Burial grounds of unbaptized children

mikemac

In our local village, there is a small area of ground about 400 metres away from a now abandoned church.
It's all overgrown now and it's pretty much wastleland, the farmer fenced it off and won't touch it.
In fact, none of the locals go near it except an elderly man who is a local history expert.

As it happens it's an old graveyard for people who were not baptized, mainly infants who died shortly after childbirth.
Possibly suicide cases too but I'm unsure, it's all very tragic

My question is this now changed? Well I'm pretty certain it's changed but I can't find any reference to it after searching. And when did it change?

Seems pretty shocking to me that suppose the mother and child died in childbirth, the mother goes to the family plot and the child is buried alone in a lonely place

I do know a second graveyard just like this too, it's at the back of the hospital in the nearest town. There is some Irish name for the place but I forget it at the moment

The reason I start this thread now and not before it's in our local paper now. We have a group of volunteers who maintain the current graveyard and two graveyards for derelict churches in the area which go back to famine times. And do an excellent job too. It's proposed to maintain the unconsecrated land too. People are in favour of it, this one guy is checking the local history of it. It's a current topic for our small village anyway

lmaopml

I don't blame you 'feelingstressed'.. about it...:)

In fairness I would too? Where is the grave yard if you don't mind me asking? I just went down to my local one that has people of so many denominations in it today that it's hard to decipher sometimes..I have often stopped to read names etc. cause I'm nosey..

Actually, and as an aside, my local one is Mount Jerome in Sth Dublin, it's kinda old, and I happened apon a grave that has a preservation order or so I was told by a passer by who saw me 'looking' at a tree with huge thorns around the base - it's hidden behind other trees that just grow wild..

..Apparently, the thorns are the very same that crowned Jesus, and they aren't meant to grow here... ( or so I was told ) and they surround a grave of just one person..'Catherine' something or other..( sorry, I can't remember the name fully )...

It was an odd day to happen apon your thread as the first reply and also meet the guy with all the 'info' lol on my 'investigations' earlier today..

It's sad if there were children buried that way, I'd love to see the link or know the area, and 'yes' it should be put right...no doubt!

strobe

Could anyone tell me if there is a specific reason unbaptised children would be buried in a seperate grave yard, or seperate area of a grave yard? Is there something specific to Catholicism that specifies non-Catholics should not be buried in the same place as Catholics?

lmaopml

I don't think so strobe, I know there are multi denom grave yards etc. I don't know if there was/is a place where 'children' where buried in this way simply for the reason that they weren't baptised..

I think 'burial' was something that people did on their own 'turf'...iykwim, within various branches of Christianity, but I don't think it's as obvious today as it was in the past..

Suicide victims seem to have got a dodgy deal as regards burial in the past..

I would hope it should be rectified, I'm wondering about it too, and would like more info from the op if it doesn't compromise them ?? We should try to correct these things for sure...

I'd like some more information...

Whynop

I'd say the burial location of someone who commits suicide is more a function of his/her family's means than anything else.

mikemac

lmaopml wrote: »

Where is the grave yard if you don't mind me asking?

Portroe, a small village in North Tipp.
For a small village we sure do have a lot of churches!

There is an abandoned church in Castletown 3km from the village, goes back to famine times. Our group won an award for maintaining it, it's the tidy towns commission
Unconsecrated land in the village and also at the back of Nenagh Hospital, Nenagh is the nearest town, 10km away.

We have a COI church too in the area, that's now converted to a private residence. Graveyard on the grounds too
And the current church, St. Mary's which is the third church on the site.

I'm pretty appalled at the idea of unconsecrated land for infants. Now I understand suicide was a mortal sin and while I don't agree with it I can see why sucide cases were denied access to church plots. Again, I don't agree with it.

But a new born infant is the most innocent person of all. And goes to unconsecrated land away from their family if they die before a hospital chaplain arrives.
Actually if this goes back to famine times it would have been the parish priest with I suppose a horse for transport.

All very sad, this graveyard we are looking at is a very lonely place
Edit, I'm certain there is a Gaelige term for such a graveyard, still trying to find it. It's sadder then English could describe it, Irish can be descriptive like that

storm2811

I don't think the local church owns the graveyard,it might in some places but the local council is in charge of ours.

The place you're talking about sounds really strange,I can't imagine why they'd be buried there because they were unbaptized,does the historian you were talking about know anything?
The local famine graveyard here is a field just outside of town but there's nothing to say that it is what it is.

mdebets

feelingstressed wrote: »

I do know a second graveyard just like this too, it's at the back of the hospital in the nearest town. There is some Irish name for the place but I forget it at the moment

The Irish word is Cillín and they are quite common in Ireland and were basically used in ireland from early Christianity up to the end of the 19th century.
The only link I could find that explains a little bit (really only a tiny little bit) is this JSTOR article. If you have access to JSTOR, you can read the full article, otherwise, you only get a short abstract.
I can't unfortunately remember any more from college, as Irish Archaeology is not really my area. It would be best if you pop over to the Archaeology forum and ask more questions there.

Jessibelle

I'm not an expert on Catholic burials by any means but I was told in school and by family members that the church believed that babies who were stillborn or who died prior to baptism did not gain a place in their Heaven as the babies were denied communion with the Beatific Vision. Instead they were interred in unconsecrated ground and deemed to inhabit the Limbo of Children or of the Innocents.

In the 1970's the church introduced a funeral rite for unbaptised infants, although practice of it varied from parish to parish, and in 1992 the Catechism of the Catholic Church noted that babies who died unbaptised could be saved and sent to Heaven, although there's still a debate about that in some circles.
Hope that helps somewhat.

Rev Hellfire

Perhaps its similar to an angels plot which you can find in some cemeteries.
If you are burying a small baby/child you are offered the option of having them buried there rather than a family plot.

lmaopml

Jessibelle wrote: »

I'm not an expert on Catholic burials by any means but I was told in school and by family members that the church believed that babies who were stillborn or who died prior to baptism did not gain a place in their Heaven as the babies were denied communion with the Beatific Vision. Instead they were interred in unconsecrated ground and deemed to inhabit the Limbo of Children or of the Innocents.

In the 1970's the church introduced a funeral rite for unbaptised infants, although practice of it varied from parish to parish, and in 1992 the Catechism of the Catholic Church noted that babies who died unbaptised could be saved and sent to Heaven, although there's still a debate about that in some circles.
Hope that helps somewhat.

Yes, I looked in to it and came across a news article on a graveyard in Belfast. It's actually quite shameful to be honest that it took so long for Rome to act. I believe the Bishop consecrated the graveyard and tried to put it right...

They should all be put right imo. Very sad.

Mickeroo

There's a Cillín just outside westport in Bohea, it's right beside the Bohea Stone.

fontanalis

Jessibelle wrote: »

I'm not an expert on Catholic burials by any means but I was told in school and by family members that the church believed that babies who were stillborn or who died prior to baptism did not gain a place in their Heaven as the babies were denied communion with the Beatific Vision. Instead they were interred in unconsecrated ground and deemed to inhabit the Limbo of Children or of the Innocents.

In the 1970's the church introduced a funeral rite for unbaptised infants, although practice of it varied from parish to parish, and in 1992 the Catechism of the Catholic Church noted that babies who died unbaptised could be saved and sent to Heaven, although there's still a debate about that in some circles.
Hope that helps somewhat.

An innocent child couldn't get into heaven but a rapist or muferer who repented could. Imagine the stigma of a child who may have died before baptism in the past!

Vinny-Chase

Whynop wrote: »

I'd say the burial location of someone who commits suicide is more a function of his/her family's means than anything else.

To the best of my knowledge a person who "committed" suicide was not allowed by the church to be buried in the graveyard. A mortal sin to take your own life.

It should also be pointed out that it wasn't that long ago that the "act" in Ireland was actually decriminalised. So the term committed suicide isn't really used any more as they did not "commit" a criminal act.

The film The Field shows The Bull visiting his son's grave which is separate from all the others, as his son killed himself.

PDN

Vinny-Chase wrote: »

It should also be pointed out that it wasn't that long ago that the "act" in Ireland was actually decriminalised. So the term committed suicide isn't really used any more as they did not "commit" a criminal act.

Not so. We use the word 'commit' in the English language to refer to anything considered wrong or sinful, irrespective of their legality. So people still commit adultery and commit sin.

I once heard it said that suicide, when it was illegal, was the only crime for which no punishment was allotted.

Vinny-Chase

I meant the usage of the term "committed suicide". Groups like the Samaritans etc are trying to get rid of the term altogether.

GearMaven

My parents and I just came across a sign for such an unconsecrated graveyard this past weekend on the left side of the road between Spiddal and Inveran! I'm not sure I have this right, but I think the sign said something like "Dumhach na Leanb." (My elderly parents recognized it as referring to such a graveyard although they couldn't remember the exact translation of "dumhach.")

I may not have remembered the spelling correctly, because we asked several Gaelic speakers to translate and only one in Spiddal knew to what it referred--the burial ground for unbaptized babies.

Driving down the road, we couldn't see any notable plot or evidence of a cemetary, although there appeared to be a rectangular tomb-like structure built in one field. Nearby also was a tall Celtic cross standing alone on the cliffside with something like "Lumac na Bearna" or the like engraved in the stone. Not sure if related.

celtic mysticism

Brief history of Cillini

Ireland has an enormous amount of megalithic sites per square mile. Towards the end of Pagan times the era of Monasticism began and monasteries and churches were found to have been built at these sites. It was at these abandoned sites and ruins that the Cillini were born. A consecrated place to bury the unbaptized children of whom the Catholic Church said “were in Limbo”.




Visit the Facebook page
Celtic Mysticism, Irish Burial Rites and Cillini

or the blog http://celticburialrites.blogspot.com/

byhookorbycrook

I know that place, down by the sea,GearHaven.Lots of seals to be found on the beach below it.

Many times in former years, fathers would go with the little body in the middle of the night to bury them in consecrated ground. The writer John McKenna has written about this.Many parishes have taken the step where the local priest blesses the place and in some places a plaque is erected.Remember that at that time the mother was considered unclean until she was "churched" following a birth.

celtic mysticism

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fthegreatweeazoo.blogspot.com%2F2007%2F05%2Fbog-meadows-and-baby-graves.html&h=d9617


This blog talks a bit about the church's stance on Cillini then and now.

noel farrell

in my area there was no special place the were interred out side the wall and not so long ago grave yard has been extended now so no one knows where the are a very sad time