Will we ever be given the Truth ?

AlekSmart

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/eight-killed-in-donegal-car-crash-2255100.html

Absolutely incredible carnage and one has to think of the vast consequences for entire familes in the area.

Added to this is the emotional and physchological strain imposed upon emergency service personnell dealing with the incident and it`s aftermath.

Donegal again in the spotlight,something which appears to be part of a pattern in recent times and something which,in the light of last weeks successful Donegal County Council Court Appeal is surely cause for concern .

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/father-shocked-as-court-blocks-probe-of-young-womans-death-2253369.html

No matter what,there is a very pressing need for the results of Garda forensic investigations into Road Traffic Incidents to be made Public.

Far too often these highly detailed reports are refered to in Court proceedings many months/years after an incident but then never feature again.

The reality is that in most cases the Garda Traffic Corps Investigators will,with a high degree of accuracy,get to the actual cause of the incident.

If we as a society are to learn from these awful events then we need to benefit from that forensic analysis rather than consigning it to the vaults.

Stonewolf

Yes, incredible carnage, but according to that report 8 people were travelling in a VW Passat, a car designed for a maximum of 5 people.

AlekSmart

Mods. I see this topic has another thread so merge if appropriate ?

BrianD

It goes with out saying that this incident is obviously a momentous tragedy.

The OP is right, more lessons have to learned to avoid this happening again in the future.

I was taken aback by some of the coverage of the funerals in the Irish Independent on Saturday last. There seems that there is a lot of questions to be asked about the driving culture amongst young people in Donegal (and perhaps it applies universally to all counties). One could only infer that there is a complete disconnect between this culture and it being a cause of the dreadful event that took place. It was truely bizarre reading.

I was also very surprised that the Gardai were very quick to rule out one obvious factor that could have been a cause or contributory factor to the incident. On the morning that the nation learned of the tragedy the Gardai were in a position to rule it out straight away. I find it possible to believe that the Gardai could have completed the relevant investigation and tests in such a short space of time. Surely in any such event a full investigation into every aspect and possible causes need to be fully investigated and ruled out and this is not going to happen so soon after the awful event.

I agree with the OP there needs to be more definitive reporting of the actual cause of accident. I have no doubt that these reports will be a source of more anguish to the families and relatives of those involved in any incident but it seems to me that this is the only way lessons will be learned and stop further deaths and injuries. We have to stop the culture of the "roads claimed another victim" as if it is something that we are powerless to control.

foggy_lad

From seeing the vehicles being taken away it looks like a minor collision with the 1st car led to the passat losing control and hitting the third car from its side like it was across the road when the second collision happened, people are jumping to conclusions without any real accurate facts.

Cookie_Monster

I've been out of the country but have heard a bit about this since back. Horrible accident, but why on earth were there 8 people in the passat? I would assume this played a large part in the accident, with people unsecured. A bit like that RSA ad

serfboard

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've been out of the country but have heard a bit about this since back. Horrible accident, but why on earth were there 8 people in the passat? I would assume this played a large part in the accident, with people unsecured. A bit like that RSA ad

According to the radio at the weekend, apparently the reason for the over-loading of the Passat, was that some of the passengers had brought their own cars to the pub but then had a few drinks and didn't want to be drink-driving so they took a lift. Ironically, in not wanting to risk drink-driving, they ended up getting killed.

I would venture to suggest that things like this happen fairly frequently in rural areas, but obviously don't make the news until a tragedy like this happens. For instance, you may remember this incident from 1997.

Of course, we may wonder why two trips weren't made, but we don't know the distances involved. And furthermore, most young lads think it isn't going to happen to them. That, combined with natural thrill-seeking, is why they are over-represented in road accident fatality and injury statistics and why their insurance premiums are so large (if they can get insured).

syklops

I was also very surprised that the Gardai were very quick to rule out one obvious factor that could have been a cause or contributory factor to the incident. On the morning that the nation learned of the tragedy the Gardai were in a position to rule it out straight away. I find it possible to believe that the Gardai could have completed the relevant investigation and tests in such a short space of time. Surely in any such event a full investigation into every aspect and possible causes need to be fully investigated and ruled out and this is not going to happen so soon after the awful event.

If you are suggesting the driver of the Passat was drunk then this is very easy to rule out. The driver survived and it would have been easy to breathalyze him on the scene. It wasnt like they needed to get samples down to the boys in the lab or anything.

AlekSmart

It`s way too early yet for the results of a forensic investigation to be complete.
From sources reported in the media we have a figure of 140Kmph as the impact speed.

The issue of the analysis of the figures and the ability to recreate the circumstances of the accident are paramount in our understanding process.

I would like to see a system similar to the USA`s National Transportation Safety Board`s whereby the forensic conslusions and recommendations are published and thus referencable for the future.

This would be the format of such reportage:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2004/HAR0404.pdf

Whilst it would doubtless be very difficult for relatives and friends of accident victims,this type of investigation is the ONLY way to move forward from events such as this...we as a people simply HAVE to begin to be aware of the need to learn from our mistakes rather than continually revisiting the same places

zagmund

I too have problems with the official rush to determine that alcohol was not involved. It has been reported that the driver of the Passat wasn't driving and I have no reason not to believe this, but we know that other people in the car had been drinking.

What if two of the people were having a fight or a bit of fun in the confined space of the car and one way or another an elbow, fist or leg hit the driver and either caused him to lose concentration or simply caused the wheel to turn ? Or the driver felt the need to remonstrate with someone and took his attention off the road for a second ?

There are all sorts of reasons that alcohol could be involved without it involving the driver actually having any.

z

BrianD

syklops wrote: »

If you are suggesting the driver of the Passat was drunk then this is very easy to rule out. The driver survived and it would have been easy to breathalyze him on the scene. It wasnt like they needed to get samples down to the boys in the lab or anything.

I am not suggesting in any way that he was but it does need to be investigated.

My understanding that the driver was seriously injured and would not have been able to undergo a breath test. A breath test is not proof of being over the limit - only an indicator. A blood/urine sample would have to be taken at the hospital and the relevant test done to prove or disprove this possible cause.. Obviously the preservation of life takes preference so even if a sample was taken there is no way that a lab result would be available in the short space of time between incident and reporting on Morning Ireland.