuig wrote: »

Would the courts not cost more?

Yes but again, going to court wouldn't be offering hackers a cash incentive to try and hack the PS3.

Helix

NotorietyH wrote: »

Yes but again, going to court wouldn't be offering hackers a cash incentive to try and hack the PS3.

you honestly think they need a cash incentive to do it?

theyre going to do it regardless

nothing wrong with guys trying to beat security features on electronics imo

NotorietyH

Helix wrote: »

you honestly think they need a cash incentive to do it?

theyre going to do it regardless

Yes which is kinda my point. They're already eager enough to do it, why give them further incentive? They're trying to discourage hackers not encourage them.

Retr0gamer

Otacon wrote: »

Why would they give him money if they could just as easily go to the courts?

It would cost a lot but the publicity would be terrible. There was a massive backlash against sony when they shut down Lik-Sang in a very underhanded manner because they had the gall to import PSPs to Europe.

A massive corporation taking a small time individual to court in a case where Sony are infact in the wrong but will winby attrition by bankrupting the individual is never going to look good.

Otacon

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It would cost a lot but the publicity would be terrible. There was a massive backlash against sony when they shut down Lik-Sang in a very underhanded manner because they had the gall to import PSPs to Europe.

What did Sony do wrong here? I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with the case.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

A massive corporation taking a small time individual to court in a case where Sony are infact in the wrong but will winby attrition by bankrupting the individual is never going to look good.

How are Sony in the wrong here? Are they not just protecting themselves from piracy?

Helix

Otacon wrote: »

How are Sony in the wrong here? Are they not just protecting themselves from piracy?

im not sure where exactly they stand on it. is it ACTUALLY illegal for me to goof around with the insides of something i bought?

Grumpypants

Otacon wrote: »

What did Sony do wrong here? I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with the case.

There was an Asian site that used to sell Asian PSP's to people in Europe. Of course as corporations continue to rip off EU customers by charging far more than Asian or US customers they got upset at the loss of profits. They took a law suit against the site and shut it down.

Otacon wrote: »

How are Sony in the wrong here? Are they not just protecting themselves from piracy?

Stealing or pirating games is wrong opening up your PS3 isn't wrong. Its your property if you want to put it on the roof and use it to scare crows you should be able to without fear of being taken to court. Its like that saying i don't agree with what you say but ill defend your right to say it. I don't agree with what Geohot does but ill defend his right to do it.

I always laugh when Sony claim piracy as i can remember when Hollywood took Sony to court because they where making video recorders that could pirate films. If Sony really took the high moral ground on piracy they would stop manufacturing the items pirates use to pirate games !! Sony fought all the arguments Hollywood made but are now making the same arguments they fought !!

Varik

Grumpypants wrote: »

Stealing or pirating games is wrong opening up your PS3 isn't wrong.

very true but

Grumpypants wrote: »

Its your property if you want to put it on the roof and use it to scare crows

The hardware is your property, the software (games or the ps3 OS) is a licence that you have the right to use.

Grumpypants wrote: »

without fear of being taken to court

But in a lot of countries the attempt to circumvent any some sort of security is illegal to some extent, even a simple password of 123 if Sony has used any method to prevent hacking then trying to do so is illegal. i have no idea if this applied to Ireland but considering eircom just made a deal with Sony among others about pirating music, it's not a far leap that Sony or Microsoft could hand eircom a list of IPs that used a hacked system and have their internet connection discounted, if assuming another deal was done.

I have a 60GB but still upgraded the linux install i had was not that great, i tried it and used it for a while to play mkvs but it was a hassle.

Helix

Varik wrote: »

considering eircom just made a deal with Sony among others about pirating music

they didnt

they made a deal with IMRO

Varik

Helix wrote: »

they didnt

they made a deal with IMRO

Of who Sony is a member, and for whose interest they acted.

Wiki wrote:

Irish Music Rights Organisation (IMRO) is the collecting society for songwriters, composers and music publishers of Ireland. Its role is to act as an agent for its members in order to collect license fees whenever their musical works are performed in public, broadcast or transmitted, and to pay out performing royalties.

Helix

they didnt make a deal with sony though, they made a deal with imro who are struggling big time

and it was a half cooked deal too, which wont prevent ANYONE who knows what theyre at from downloading music. very much a "well look, we did what we could" move to shut imro up

Varik

Helix wrote: »

they didnt make a deal with sony though, they made a deal with imro who are struggling big time
and it was a half cooked deal too, which wont prevent ANYONE who knows what theyre at from downloading music. very much a "well look, we did what we could" move to shut imro up

Part of the deal was to block the pirates bay and your right that's nothing but
eircom have sent out the letters already with the warrings to the IPs downloading music over torrents, i don't thinks anyone been disconnected yet but it's not just keeping up a façade to the imro.

Retr0gamer

Otacon wrote: »

What did Sony do wrong here? I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with the case.

How are Sony in the wrong here? Are they not just protecting themselves from piracy?

It's not that Sony are in the worng it's more that Geohot is not in the wrong and they don't have a case against him. They are allowed to protect themselves from piracy but there's no laws against Geohot hacking a piece of hardware that he himself owns. Now if he released any software that contained some of sonys code, like say a cutom firmware then they would have a case but he never did and never intended to.

Grumpypants wrote: »

There was an Asian site that used to sell Asian PSP's to people in Europe. Of course as corporations continue to rip off EU customers by charging far more than Asian or US customers they got upset at the loss of profits. They took a law suit against the site and shut it down.

The way they shut them was a bit underhanded. They filed lawsuits against them in every european court they court and made sure that Lik-Sang couldn't turn up to them resources or logistics wise all even if they wished to defend themselves so pretty much won by default since Lik Sang had no way to defend themselves. If they had, then free market and competition laws would have meant that Sony would lose the case spectacularly just like what happened when they tried to ban mod chips in Australia.

Varik

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's not that Sony are in the worng it's more that Geohot is not in the wrong and they don't have a case against him. They are allowed to protect themselves from piracy but there's no laws against Geohot hacking a piece of hardware that he himself owns. Now if he released any software that contained some of sonys code, like say a cutom firmware then they would have a case but he never did and never intended to.

Anti-circumvention has all the laws including the US, and unless he could hack the ps3 without getting passed or circumvention anything that was meant to prevent him from doing so it was illegal.

Otacon

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's not that Sony are in the worng it's more that Geohot is not in the wrong and they don't have a case against him. They are allowed to protect themselves from piracy but there's no laws against Geohot hacking a piece of hardware that he himself owns. Now if he released any software that contained some of sonys code, like say a cutom firmware then they would have a case but he never did and never intended to.

Varik wrote: »

Anti-circumvention has all the laws including the US, and unless he could hack the ps3 without getting passed or circumvention anything that was meant to prevent him from doing so it was illegal.

If he had released the code though, it would have been too late for Sony to sue him as they would lose millions in piracy.

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's not that Sony are in the worng it's more that Geohot is not in the wrong and they don't have a case against him. They are allowed to protect themselves from piracy but there's no laws against Geohot hacking a piece of hardware that he himself owns. Now if he released any software that contained some of sonys code, like say a cutom firmware then they would have a case but he never did and never intended to.

Not exactly correct. After Sony announced they were removing OtherOS support he said he'd be working on CFW (3.21OO) which would re-enable its use. That clearly wasn't legal. Now, whether he was successful or not remains to be seen but the fact remains, he is the sole reason OtherOS support was removed and as one of the (admittedly few) customers who used it, I'm still peeved over the whole affair.

Helix

Varik wrote: »

eircom have sent out the letters already with the warrings to the IPs downloading music over torrents, i don't thinks anyone been disconnected yet but it's not just keeping up a façade to the imro.

it REALLY is just keeping up appearances

its nothing more

Retr0gamer

gizmo wrote: »

Not exactly correct. After Sony announced they were removing OtherOS support he said he'd be working on CFW (3.21OO) which would re-enable its use. That clearly wasn't legal. Now, whether he was successful or not remains to be seen but the fact remains, he is the sole reason OtherOS support was removed and as one of the (admittedly few) customers who used it, I'm still peeved over the whole affair.

It wasn't his fault. Sony removed it. It's not his fault they filled their pants when they heard someone was making head way into hacking their system, it was always going to happen. It was a heavy handed solution to the problem and it was only added by Sony because they were trying to be cheapskates by passing the system off as a personal computer and not an entertainment system in europe to get taxes reduced. Blame Sony, not Geohot.

As for Sony losing millions to piracy, boo-hoo.

Otacon

Retr0gamer wrote: »

As for Sony losing millions to piracy, boo-hoo.

Piracy hurts everyone. Yes, those big evil corporations getting hurt isn't going to stop anyone sleeping, but the repercussions of this is higher prices and sh!t attempts at DRM for the rest of us.

Anyway, while I didn't care about the Other OS feature, I blame its removal on this a**hole.

Retr0gamer

Again sony removed it, not Geohot.

Scuid Mhór

i'm going to miss geohot. his hacking skills were useful, especially for the jailbreaking community, but i guess the devteam has that covered nowadays. there was lots of laughs back in january when sony were going crazy. that was awesome.

i salute you, sir.

Minstrel27 wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine.

i'm sorry but that's just a silly cop-out.

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It wasn't his fault. Sony removed it. It's not his fault they filled their pants when they heard someone was making head way into hacking their system, it was always going to happen. It was a heavy handed solution to the problem and it was only added by Sony because they were trying to be cheapskates by passing the system off as a personal computer and not an entertainment system in europe to get taxes reduced. Blame Sony, not Geohot.

Blaming Sony is ridiculous. They never would have removed it had he not made his work and the possible effects so public. It also wasn't heavy handed, they simply shut off the only avenue for hackers to succeed in cracking the machine. Again, it wouldn't have happened had they not tried it, therefore it is his fault and his fault alone.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

As for Sony losing millions to piracy, boo-hoo.

And what about all of the other developers who would lose out? Boo-hoo to them too? I'm surprised at you Retr0gamer

Nick_oliveri

gizmo wrote: »

And what about all of the other developers who would lose out? Boo-hoo to them too? I'm surprised at you Retr0gamer

Devs losing out yeah? Why didnt Valve go Ps3 exclusive if they were so worried about piracy, or Rockstar with the GTA4 game and addons. Hmm, "Ps3 is too hard to develop for" vs "losing millions to piracy"...

Varik

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Devs losing out yeah? Why didnt Valve go Ps3 exclusive if they were so worried about piracy, or Rockstar with the GTA4 game and addons. Hmm, "Ps3 is too hard to develop for" vs "losing millions to piracy"...

Valve are PC/Steam there is no way they start going exclusive to PS3 or 360, consoles were a second thought for them so was mac until recently. The fact that they can port to 360 so easily (it's just the same as a PC) was the reason it got more, now PS3 have the steam work they will be putting more into it.

The numbers Rockstar got by going multi-platform made up for any losses to piracy, especially when the PS3 numbers were low then, and MS paid for the DLC.

Valve were the ones pushing the "Ps3 is too hard to develop for" argument the most and that's changed now even with the remaining unique architecture of the PS3. Sony have stated that they will be improving the support and keep some continuity with the PS3 for uses in future consoles.

Retr0gamer

gizmo wrote: »

Blaming Sony is ridiculous. They never would have removed it had he not made his work and the possible effects so public. It also wasn't heavy handed, they simply shut off the only avenue for hackers to succeed in cracking the machine. Again, it wouldn't have happened had they not tried it, therefore it is his fault and his fault alone.

How about Sony bringing out a firmware that made their console airtight. They could have put resources into that. Instead they completely got rid of a feature that was advertised. It must have been obvious to Sony that the weak link in their security was the Other OS feature from the start. It shouldn't have been a surprise if someone tried to hack their machine. Some one is of course going to try to break thier security, it'sa statement of the obvious to say that hackers like the challenge of breaking of machines, the harder it is the bigger the challenge and the more interest from hackers. Sony have been very lucky that their security hasn't been cracked.

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

How about Sony bringing out a firmware that made their console airtight. They could have put resources into that. Instead they completely got rid of a feature that was advertised. It must have been obvious to Sony that the weak link in their security was the Other OS feature from the start. It shouldn't have been a surprise if someone tried to hack their machine. Some one is of course going to try to break thier security, it'sa statement of the obvious to say that hackers like the challenge of breaking of machines, the harder it is the bigger the challenge and the more interest from hackers. Sony have been very lucky that their security hasn't been cracked.

There was no need for "secure" firmware due to the presence of the hypervisor. With that breached via OtherOS and the only way of hypothetically loading CFW being through the same way, they had no choice but to close it off. To reiterate, I'm not happy they did it but I also don't really blame them given the circumstances.