Sub 19 5k advice please

RandyMann

I am currently running 23 min average 5k on a treadmill. I started training 5 weeks ago and have gone from 28 min down to this time.
My training has been 3 times a week, one fast as I can 5k , one slow 10k about 49-52 mins and one long run usually 90 mins in duration.
These are all done on a treadmill but I will embark on road running this weekend.
My aim is to run in the rathfarhnam 5k, 26th Sept and I would like to go sub 19 minutes for that. My question, is that time too ambitious and if not any tips how to train for it, bearing in mind its 10 weeks from Sunday.

menoscemo

I'd say your training plan is about right. You could add some intervals (e.g 10 x 400m @mile pace) with zome recovery between.
Other than that the only other advice is to get off the threadmill and do all your session outside whether than be on grass, roads or a track.

Krusty_Clown

Sounds like you're making solid progress, but you could build up to more runs per week, if you're very keen on hitting your goal (gradually). Also get off that treadmill. It won't give you a realistic reflection of where you are right now, in comparison to road running.

RandyMann

Thanks for advice guys, appreciate that. I understand the reasons to get off the treadmill. I just found it easy to use for the sake of setting pace/speed etc. and also I knew how far the distance I was running. Unfortunately I dont live near a track but I am going to measure out rough distances in my car to guage distances this weekend.
When you say mile pace, do you mean run my fastest mile and then work it out from that? (memesco)
How many runs do you advise per week? (krusty)

menoscemo

RandyMann wrote: »

When you say mile pace, do you mean run my fastest mile and then work it out from that?

You could do that, or you could type in a recent race result here and it will give you the equivalent time over different distances. It will also give you suggested paces for different sessions such as intervals.

seanynova

i used to run on a threadmill all the time, what i used to do for speed work was 5mins warm up, 10x20secfast/40sec slow, 5mins warm down.

at each Xmin:53sec(take about 7sec for the speed to actually build up.), i would up the pace to 16, 17, 18, 19, or 20(max), hold it for 20secs and reduce back again.

i think the fastest i did was something like, 16km/hr for 2mins(1:53mins), and 25sec @ 20km/hr per minute, until i hit the 5k. cant remember the time but is was mid-late teens, maybe 17mins? long time ago though

anyway, its a good threadmill session and is easy to build on, add and extra run one week, or more speed, more time etc...

Krusty_Clown

There are others on the forum who are far more knowledgable on the subject of 5k training, but over the course of 10 weeks, you could certainly built up to 5 days a week, with potentially another day for cross training (cycle, walk, etc). It really depends on how much time you want to commit to making your goal.

I would advise mapping out a 5k route though, to get a more realistic idea of where you are right now in relation to your goal.

RandyMann

Thanks for all above, those sites are very good, have 10k on road planned for tomorrow now.

RodSteel

seanynova wrote: »

i used to run on a threadmill all the time, what i used to do for speed work was 5mins warm up, 10x20secfast/40sec slow, 5mins warm down.

at each Xmin:53sec(take about 7sec for the speed to actually build up.), i would up the pace to 16, 17, 18, 19, or 20(max), hold it for 20secs and reduce back again.

i think the fastest i did was something like, 16km/hr for 2mins(1:53mins), and 25sec @ 20km/hr per minute, until i hit the 5k. cant remember the time but is was mid-late teens, maybe 17mins? long time ago though

anyway, its a good threadmill session and is easy to build on, add and extra run one week, or more speed, more time etc...

Thats an interesting speed session Seany. I may try it. When you did the 40 secs slow, how slow did you slow it down to? Half the top speed or walking pace or something else?

RayCun

RandyMann wrote: »

Thanks for advice guys, appreciate that. I understand the reasons to get off the treadmill. I just found it easy to use for the sake of setting pace/speed etc. and also I knew how far the distance I was running.

You're probably not too far from Tymon Park? There are kilometre markings on the paths there, get yourself a stopwatch and you're away.

littlebug

Get going on the road as soon as you can. I'm not exactly known for my speed in these parts but I was doing most of my running on the over the winter and I managed 3 miles in 24 minutes at one point. my fastest 5k n the road is 27 mins:(. The two really aren't comparable IMO but don't be disheartened if you are slower... just get out more!

Gringo78

RandyMann wrote: »

I am currently running 23 min average 5k on a treadmill. I started training 5 weeks ago and have gone from 28 min down to this time.
My training has been 3 times a week, one fast as I can 5k , one slow 10k about 49-52 mins and one long run usually 90 mins in duration.

If 23min is 'fast as you can' for the 5k, then the 10k run you are doing is not actually slow, its a 10k at your HM pace, actually its quite a good tempo run. I'd drop the fast as you can 5k session and do the speed/interval sessions the lads were suggesting instead. Keep up the 10k and limit the 5k time trial attempts to maybe one 2 or 3 weeks before the race. Actual the speed sessions like 10x400m as suggested below would give a fair indication of the pace your capable of. As a first attempt, try the 10x400m at a pace of 14.5km/hr (9mph) on the treadmill putting it back down to 8 or 9km/hr for the 2min jog recovery after each 400m. The first few will seem easy but it'll be hard to complete the 10. You can up the speed by 0.2km/hr each week but be patient and if you can't complete the 10 then you're attempting too fast.

You should probably be capable to doing this 10x400m session at a speed of 17km/hr if you want to break 19min for 5k so 10 weeks might be ambitious to get there put train smart and who knows.

Sport101

RandyMann wrote: »

My aim is to run in the rathfarhnam 5k, 26th Sept and I would like to go sub 19 minutes for that. My question, is that time too ambitious and if not any tips how to train for it, bearing in mind its 10 weeks from Sunday.

Good choice for a pb, fastest 5k around as far as I know... first mile is a sprint, as is the last 1k.

shels4ever

Sport101 wrote: »

Good choice for a pb, fastest 5k around as far as I know... first mile is a sprint, as is the last 1k.

I've never run this one but plan to this year, hope to have a crack at the sub 20 around then.

seanynova

RodSteel wrote: »

Thats an interesting speed session Seany. I may try it. When you did the 40 secs slow, how slow did you slow it down to? Half the top speed or walking pace or something else?

at the atart it was prob down to a slow run, more than a jog/walk but after a while of doing that i was able to slow down to speed 16 or 16.5km/hr for the 35sec/min.

but if starting out, run of 10-12km/hr and speed of 14-16km/hr would be fast enough, and for 10reps.
its very easy to build on, more "slow" speed / more "fast" speed / more reps / and longer reps.

all that said, its nothing compared to road running, my old threadmill style running was different, i was taking huge strides, kind of floating or getting lots of "air" time, not propelling myself forward, so didnt have to work as hard as i do on the road!

RandyMann

Ok, update on my progress.
I am doing 1 km intervals, 5 off at a pace of 3:50 with a 2 minute walk rest in between, once a week.
My 400m intervals, I do 10 reps at a pace of 1:20 with a 60 sec walk rest in between, once a week
I do a fast 5k at roughly 20:30 once a week.
I also cross train 2 days a week with weights, the day after my interval sessions and that also includes recovery run of 30 mins on treadmill.
My long slow run on a sunday morning is now an eight mile at roughly 65-70 minutes.
My running is outdoors, 4 times a week, so with 4 weeks left of training, does a sub 19 5 k look possible?
Bearing in mind, I have not done any flat out 5ks since last post here.

RandyMann

actually scratch possible, its a certainty

BeepBeep67

Good luck with the training RandyMann.
You say Rathfarnham is the target so you have 5 weeks to maximise your speed and speed endurance, so that's 4 weeks of training and a week where you will taper down slightly to be fresh come race day.
What works for me in the lead up to a 5k race are 2 key sessions, 1 at faster than 5k pace and 1 at 5k pace (covering race distance for the quality part of the sessions) doing these weekly with 2 - 3 days between the sessions.
You're covering one session (10 x 400) at a good pace for your target, your could add 1 interval per week over the next 2 weeks to get ot 12 and add a 3 x 1 mile at target race pace (6:07) with a 400m (2 min) recovery on another day. These along with your longer run (try to get to 10 miles) and a couple of jogs with give you a good balance of speed, speed-endurance and endurance to set you up for success.

RandyMann

Hey Beep, thanks for advice. Planning on running/racing the 2 mile bhaa track meet tonight. Undecided to go flat out or just do a fast pace run.
I suppose going flat out will give me a good indication of where my 5k would be, but kind of concerned that it may have an impact on tight training schedule, hence recovery etc.
What are your thoughts?

BeepBeep67

I'm running the 2mile tonight and a 5k on Sat - it's a down week for me (75% of average mileage) - I'll just do a couple of easy runs in between to loosen out. Depending on who you read they suggest either a days recovery per mile raced or 3k raced.
You should give tonight a lash - McMillian suggests 11:41 to be on target for a sub 19 5k.

RandyMann

That 2 mile was a disaster last night, over 13 mins :eek: It was a good realisation of fitness/pacing and lack of.
Back to the drawing board, in fact sub 20 5k rather than sub 19 will be more realistic in Sept.

mloc123

RandyMann wrote: »

That 2 mile was a disaster last night, over 13 mins :eek: It was a good realisation of fitness/pacing and lack of.
Back to the drawing board, in fact sub 20 5k rather than sub 19 will be more realistic in Sept.

Did you go out too fast and blow up or did you even split it?

RandyMann

mloc123 wrote: »

Did you go out too fast and blow up or did you even split it?

I went out in under 6 but blew up after that, nothing in legs

ManFromAtlantis

dont be too disheartened. out in sub 6 is where it went wrong. and i should know i have ruined many a race by bolting off too quick.

if your doing 5x1km at 3:50 in training you cant be too far away from sub 19.5 or 20.
your progress in such a short time is pretty impressive.

dna_leri

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

dont be too disheartened. out in sub 6 is where it went wrong. and i should know i have ruined many a race by bolting off too quick.

if your doing 5x1km at 3:50 in training you cant be too far away from sub 19.5 or 20.
your progress in such a short time is pretty impressive.

If you were looking at 11:41 for 2 miles, then you were right to do the first mile in 6 mins. Now you know you are not ready for that pace yet.

You have the speed but you need to work on the strength to sustain it.
Those longer intervals mentioned by bb67 (3x1 mile) + your long runs are what should get you there.

RandyMann

I think my bad performance may be down to leg tiredness as a part factor. 10 miles on the sunday morning and some hard hill sessions last week and I may not have recovered from them.
Time will rell on the 26th Sept and sure the fun is in the training, whatever result !

ecoli

Keep the head up the bad days are there to make the good days all the more sweeter have faith in your training you are in better shape than you think your sessions prove that