Grand Canal path

Pigeon Reaper

I went up the new pathway from Inchicore out to Grangecastle after reading about the newly done path. It's a nice path for a walk and cycle but I was disappointed that for a cycle/footpath path the council has installed turnstiles that I had to lift my bike over and that people walking with dogs had trouble getting through . What is the thinking behind this? surely tight bollards would be better for stopping vechicles. if the bollards are narrow enough and sloped inwards this would stop most motorbikes too. The path is a step in the right direction and makes a nice linear park away from traffic but it's a pity that it's let down so much by ineptitude by whoever decided to install these gates. Has anyone else had this issue or any idea why these gates are installed?

dogmatix

Since I use this twice a day, a few days a week, to commute in and out of work I am 100% in agreement about those blasted gates. At some places along the path you have to negotiate two gates to get down onto the way.

I still remain convinced that the gates where designed by someone who has not been on a bike since they where a toddler.

Tabnabs

Are they definitely installed by the local council, or by Waterways Ireland?

Pigeon Reaper

I'd guess the local council as they have been making the press releases.

Riskymove

Council, ESB and Waterways all involved I think

http://www.csea.ie/uploads/canalbrochure.pdf

anotherlostie

Would the bollards have stopped horses and ponies getting through? They'd be as big a safety/nuisance problem as the motorbikes, I'd have thought. As a pedestrian using the path I love it and hope the lowest common denominator don't destroy it.

ian_m

They spent over a year putting this together. It's a fabulous idea.

I have to agree with you about the gates. I am just in the process of writing to the council about this. It is my understanding that Dublin City Council took charge of this operation (even though it runs into SDCC) along with the ESB (as previously posted).

The gates are an absolute pain in the ass! What if you have a bunch of kids on the path cycling with you? Everybody has to get off the bikes and and a mini un-mounting, lifting and mounting operation has to take place in the middle of a pleasant cycle. And then once or twice more. Obviously they are there because of people taking motorbikes and the like down the along the walk way. But surely there is some other item they could install there to prevent motor bikes getting down?

You can't design and install a cycle way with gates that force you to physically get off your bike.

Anyway... if I hear anything back Ill let you know.

Tails142

What the hell is wrong with everyone? It takes about 20 seconds to get through the gates, its only a problem if you have panniers and even at that you should still be able to lift it up onto the back wheel to get through.

Would you prefer to be dodging scumbags flying by on scooters the whole time and piles of horse **** everywhere, people need to get real about where this path goes through, i.e. some of the biggest **** holes in the county, inchicore, bluebell, labre park, kylemore road, kilcronan etc. surrounded by scumbags, junkies and gob****es that love nothing better to do on a weekday than sit out in the sun drinking cans at the canal.

dogmatix

Tails142 wrote: »

What the hell is wrong with everyone? It takes about 20 seconds to get through the gates, its only a problem if you have panniers and even at that you should still be able to lift it up onto the back wheel to get through.

Would you prefer to be dodging scumbags flying by on scooters the whole time and piles of horse **** everywhere, people need to get real about where this path goes through, i.e. some of the biggest **** holes in the county, inchicore, bluebell, labre park, kylemore road, kilcronan etc. surrounded by scumbags, junkies and gob****es that love nothing better to do on a weekday than sit out in the sun drinking cans at the canal.

Funny that - you are actually describing the situation currently with the new cycleway and i've encountered all of the above over the last two months. And I never experienced any of these problems in 2008 prior to the new cycleway (admittedly I never used it after dark - but then I have not cycled on the new path after dark yet either). And the gates are bad - at least from a situational
aspect.

robbie_998

Theres only one thing i dislike about this....


there are tv's at entrances/exits to the walkway i.e at the waterside in Clondalkin and the tv's are too fecking bright when its dark.

when im driving by them at night they fecking blind ya and this is at 1 - 2 am when theres nobody around !!!

gotta get that sorted !

ian_m

Tails142 wrote: »

What the hell is wrong with everyone? It takes about 20 seconds to get through the gates, its only a problem if you have panniers and even at that you should still be able to lift it up onto the back wheel to get through.

Its a cycle track. Why should cyclists have to get off their bikes to cycle through? It defeats the purpose.

MadsL

there are tv's at entrances/exits to the walkway

What is the point of these?? Are they eventually going to be sold for advertising??

5500

robbie_998 wrote: »

Theres only one thing i dislike about this....


there are tv's at entrances/exits to the walkway i.e at the waterside in Clondalkin and the tv's are too fecking bright when its dark.

when im driving by them at night they fecking blind ya and this is at 1 - 2 am when theres nobody around !!!

gotta get that sorted !

X2 There bloody blinding, a good few people have been complaining about them, particularly the waterside one when you come over the bridge and get a blinding white glare in the eyes!

Liam_Flag

eireal wrote: »

X2 There bloody blinding, a good few people have been complaining about them, particularly the waterside one when you come over the bridge and get a blinding white glare in the eyes!

I think that the addastone yellow finish to the path is a disaster.

Let's hope kids don't fall off their bikes and cut themselves to bits (moreso than standard tar)

Pigeon Reaper

I noticed that the gates where opened yesterday on the path If they're still open tomorrow I'll give the pathway another try rather than going up the dual carriageway.

5500

I'd say they were left open due to the running race that was on there on sunday

tampopo

point your front wheel to the furthest corner of the gate area.
Swing the gate.
Wheel your bike out.

got it?

stop moaning about it....

RustyNut

Went for a cycle along the length of it on Saturday wouldnt bother again the gates are a pain in the asre. It wouldn't be to hard to engineer a way to keep scooters, motorbikes, pony's etc off it without ruining it but this is Dublin, they never get it right first time

monument

There was coverage of this in the Sunday Times, but the newspaper's site is now subscription based so I can't provide a link.

tampopo wrote: »

point your front wheel to the furthest corner of the gate area.
Swing the gate.
Wheel your bike out.

got it?

stop moaning about it....

Why should cyclists have to do this on a route designed for them?

And how exactly does your suggestion work for commuters or tourists with panniers on their bikes? Or a bike with a child's seat on the back, an over sized bicycle, a tandem bicycle, a bike trailer, or a cargo bike?

robbie_998

monument wrote: »

There was coverage of this in the Sunday Times, but the newspaper's site is now subscription based so I can't provide a link.




Why should cyclists have to do this on a route designed for them?

And how exactly does your suggestion work for commuters or tourists with panniers on their bikes? Or a bike with a child's seat on the back, an over sized bicycle, a tandem bicycle, a bike trailer, or a cargo bike?

well you could take these gates away but you will most likely get people on mopeds and motorbikes going down the cycle way !

monument

Really I don't know how anybody can defend the amount spent on this what has been provided for cyclists.

In the 8.5km, it's more stopping than a route via city streets with major junctions and traffic lights. Sure with traffic lights there'll be days you hit a red light each time, but with this you're going to be dismounting each time every single day.

monument

robbie_998 wrote: »

well you could take these gates away but you will most likely get people on mopeds and motorbikes going down the cycle way !

Look at the Royal Canal, if people really want to they'll bring motor bikes on to the tow paths, kissing gates or no kissing gates.

What exactly is the point of the active CCTV if it's not going to be used to stop such behavior?

Do you really not think the following in just 8.5km is not excessive?

First large gate open because there was no room for a kissing gate and cars need access to a house a few meters up the path:


Just after the house we have a gate:


The Kylemore Road crossing will have two gates (the underpass here seems to be only temporary):


Then at the Killeen Road there are three gates and one other barrier one after the other... were all of these really needed?...





Crossing the Killeen Road you really get the message this wan't designed for cyclists:




More gates at the Ninth Lock Road:




And between roads (between the Ninth Lock Road and the R136:



And just after the R136:



And the last gate before Lock Road:

BostonB

Thats nuts. I didn't realise it was that bad.

tomasrojo

This easily meets expectations of cycling provision in Ireland.

By which I mean it's dreadful.

Bunnyhopper

tomasrojo wrote: »

This easily meets expectations of cycling provision in Ireland.

By which I mean it's dreadful.

Yup.

Liam_Flag

Build a gate...get through it.

ian_m

Nice work monument.

monument

So much for the section of the cycle policy which says:

"We will ensure that designs are created with the principal aim of preserving cyclist momentum."

Squidward

Hi, just wondering if anyone can tell me roughly how manay gates there are along the cycle path between Davitt Road and Grange castle....are we talking every 100 metres (as I read somewhere), or is it just at the junctions with roads, like at Inchicore Bridge?

Squidward

.....sorry, just realised I had accessed a more informative thread than yesterdays...complete with photos of the gates...cheers

Tails142

monument wrote: »

Look at the Royal Canal, if people really want to they'll bring motor bikes on to the tow paths, kissing gates or no kissing gates.

What exactly is the point of the active CCTV if it's not going to be used to stop such behavior?

Do you really not think the following in just 8.5km is not excessive?

There is a kissing gate here its just out of your photo. This gate is generally always left open.

First large gate open because there was no room for a kissing gate and cars need access to a house a few meters up the path:


This is gate #1
Just after the house we have a gate:


This is gate #2 and #3 in background - You will be stopping anyway to use the pedestrian crossing which has been provided?
The Kylemore Road crossing will have two gates (the underpass here seems to be only temporary):


Then at the Killeen Road there are three gates and one other barrier one after the other... were all of these really needed?...
This is gate #4

This is gate #5


Crossing the Killeen Road you really get the message this wan't designed for cyclists:
I've never seen that yellow and black barrier closed before, did you close it for the photo? Gate #6 is in the background



More gates at the Ninth Lock Road:
This is gate #7 & 8 either side of 9th Lock road where a new pedestrian crossing is provided, again you will be stopping to use the pedestrian crossing anyway?



And between roads (between the Ninth Lock Road and the R136:
This is gate #9 just beside the green area at Kilcronan estate


And just after the R136:
This is gate #10


And the last gate before Lock Road:
This is gate #11


The whole cycle path is 8.5 kilometres long with a total of 10 gates if you cycle the full distance - and maybe not everyone who uses the path for commuting will cycle the full route every day, also several of the gates are either side of a road beside pedestrian crossings where you would be stopping anyway to wait for a break in traffic/lights to change.

I dont see the major issue here, there are always cyclists that prefer to use on road facilities rather than off road facilities, generally commuting cyclists. I myself much prefer to use on road facilities as cars are far more predictable than pedestrians but that's another topic.

This is a shared cycle pedestrian/pathway and I believe its primary goal was to cater for twin ESB 110kV ducting/cabling and as a secondary convenience to improve the canal towpath and encourage people to come onto the banks. IMO MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

All users of the path especially cyclists , whether they're just out for a sunday cycle or commuting to work wont be enjoying themselves if there are scumbags flying up and down the paths on scramblers to see how fast they can go which you would have seen every day on the canal towpath in clondalkin and up towards lucan. Or the horses and jarveys racing up and down, which you will still see on the north bank of the canal if you go to the 9th lock on the weekend. They just lift the jarveys up over the bollards that are there.

If somebody came up with a gate that stopped or at least acted as a proper deterrent to horses and scramblers, allowed pedestrians, bicycles and wheelchairs through then it would be used. But it doesnt exist so this is what's called a 'compromise' to make sure everyones interests are catered for.

Just as a P.S. I did watch a group of knackers take a horse through one of the kissing gates the other week, it took them a few minutes to get all its legs in the right place but eventually they managed it. If you can get a horse through you can get a fk'in bike through.

monument

Tails142 wrote: »

There is a kissing gate here its just out of your photo. This gate is generally always left open.

Case in point. That gate is left opened for cars to access the house.

It's marked as a cycleway -- cars are not legally allowed to use cycleways. Unlike the shared space signs, a cycleway is a mandatory sign showing a route for cyclists which can be used by pedestrians, people running etc, but not cars.

Tails142 wrote: »

This is gate #2 - You will be stopping anyway to use the pedestrian crossing which has been provided?
The Kylemore Road crossing will have two gates (the underpass here seems to be only temporary):

Same goes for other crossings: Stopping at a light is quite different than dismounting, trying one way or another to get a bicycle past a kissing gate, walking cross the road and doing the same again.

Tails142 wrote: »

Crossing the Killeen Road you really get the message this wan't designed for cyclists:
I've never seen that yellow and black barrier closed before, did you close it for the photo? Gate #5 is in the background

WTF? Is that a serious question? But no I did not. I'm guessing that the gate may be closed in the evenings / may be related to access to one of the yards.

While we're asking random accusatory questions:

Are you in any way connected to the councils, Waterways Ireland, the ESB, the construction or design teams, or any providers for the project?

Tails142 wrote: »

And between roads (between the Ninth Lock Road and the R136:
This is gate #8 just beside the green area at Kilcronan estate

What about having a secure a wall / fence / land bank beside the route?

Tails142 wrote: »

The whole cycle path is 8.5 kilometres long with a total of 10 gates if you cycle the full distance -

Ah, yes there are 12 gates or barriers or whatever you want to call them.

Opened gate
At the start the Inchicore side at the Nass Road

Closed gate #1
Between the Nass Road and the Kylemore Road

Closed gate #2
At the Kylemore Road

Closed gate #3
At the Kylemore Road – maybe I’m wrong, but the underpass looks to be temporary note the under. By the looks of it any permanent design here wouldn’t be the best and would not be very attractive.

Closed gate #4
Just before the Killeen Road

Closed gate #5
At the Killeen Road

Closed gate #6
The yellow and black barrier at Killeen Road – apparently not always closed!? Full dismount not required for everybody, but likely for some

Closed gate #7
Just after the Killeen Road – my mistake for not including the photo in my first post, but it is just behind the yellow and black barrier

Closed gate #8
At the Ninth Lock Road

Closed gate #9
At the Ninth Lock Road

Closed gate #10
Between between the Ninth Lock Road and R136

Closed gate #11
Just after the R136

Closed gate #12
The last gate, a bit before the Lock Road

Here's the photo I missed in my last post:

Tails142 wrote: »

...and maybe not everyone who uses the path for commuting will cycle the full route every day,

If a cyclists is going up and down the route in one day -- for recreation, commuting etc -- that's 22 or 24 gates per day.

Plus one gate for anybody getting off the route where there is not a crossing (ie Adamstown etc). Even if somebody is only going half way and back in one day, that's around 12 gates.

Tails142 wrote: »

several of the gates are either side of a road beside pedestrian crossings where you would be stopping anyway to wait for a break in traffic/lights to change.

As I've said above, there's quite some difference between just stopping and both stopping and using a kissing gate.

Tails142 wrote: »

I dont see the major issue here, there are always cyclists that prefer to use on road facilities rather than off road facilities, generally commuting cyclists. I myself much prefer to use on road facilities as cars are far more predictable than pedestrians but that's another topic.

This is a shared cycle pedestrian/pathway and I believe its primary goal was to cater for twin ESB 110kV ducting/cabling and as a secondary convenience to improve the canal towpath and encourage people to come onto the banks. IMO MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

The waste of State funds.

Two local authorities against, one state agency (even if it is cross border), and one semi State company going against Government policy.

There's a whole host of extra costs because of the standard and width of the path (mostly if not fully for cyclists), all nothing to do with the ducting.

Tails142 wrote: »

All users of the path especially cyclists , whether they're just out for a sunday cycle or commuting to work wont be enjoying themselves if there are scumbags flying up and down the paths on scramblers to see how fast they can go which you would have seen every day on the canal towpath in clondalkin and up towards lucan. Or the horses and jarveys racing up and down, which you will still see on the north bank of the canal if you go to the 9th lock on the weekend. They just lift the jarveys up over the bollards that are there.

If somebody came up with a gate that stopped or at least acted as a proper deterrent to horses and scramblers, allowed pedestrians, bicycles and wheelchairs through then it would be used. But it doesnt exist so this is what's called a 'compromise' to make sure everyones interests are catered for.

Just as a P.S. I did watch a group of knackers take a horse through one of the kissing gates the other week, it took them a few minutes to get all its legs in the right place but eventually they managed it. If you can get a horse through you can get a fk'in bike through.

Sorry, but you're talking nonsense here, the route needs to be policed. Gates won't stop anybody. I've seen motorbikes / scramblers being put in and out of kissing gates and you say you're seen a horse being put through one. And if somebody can lift something over bollards then they can lift it over a kissing gate.

And I'm still unsure how "especially cyclists" when the gates inconvenience cyclists more than most users and the kissing gates disallow many cyclists -- those with panniers, oversizes bicycles, people unable to lift their bikes without great difficulty, parents with child seats on their bikes, those with trailers, tandems, cargo bikes etc.

dimo

Are the people in this country going insane, or what????????

"This is a shared cycle pedestrian/pathway "

For safety reasons you build barriers and at the same time you share same track between bicycles and pedestrians????????

Why not share railways for cycling? It is safer, at least for the train commuters

Another pile of millions spent for great idea, and with useless result.
Who did benefit from this insane expenditure? Where is the finance control.

Rover09

I was talking to the man opening the Inchicore gate at midday and he seemed to be very conscious of the discussion on this site. I gathered from him that one of the main aims of the gates was to keep horses off. As an earlier poster commented, this has not been totally successful since you can see the hoof prints on the yellow stone surface (and horse droppings) on one stretch.

While I am finding that the new path is a great place to walk a pram, the gates are a bit awkward even for that. I wonder too about their effect on electric wheelchair/strollers, since the immaculate surface would otherwise make the new path a good place for disabled and older people. Of course cyclists have the main problem since, in the nature of things, they will be going further and crossing more gates.

Perhaps the easiest thing at this stage would be to experiment with leaving some of the gates open, particularly at peak times. After all, there are all those CCTV cameras to see what happens and the gates could be shut again at times when it proved necessary.

On another note, when I cycled the whole length on the first day, one of the two pedestrian crossing lights (9th Lock?) seemed to be out of order. Does anyone else feel this?

Pigeon Reaper

They could do the same as Fairview park and lock the gates at night and open them early in the morning. The problem is fairview has two gates and park wardens are based in the park while the new path would require a person to go around each day to perform this task specifically. It would be nice to see how it would work out.

anotherlostie

Rover09 wrote: »

I was talking to the man opening the Inchicore gate at midday and he seemed to be very conscious of the discussion on this site. I gathered from him that one of the main aims of the gates was to keep horses off. As an earlier poster commented, this has not been totally successful since you can see the hoof prints on the yellow stone surface (and horse droppings) on one stretch.

While I am finding that the new path is a great place to walk a pram, the gates are a bit awkward even for that. I wonder too about their effect on electric wheelchair/strollers, since the immaculate surface would otherwise make the new path a good place for disabled and older people. Of course cyclists have the main problem since, in the nature of things, they will be going further and crossing more gates.

Perhaps the easiest thing at this stage would be to experiment with leaving some of the gates open, particularly at peak times. After all, there are all those CCTV cameras to see what happens and the gates could be shut again at times when it proved necessary.

On another note, when I cycled the whole length on the first day, one of the two pedestrian crossing lights (9th Lock?) seemed to be out of order. Does anyone else feel this?

I haven't seen any horses on it since the gates were closed. In relation to the pedestrian lights, these were only switched on in the last week or two.

Cycling it only really bothers me at the Killeen Rd point where you have to pass through three kissing gates, the black/yellow barrier (this must be something to do with the yard with the dogs) and cross the road - it is quicker to dismount and walk the bike (or cycle if there's nobody on it) down the narrow path under Killeen road and back up the other side, eliminating three of the five movements. Otherwise I'd rather be on the path from Inchicore to Adamstown than in traffic and getting stopped at lights.

tomasrojo

Rover09 wrote: »

Perhaps the easiest thing at this stage would be to experiment with leaving some of the gates open, particularly at peak times. After all, there are all those CCTV cameras to see what happens and the gates could be shut again at times when it proved necessary.

This seems a very good point to me. They certainly have a lot of potential combinations to play around with.

Pigeon Reaper

some good news

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0805/transport.html

Liam_Flag

"A spokeswoman for South Dublin County Council said there had been anti-social problems on the 8.5km track which runs from near Lucan to Inchicore before its official opening."

There was a couple of incidents alright..a motorbike was burned out on the track causing damage to the addastone which is quite costly to repair.

RustyNut

Pigeon Reaper wrote: »

some good news

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0805/transport.html

Yay:D:D

silas_flannery

Cycled the entire route from Inchicore to Lucan (and back) on Saturday afternoon 21/08/2010. 3 of the gates were open which is a slight improvement.

Met plenty of kids on horseback - including one who was texting and oblivious to my presence on my bike.
Having cycled the route just after it opened I have noticed that it has deteriorated a little, i.e. horse dung everywhere, fires have been lit along the path etc.
Most of the poles with connecting cable which are along the route (for whatever purpose I don't know) have been cut down.

It's a great facility but obviously the CCTV is not acting as a deterrent for anti social behavior

pcomer

Hi all, just resurrecting this thread as I use this path cycle path quiet regularly and still have a few issues and would be interested to see what others think.

1) Major Gripe with gates still. They have removed the Kissing Gates and replaced them with a gap with "flaps" on either side of it. On my road bike I still have to come to a complete stop to get through these and sometimes use my feet as support as I'm going through them. They are an improvement on the Kissing Gates but are still pretty cyclist unfriendly (and infuriating to use).

2) Medium Gripe: They should have made the underpass under the bridge on Kylemore road permanent. That you have to wait at a pedestrian crossing seems a bit strange on a cycle path.

3) Minor Gripe: The yellow stone surface of the path is actually crap to cycle on. I don't understand why they didn't tarmac it as thats a lot easier to cycle on.

Anyone else argree/disagree? The whole project has had the hallmarks of being designed by someone who has never cycled around a city before.