Another Rule Question!!!

Woodgate

I think my playing partners and I made the right call but I'll put this out there for your views on it.

Playing in a monthly medal (stroke) yesterday, we walked on to the 12th tee, the group ahead of us were looking for a ball and signalled us to play through, as we were hitting off one of the lads ahead was starting to walk back to the tee, he arrived before we had left the tee so he hit off and we all walked down the fairway together, whilst walking down his playing partners signalled that they had found the 1st ball, he said to save time he had headed back to the tee to hit a provisional while they still looked, and that the ball was found inside the 5 minute limit, I actually think this was the case but we told him that once he had hit the second ball from the tee that that ball was in play as you cannot return to the tee to play a provisional, our view was that by teeing off with the second ball he had declared the 1st ball lost. He wasn't happy with our view on it but played the second ball. I know it's a bit long winded but the guy ended up with a 7 and missed out by 1 stroke on winning. To cap it all he's actually one of our mates who we play with regularly, but I think we made the correct call.

fullstop

Woodgate wrote: »

I think my playing partners and I made the right call but I'll put this out there for your views on it.

Playing in a monthly medal (stroke) yesterday, we walked on to the 12th tee, the group ahead of us were looking for a ball and signalled us to play through, as we were hitting off one of the lads ahead was starting to walk back to the tee, he arrived before we had left the tee so he hit off and we all walked down the fairway together, whilst walking down his playing partners signalled that they had found the 1st ball, he said to save time he had headed back to the tee to hit a provisional while they still looked, and that the ball was found inside the 5 minute limit, I actually think this was the case but we told him that once he had hit the second ball from the tee that that ball was in play as you cannot return to the tee to play a provisional, our view was that by teeing off with the second ball he had declared the 1st ball lost. He wasn't happy with our view on it but played the second ball. I know it's a bit long winded but the guy ended up with a 7 and missed out by 1 stroke on winning. To cap it all he's actually one of our mates who we play with regularly, but I think we made the correct call.

I'm pretty sure you're correcty on this one, once he starts walking back to the tee he is effectively declaring the first ball lost.

PhilipMarlowe

You can't go back and play a provisional... you have to play a provisional before you go forward to look.
Had he walked back and the ball was found within 5 mins but before he teed off then he would have been ok, even if he had a ball teed up (but no stroke played).
Once he teed off then it was the ball in play regardless of the other one being found subsequently within the 5 mins...
Correct call and a lesson learned the hard way

GreeBo

fullstop wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you're correcty on this one, once he starts walking back to the tee he is effectively declaring the first ball lost.

Thats what I also thought, but Licksy is correct, you can go back within the 5 mins, as long as you dont put another ball in play.

mike12

hi,
So if you walk tens yards away from the tee and then say i'm not sure about the first ball i'll go back and hit a provo your first ball is out of play.

IITYWYBMAD

mike12 wrote: »

hi,
So if you walk tens yards away from the tee and then say i'm not sure about the first ball i'll go back and hit a provo your first ball is out of play.

Yes.

PhilipMarlowe

I wouldn't agree.
Going forward 10 yards from the tee isn't exactly going forward in the context of searching for the original. I'd say this one is open to interpretation... anyway, moral is to play a provisional immediately if there is doubt.

BUACHAILL

yeah would agree common sense must prevail in its interpretation of moving forward, that said I didnt see this guys logic in walking back without looking for his ball within the 5 minutes. He had already called you through which was saving the time, he should have simply looked for his ball first then walked back. that said always makes sense to declare a provisional off the tee and hit that, lesson learned hard way is an understatement !!

IITYWYBMAD

As far as I know, and I'm open to correction, a provisional must be declared on the tee, and cannot be declared once a player has left the tee.

staker

Jeez it's a never-ending learning curve

Jasonw

See decision 27-2a/1.5 Meaning of “Goes Forward to Search”

Question:

With respect to Rule 27-2a, when has a player gone forward to search for the original ball such that a provisional ball cannot be played?



Answer:

The sole purpose of Rule 27-2 is to enable the player to save time. The only way he can effectively do so is to play the provisional ball before going forward for the purpose of searching for the original ball. However, this provision should not be so narrowly interpreted to preclude a player from playing a provisional ball even though he has proceeded from where he last played in the direction of the original ball, e.g. in retrieving a ball or a different club to play the provisional ball. The Committee must consider all of the relevant facts in determining if the player did in fact go forward to search for the original ball.

BUACHAILL

Jasonw wrote: »

See decision 27-2a/1.5 Meaning of “Goes Forward to Search”

Question:

With respect to Rule 27-2a, when has a player gone forward to search for the original ball such that a provisional ball cannot be played?



Answer:

The sole purpose of Rule 27-2 is to enable the player to save time. The only way he can effectively do so is to play the provisional ball before going forward for the purpose of searching for the original ball. However, this provision should not be so narrowly interpreted to preclude a player from playing a provisional ball even though he has proceeded from where he last played in the direction of the original ball, e.g. in retrieving a ball or a different club to play the provisional ball. The Committee must consider all of the relevant facts in determining if the player did in fact go forward to search for the original ball.

so are you suggesting that maybe he was wrong to be penalised ? like yes he did go forward but didnt actually search ? or was it just to state the official rule ?

Jasonw

I was just stating the official rule. As Licksy has already said the correct course of action was taken. When he returned to the tee he was not entitled to play a provisional ball.

I posted the decision in response to what was asked after. ie if he walked 10 yards off the tee and then decided to go back and play a provisional.

BUACHAILL

Jasonw wrote: »

I was just stating the official rule. As Licksy has already said the correct course of action was taken. When he returned to the tee he was not entitled to play a provisional ball.

I posted the decision in response to what was asked after. ie if he walked 10 yards off the tee and then decided to go back and play a provisional.

Yeah thats what I thought was just a little unclear of your angle on it, cheers

shawpower

I'd say you are well relieved to have been right. While your mate might be a bit sore about losing the medal, at least now he knows it was the correct decision. He'd have been rightly p1ssed with you if you cost him it by being incorrect.

Woodgate

shawpower wrote: »

I'd say you are well relieved to have been right. While your mate might be a bit sore about losing the medal, at least now he knows it was the correct decision. He'd have been rightly p1ssed with you if you cost him it by being incorrect.

I was relieved ok, and I would hate to have to pull someone but he'd have been worse off if he wasn't pulled, played the 1st ball and checked it later or even mentioned it to someone and ended up being DQ'd