paddy power

superbad50

hi guys,

I am not sure if i am posting in the right section, apologies if not. I done a couple of bets on the world cup, outright doubles , ie spain to win the world cup and villa to be top goal scorer at odds of 18 to 1. Spain did win the world cup but villa was joint top goalscorer with three other players. the return i received was at odds of 4 to 1. this price was even less than the odds for just spain to win the cup. How can paddy power justify this , it makes no sense at all. I would have been better off just backing spain. i feel people should get the full odds on spain to win the cup and a quarter of the odds on villa to be top goal scorer, and not a quarter of the odds on the full bet.

any comments welcome

Bluetonic

I'm guessing you did a special therefore they are correct as the market is viewed as one event and not two separates.

the groutch

dead heat rules apply to the bet as a whole, they were exactly right with how they did it, it's just pure bad luck that your specific one paid less than spain only

I've had it happen to me too, with a golf bet where 9 players tied for 5th place, and I got paid less than my original bet

FortuneChip

Not a rip off, just an annoying rule which they are entitled to enforce. There was 4 winning selections for that particular bet Spain & Villa(Forlan, Sneijder & Muller), so you're bet was a shared winner with those other goalscorers.
Yes, it's unfortunate, but they're spot on.

Slimity

Do dead heat rules not just apply to the Villa part of the bet though? Its a double bet, Spain to win and Villa to be top scorer. The single odds were probably about 5/1 and 5/1 so a double would be 29/1. Obviously the bets are related so PP gave a "special" price of 18/1 which the OP took. He got the first part up (Spain to win) and the second part of the double was a four way dead heat.(Villa)
If the odds were 18/1 this might suggest Spain at 3/1 and Villa 7/2 which would be 18/1. So thats 3/1 and a quarter of 7/2 which would be about 13/2 I think.
Seems unfair to treat the whole bet as a dead heat.

Bluetonic

Slimity wrote: »

k.
Seems unfair to treat the whole bet as a dead heat.

It was a special not two separate bets doubled.

Slimity

Bluetonic wrote: »

It was a special not two separate bets doubled.

I realise its a special bet, but they must have some way of compiling the price by shortening the individual odds?
Actually thinking about it, are dead heat rules not 1/4 the stake or whatever to the full odds?

the groutch

Slimity wrote: »

Do dead heat rules not just apply to the Villa part of the bet though?

no because it's a single, not a double

threein99

Anyone know what won the bbc commentary cliches bet on paddypower ?

Trampas

Lucky you didn't say golden boot as muller won it.

jkiss

Should be in the gambling forum but you are correct, the entire bet shouldn't be a dead heat. Unfair at least, and possibly a settling error. What odds were Spain alone when you placed the bet?

kippy

Why is this in Rip-Off Ireland?
PP odds for this event were the same for all it's punters, as were the terms and conditions before the event.
If you werent happy with the terms and conditions of the bet, you shouldn't have placed it............

91011

PP would be apying out 1/4 of the winning on all three combinations - effectively making up a 100% payout.

So unfortunately as the spain part was part of a double, your bet is reduced by 75% as there were 4 winning combinations.

So win per €1 bet = 4.75 including returned stake.

superbad50

not every single person reads the terms and conditions before placing a bet. fair enough i lose out on a few guid but that is not what annoys me. i feel it is immorally wrong , rules or no rules

superbad50

5 to 1 at the start. just seems a bit unfair that the whole bet is classed as a dead heat

superbad50

ok ile have to drown my sorrows. thanks for all the replies guys. out of principal i think i will cancel my account. doesnt seem fair on the punters. just another way these large companies can screw people over. down with the bookies:mad:

kippy

superbad50 wrote: »

not every single person reads the terms and conditions before placing a bet. fair enough i lose out on a few guid but that is not what annoys me. i feel it is immorally wrong , rules or no rules

It is immorally wrong is it?
You do know what morals are and how gambling in general fits in with them?

If you're not into reading terms and conditions I fear for your path through life.

91011

superbad50 wrote: »

not every single person reads the terms and conditions before placing a bet. fair enough i lose out on a few guid but that is not what annoys me. i feel it is immorally wrong , rules or no rules

Normally a bookie will calculate a 10% - 15% gross profit on an average bet. If they had to pay out full odds to all dead heats, they would simply price this into every bet.

Basically PP calculated the odds on the assumption that there would be a single result and therefore only those with that single winning combination would be paid out.

Assuming a perfect betting market, and assume that Villa was top scorer on his own, 85% - 90% of money taken in on the double combination is paid out to the people who placed this bet.

The reality is 4 players were top scoreres, so if a full payout was insisted upon, PP would have to had paid out 340% - 360% of money taken in.

Whilst PP are sometimes generous, they and every other bookie would never be this generous.

At least you won! - My German betslip is currently in some landfill!:(

superbad50

oh leave it out would you. i know exactly how morals fits into gambling. All i am saying is i dont think it is a fair way of calculating the bet. i have at least 12 other mates who also didnt read terms , who did the same bet and also felt was a very unfair way of paying out. ime sure a lot of people would agree with me. you must work for a bookies.

superbad50

yes i understand what you are saying. they choose to put the bet as a single bet but that doesnt mean it is right. a fairer way i think would be to pay out on spain at odds at that pacific time placed, then split the top goal scorer bet 4 ways. it's just my opinion. i have spoken to a lot of people on this and although it is in the terms and conditions i still feel it is in a clever way , away of ripping people off. i mean they are still going to make a hell of a lot of money no matter what way you look at it

91011

superbad50 wrote: »

yes i understand what you are saying. they choose to put the bet as a single bet but that doesnt mean it is right.

It was you that chose it as a single bet - any double or accumulator is a single bet.

If for example you picked 4 win results in the premiership for a €10 accumulator & 3 came up trumps, but one lost, then the entire bet is lost despite the fact that 3 picks won.

Basically, the way your bet worked out (figures are examples) was you had €10 on spain at 3/1 and spain won, (winnings €40 incl stake) so then by doing a double you are then placing €40 on villa to be leading scorer at 4/1 (for ease of maths), but as this is a dead heat, dead heat rules apply and your €40 bet is reduced to €10 @ 4/1 meaning your total "win" is €50 including stake.

Can be confusing for the person who only places bets sporadically.

kippy

superbad50 wrote: »

oh leave it out would you. i know exactly how morals fits into gambling. All i am saying is i dont think it is a fair way of calculating the bet. i have at least 12 other mates who also didnt read terms , who did the same bet and also felt was a very unfair way of paying out. ime sure a lot of people would agree with me. you must work for a bookies.

Sadly I dont work for a Bookies, nor am I a bookies. I just wonder why this is in the Rip Off Ireland forum..........

superbad50

yes i understand thank you . could i done, for example, the same bet without actually taking the special, ie taking the odds on spain and villa at that time and if so, does that mean that I would have got more of a return. yes it is very confusing all the same.

superbad50

as per my initial post i stated if this was in the incorrect section that I apologize in advance. I am not a regular user to this site and was not aware a gambling section existed.

Bluetonic

superbad50 wrote: »

yes i understand thank you . could i done, for example, the same bet without actually taking the special, ie taking the odds on spain and villa at that time and if so, does that mean that I would have got more of a return. yes it is very confusing all the same.

Yes you could have done that bet and got a higher return.

Everything is confusing when you don't take the time to understand what you are doing, be that gambling or posting on boards.ie.

the groutch

superbad50 wrote: »

yes i understand thank you . could i done, for example, the same bet withoaut actually taking the special, ie taking the odds on spain and villa at tht timeand if so, does that mean that I would have got more of a return.

[ QUOTE=Bluetonic;66901318]Yes you could have done that bet and got a higher return.
[/QUOTE]

unfortunately not, the two bets what they call "related contingencies", so they couldnt be combined in a straight double, because if Spain win the Cup, it is highly likely that one of their players will be top scorer

rather than take no bets of this nature, paddy power offered people the chance to bet on them as a single bet, at reduced odds that meant they would still have their margin

superbad50

thanks for the information grouch, and thank you for trying to answer without getting in any jabs. It;s like some people on this site have to much time on there hands and love to look for something to bitch about . just wish i were as perfect as some of the other members.

thanks for all comments - well most of you.:mad:

kippy

superbad50 wrote: »

It;s like some people on this site have to much time on there hands and love to look for something to bitch about .

I find this extremely ironic..........

mikemac

superbad50 wrote: »

It;s like some people on this site have to much time on there hands and love to look for something to bitch about .

You came to the Rip Off Ireland forum.
Why else would you post about a company here other then to complain, you feel you were ripped off.

And people answered your question and explained the dead heat rule and we are the ones bitching? :rolleyes:
You started this thread

Bluetonic

the groutch wrote: »

rather than take no bets of this nature, paddy power offered people the chance to bet on them as a single bet, at reduced odds that meant they would still have their margin

Indeed, totally forgot about the related bets.

superbad50

yes i suppose you are correct lad,s. Must have been writing the comments while still stressed and without thinking. wouldn't be the first time. thanks for the wisdom . i believe this topic was brought up on the adrian kennedy phone show the other night. a lot of people also got caught and weren;t very happy , but that's neither here nor there.

chebonaparte

superbad50 wrote: »

5 to 1 at the start. just seems a bit unfair that the whole bet is classed as a dead heat

i agree with super.

the bookies these days espec pp are gone corporate franchise. All they care about is profit margins and quarterlies.

everyday rules are ammended in favour of the bookmakers its getting ridiculous.

Ive enjoyed gambling on the horses many years with some success and nice winnings but with so many Rule 4s and specails changed and messing around with original rules even when you do win they always find some small print new ruling to take some back off you.

the computer timings really annoy me.

by time you write a docket the price can change 4-5 prices down in seconds.

i understand prices will and do change but they should be going down progressivley each new price not just blanket cuts that skip the values in between in seconds.

also some ship had specail on yankees 1winner money back etc but most dont anymore.

most annoying is the best of both worlds sp. is disappearing espec. annoying is not getting international prices form france germany i lost small fortune on Campanologist in Germany because they cut the price to industry and not what their own books had sp or Germany. The prices wwere different on Racing post, paddy powers own site and on board in PP shops.

also jackpots and totes are a joke paltry amounts might as well do lotto

Mezcita

chebonaparte wrote: »

i agree with super.

the bookies these days espec pp are gone corporate franchise. All they care about is profit margins and quarterlies.

everyday rules are ammended in favour of the bookmakers its getting ridiculous.

Ive enjoyed gambling on the horses many years with some success and nice winnings but with so many Rule 4s and specails changed and messing around with original rules even when you do win they always find some small print new ruling to take some back off you.

the computer timings really annoy me.

by time you write a docket the price can change 4-5 prices down in seconds.

i understand prices will and do change but they should be going down progressivley each new price not just blanket cuts that skip the values in between in seconds.

also some ship had specail on yankees 1winner money back etc but most dont anymore.

most annoying is the best of both worlds sp. is disappearing espec. annoying is not getting international prices form france germany i lost small fortune on Campanologist in Germany because they cut the price to industry and not what their own books had sp or Germany. The prices wwere different on Racing post, paddy powers own site and on board in PP shops.

also jackpots and totes are a joke paltry amounts might as well do lotto

Use Betfair.