Infants and Vitamin K

mardybumbum

What is the protocol regarding the prescribing of vitamin K to infants in Ireland?
Or are there any guidelines at all?

There are a few newborns in my family and as far as I know none of them are taking vitamin K or have taken it.

So is it something that is done here or is it really only needed when the mother is taking warfarin?

I came across this article on the HSE website which states that "all babies should receive one dose of vitamin K prophylaxis at birth". I haven't been able to find out if it actually is done or not.

Have just been reading a bit on anticoagulants and the question arose.

ORLY?

Open to correction...I don't think it's done as standard but I think the option of a vitamin K injection at birth is often given. I know there is a list of "options" the midwives at least go through and it's on that.

charlieroot

I've seen it done in the Coombe recently and to the best of my knowledge its routinely done everywhere in Ireland? But I can't attest to that 100%.

mardybumbum

ORLY? wrote: »

Open to correction...I don't think it's done as standard but I think the option of a vitamin K injection at birth is often given. I know there is a list of "options" the midwives at least go through and it's on that.

Thanks.
Do you have any idea how many parents opt for the injection?
I read in one article that claims were made associating vitamin K injections with leukemia.
I wondered if that would put a number of parents off the idea.

ORLY?

mardybumbum wrote: »

Thanks.
Do you have any idea how many parents opt for the injection?
I read in one article that claims were made associating vitamin K injections with leukemia.
I wondered if that would put a number of parents off the idea.

No idea on the numbers. I've just seen it offered as part of the birth plan at midwife lead ante-natal clinics.

If you give me 12-18 months I can get back to you after my OBGYN attachment.

mardybumbum

If you give me 12-18 months I can get back to you after my OBGYN attachment.

No problem at all. I shall wait by my laptop for your reply.

Perhaps the parents I talked couldn't recall it when I discussed postnatal care with them. My family are probably sick of me asking questions about their health anyway.

A Neurotic

Just as an aside, there a court case recently in Cork about a boy suffering a brain haemorrhage a few weeks after birth, allegedly due to not receiving a vitamin K injection at birth. It's implied that it's standard practice to give the Vitamin K shot to newborns:

"The court was told babies are deficient in Vitamin K and thus susceptible to bleeding disorders but that risk can be avoided through Vitamin K injections at birth. That was normal practice at the Bon Secours hospital at the time Colm was born, it was claimed".

Echani

Vitamin K was given as a quick shot in the bum at all the deliveries I was present for during my OB/GYN rotation, and I didn't hear of any parents refusing it, though I'm sure it happens. It's given within a few minutes of the baby being born and usually at the incubator (not right in front of the mother) after the baby is cleaned up, with consent being given prior to birth and generally confirmed before the injection is given. There's a lot going on during delivery or C-section for the parents, so it's not really surprising that some don't remember it being given.

It's standard practice to give it because babies are generally deficient in vitamin K for a variety of reasons - little bacterial flora in the gut to produce it, little content in breast milk, doesn't cross the placenta very well. Nothing to do with warfarin, which isn't a drug many pregnant women will be on anyway, usually.

CathyMoran

My son was given it - he was born by c-section as he was not growing (am diabetic (type 1) and a cancer survivor)...they asked my husband for consent but we were told about it before hand as well.

SomeDose

I'm sure most hospitals will have their own protocols on place for vitamin K administration to all newborns, and I imagine it's mandatory practice unless specifically declined by the parents. Where I work in the UK, all newborns get 1 or 2 doses within the first week. They can all get it as a single intramuscular shot after delivery (essential for high risk babies), alternatively those babies at low risk of bleeding may get it as 2 oral doses (at birth and about 7 days later).

mardybumbum

Echani wrote: »

Vitamin K was given as a quick shot in the bum at all the deliveries I was present for during my OB/GYN rotation, and I didn't hear of any parents refusing it, though I'm sure it happens. It's given within a few minutes of the baby being born and usually at the incubator (not right in front of the mother) after the baby is cleaned up, with consent being given prior to birth and generally confirmed before the injection is given. There's a lot going on during delivery or C-section for the parents, so it's not really surprising that some don't remember it being given.

It's standard practice to give it because babies are generally deficient in vitamin K for a variety of reasons - little bacterial flora in the gut to produce it, little content in breast milk, doesn't cross the placenta very well. Nothing to do with warfarin, which isn't a drug many pregnant women will be on anyway, usually.

Thanks for your reply Echani.
Can I ask what hospital you did your rotation in?
It seems from the replies, that vitamin K is indeed given to all infants or that it is standard protocol in the majority of hospitals.

Laydee

Holles street do it as standard. In 2006 I was asked if I was ok with it & in 2007 I wasn't asked, I was told that babies need it & it's given as standard practice.

Echani

mardybumbum wrote: »

Can I ask what hospital you did your rotation in?

I was in the Rotunda for most of it, and also in St. Lukes in Kilkenny where the practice was similar.

lisa mac

for any of you that are unsure about the vitamin k shot have a read of this article.
It is routine here in ireland so if you do not want it given to your baby you must write it in your birth plan and if you are worried carry the oral supplement in your hospital bag.

http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=2427

Here below is one quote from article....

'This injection is routinely done to almost all newborns, unless you, as a parent, refuse to consent.
Birth is an overwhelming sensory experience for your baby. He has never before experienced cold or hunger, been blinded by artificial lights, or felt the touch of hands or metal instruments, paper or cloth. Even gravity is a foreign sensation.
A needle stick is a terrible assault to their suddenly overloaded sensory system, which is trying to adjust to the outside world.
Is this injection really in your baby’s best interest? Is vitamin K really necessary immediately after birth? Or is there a more compassionate alternative?'

lisa mac

lisa mac wrote: »

for any of you that are unsure about the vitamin k shot have a read of this article.
It is routine here in ireland so if you do not want it given to your baby you must write it in your birth plan and if you are worried carry the oral supplement in your hospital bag.

http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=2427

Here below is one quote from article....

'This injection is routinely done to almost all newborns, unless you, as a parent, refuse to consent.
Birth is an overwhelming sensory experience for your baby. He has never before experienced cold or hunger, been blinded by artificial lights, or felt the touch of hands or metal instruments, paper or cloth. Even gravity is a foreign sensation.
A needle stick is a terrible assault to their suddenly overloaded sensory system, which is trying to adjust to the outside world.
Is this injection really in your baby’s best interest? Is vitamin K really necessary immediately after birth? Or is there a more compassionate alternative?'

If I had just been squeezed through a hole smaller than my head I imagine a needle prick would be nothing in comparison.

lisa mac

Deleted User wrote: »

If I had just been squeezed through a hole smaller than my head I imagine a needle prick would be nothing in comparison.

Why would you bother if there is alternatives?? Did you read all the article? As well as it being way above the dose needed it is proven that chilhood trauma can lead to phycolgical problems later in life.
We pump all sorts of things unnessarily into our babies and children just trusting our doctors that they're safe, with the information we have so easily at hand nowadays we have no excuse to be ignorant.
It is still trauma to your baby even if its not as bad as being born, which is a very natural thing, whereas injections are not!
Im fed up of the 'it'll be grand' attitude!!:mad:

locum-motion

Oh, come on!

lisa mac wrote: »

...that chilhood trauma can lead to phycolgical problems later in life...

A. An injection is not 'traumatic'.
B. Even if it was, you're talking about newborn babies. Memory doesn't even kick in til, what, 2-3 years old. How can a 'trauma' that one can't even remember cause "phycolgical" problems. (And don't come back with repressed memories of abuse. That's completely different to memories that were never formed in the first place)
C. Even if the baby could form a memory of that time in its life, so what. As the article points out, everything's new to a baby at that point, so it could all be traumatic. The article even implies that breathing and gravity are traumatic, and asks why you'd add to that trauma with an injection. Well, I'd argue that that's the best time to give a jab. In the middle of all those other 'traumas', do you really think that the baby will even *notice* a tiny little injection?

Tree

I think it's far easier to give the baby a jab than to try to feed a pre-solids baby some curly kale...

lisa mac

Im sorry for wanting the best for my unborn child, but like I said its un-necesary so why would you??
If its proven that babies recognize sounds from being in the womb that means they do have a memory, and all these things are scientific not just mumbo jumbo.
As for giving the baby vitamin k orally that could also be done if the breast feeding mother takes a supplement, or if bottle feeding puts drops in the milk.
Do what you like with your baby, I really cant believe the strange attitudes you all have to a new life, personally I will do all I can to make sure my baby's birth and life is as natural and stress free as I can.
Im finished on this topic as I really cant be bothered debating with people who dont really seem to care!:(

nesf

lisa mac wrote: »

Im sorry for wanting the best for my unborn child, but like I said its un-necesary so why would you??
If its proven that babies recognize sounds from being in the womb that means they do have a memory, and all these things are scientific not just mumbo jumbo.
As for giving the baby vitamin k orally that could also be done if the breast feeding mother takes a supplement, or if bottle feeding puts drops in the milk.
Do what you like with your baby, I really cant believe the strange attitudes you all have to a new life, personally I will do all I can to make sure my baby's birth and life is as natural and stress free as I can.
Im finished on this topic as I really cant be bothered debating with people who dont really seem to care!:(

The child is going to suffer far worse "trauma" than a quick injection in the bum over the first couple of years you know. When I read natural and stress free in your post I take it you haven't ever seen the mortality rates for child birth in mothers in the time before modern medicine.

GradMed

lisa mac wrote: »

Im sorry for wanting the best for my unborn child, but like I said its un-necesary so why would you??
If its proven that babies recognize sounds from being in the womb that means they do have a memory, and all these things are scientific not just mumbo jumbo.
As for giving the baby vitamin k orally that could also be done if the breast feeding mother takes a supplement, or if bottle feeding puts drops in the milk.
Do what you like with your baby, I really cant believe the strange attitudes you all have to a new life, personally I will do all I can to make sure my baby's birth and life is as natural and stress free as I can.
Im finished on this topic as I really cant be bothered debating with people who dont really seem to care!

They really do care and that's why they're so forceful in the arguments against you. The vitamin K injection is of proven benefit. I also cannot stress enough the importance of the childhood vaccination program.

It's understandable that you only want the best for your child and you've done your best to research the topic however some of the information you can come across from friends and the internet, while having good intentions, is wrong. I know you believe you're acting in the best interests of your baby but you should speak with your doctor.

The very best of health to you and your baby.