access and guardianship

StRiKeR

anyone have knowledge in this matter?

a judge did not give the mother a chance to speak, ignore what the mother had said, solicitor of the other party talks over the mother during hearing, judge believes everything the other party said without any proof of evidence, granted access to the other party supervise by his mother, access takes place in the mother's house for 3 hours every saturday was granted and that the mother and the rest of her family are not allowed to be in their own home during these 3 hours. for 4 months and to be review for guardianship, where the other party has not been making the efford nor taking time to make contact except for birthday and christmas, never given any maintence, and only require to give 25euro per week ordered by the judge. judge ignored the existing of the loco parentis that has always been there everyday of the childs life since the child was 6 months old,at that time the other party only ever made efford to see the child 4 times.

anyone can help on this subject? we are going to be appealing the case.

Big Bag of Chips

A judge will always try to grant a father access. Possibly the reason for access being in the mother's house is that the child will be somewhere familiar while meeting someone that they don't really know?

And also the reason for the rest of the family not being allowed there is to allow the father time to get to know his child without the interference of others?

The 4 months would be for the father to prove that he is reliable enough to show up regularly for the access he has been granted.

If the father hasn't taken up much access up to this point, there's a good chance he's not going to show up for this access too often either. Keep a record of all times he does not show up. Go to the local garda station and have the access order stamped if he doesn't show up. When it comes up for appeal, you will then be able to show how often he didn't show up.

Of course, it might all work out for the best, and he might just cop himself on and realise he's a father.

EDIT: Also meant to say - he may not have allowed the mother to speak, or have been too interested in evidence because he already knew he was going to grant the father 3 hours a week (supervised) for 4 months. And then bring everyone back after 4 months to see how it went.

445279.ie

My advice would be not to appeal it just yet. It'll take months to get heard in the Circuit Court.

So when it gets to the review date in 4 months time, the District Court Judge will not touch it and the supervised access will continue.

However, if the father does not avail of the access ordered, you can show that to the Judge and apply to have the order discharged.

StRiKeR

does this means even if the appeal is put in on monday,the access still go ahead? I would have tho it will be put on hold untill the hearing.
reason I think that is because it wouldnt be right to put the child through something like this,having a stranger to her walking in and out of her life, telling her who he is after 3 years for the first time, and if the appeal turns out in favor to us, he's gone again, even if it doesnt, but he doesnt keep up to that, still would not be a good thing to happen to the child.

also, this is our house, our home, our little girl does not know who he nor his mother are, she wont stay in the house with them, she will only cry till she gets out the house to us or one of us to stay with her, they are complete strangers to her.

plus we do not trust them to be in our house alone with out either one of us in the house, on top of that, we have a 15 months old girl as well, I am the legal gardian of my baby girl ofcos, so the judge just expect us to take the baby out of the house whenever they turn up on a saturday? she could be in bed taking a nap.

P.S. the judge granted access being supervise by his mother(the natural father's mother), which makes no sense, the child DOES NOT knows any of them.

Big Bag of Chips

Ring the court clerk on Monday and ask all your questions re the appeal and access being put on hold. I can't say for certain that it would or wouldn't be.

Play clever.. if you appeal it, make sure you are offering workable alternatives. You are more likely to get what you want if you appear to be compromising.

When you go back for the appeal, don't say that you don't want the access. No judge will listen to that. But say that you are willing for him to have supervised access, in a neutral place, with his mother (who obviously has a right to a relationship with her grandchild too) but also with a family member familiar to the child present also.

Also it needs to be someone who is not too heavily emotionally involved.. By saying that I mean, you need someone who will be there to supervise the child but also to encourage her to spend her time with her dad.. and not be interfering or obstructing that. You are too close to it, and are obviously hostile towards the dad.. you need someone who will be able to detach a bit from that, and not show the child any sign of bad feeling between the 2 families.


If the access does go ahead and you have to leave your house.. then lock all doors except sitting room, kitchen and toilet. There would be no need for them to be in any other room anyway.

LegacyUser

The reason he may not have allowed the mother to speak is that he didnt need to hear what she has to say as the judge may already have got the measure of the father.

This happened to me. My ex got up and said he was sorry he was constandly late for access and return from access and blamed the traffic in the local shopping centre. Shame that he always used the back roads.

He also did the poor deprived daddy speech. The judge saw straight though him and refuse to let me speak. At the time I was very angry but the truth is the father had already hung himself and judge didnt need to hear from me.

Now to be honest I would not be happy at all with your ex having free run of your house every Saturday. I am very surprised at that. I would put an alternative forward that someone from your family (not you) is also there for the supervised access. I found that both my ex and his family tend to try to come into my house just to nose around. I even caught them looking in my wardropes while I was here!

The main thing if you appeal is to put forward decent and fair alternative but having to leave your own home every Saturday is not on.

StRiKeR

thanks for the advice, we just have to wait and see.

445279.ie

StRiKeR wrote: »

does this means even if the appeal is put in on monday,the access still go ahead? I would have tho it will be put on hold untill the hearing.

Yes, there is no stay put on the order when you lodge the appeal. It could take anything up to a year for the appeal to be heard and then the review date in four months time won't go ahead.

Nevyn

StRiKeR wrote: »

also, this is our house, our home, our little girl does not know who he nor his mother are, she wont stay in the house with them, she will only cry till she gets out the house to us or one of us to stay with her, they are complete strangers to her.

plus we do not trust them to be in our house alone with out either one of us in the house, on top of that, we have a 15 months old girl as well, I am the legal gardian of my baby girl ofcos, so the judge just expect us to take the baby out of the house whenever they turn up on a saturday? she could be in bed taking a nap.

P.S. the judge granted access being supervise by his mother(the natural father's mother), which makes no sense, the child DOES NOT knows any of them.

That's madness, the judge expect you to leave this man and his mother who are strangers alone in your family home where they can go nosing and intruding?

I would be talking to social workers and a solicitor ASAP that is intolerable.

astra2000

Hi I understand your anger but the judge is looking at this from the point of view that it is in the childs best interest to get to know their father , I understand as a mother it is very hurtful that he has not wanted to know her before now:( but please try and put that behind you and go into this with an open mind I presume he initiated the action to see his child many fathers dont:mad:

My own husband had a child before we married and was never allowed to see her he initiated court action and was granted access but to be honest both he and his ex were young and immature and could not see past themselves and when it would suit them for access as opposed to what would suit the child, I am not trying to say that you would to that but it would bevery easy to fall ito that trap. Please do not lock any doors in your house as this might cause stress to your child instead make sre anything private is out of sight and reach. surely it is better to have the visit on your childs home turf there is nothing to stop you waiting nearby.

Maybe you could appeal to the father to allow you to stay in a different room. I must say it would be a extremly unreasonable to expect her to meet and stay with two strangers.you could point out to them that if you are not there or maybe even a family member she trusts that the visit will not go well, it would be too traumatic for an older child let alone a 4 year old, ask for a chang on this but not a change in venue as afterall if they are allowed to take her off that would make a bad situation worse. Have you looked into mediation services these can be very good and in my husbands case eally helped the clerk might be able to help put you in contact. I wish you and your child the very best and hope that it works out.

StRiKeR

he initiated the action because the loco parentis was about to be appointed as legal guardian,as the loco parentis has been there for the child since she was 6 months old and had since given up everything in his poccession for the child. and the childs birthday was also incorrect on their applications,meaning they dont know nor remember when the child was born.

thanks or the advice, we will go get a solicitor monday and see a social worker.

also the seperation of the mother and father was casued by the father cheated on the mother during pregnacy and infected her with HPV from that, medical report can be optain from doctor and hospital, lucky enough the child she is not infected, and at the time of seperation there was an incident of assult carried out by the father. to make matter worst, the natural father has a conviction record of buying and drinking with minors in his own home, and hangs out with a convicted pethofile.

Big Bag of Chips

StRiKeR wrote: »

also the seperation of the mother and father was casued by the father cheated on the mother during pregnacy and infected her with HPV from that, medical report can be optain from doctor and hospital, lucky enough the child she is not infected, and at the time of seperation there was an incident of assult carried out by the father. to make matter worst, the natural father has a conviction record of buying and drinking with minors in his own home, and hangs out with a convicted pethofile.

None of that will make a difference in an access case. The judge is there to grant access, to fathers who want it. It is supervised access, so the judge is aware that the father cannot be fully trusted with the child on his own. Supervised access is granted at first.. with a view to the father proving he can be trusted to be a constant in the childs life. If he successfully proves this, then he will almost certainly be granted unsupervised access.

The history between the mother and father will have no bearing on the relationship between the father and the child. Same way a mother who has possibly assaulted her partner, or cheated on him is very, very unlikely to have her children taken off her.. unless she is seen to be a threat to THEM. (And even then it's rare)

You need to concentrate on the child. And facilitating a relationship with her father. You need to forget about the relationship between the mother and father, because if you start bringing that up, you will annoy a judge and he will dismiss you, telling you it's not relevant.

Think long, long and hard about what you say, and make sure you only stick to points regarding the child and her father. You have to keep emotion out of it, and you have to keep your feelings for the father out of it. He may have been the worst partner in the world, but that's not to say he will automatically be the worst dad in the world given a chance.

A judge will always encourage access... so if you're trying to stop it you're fighting a loosing battle.

PopUp

You MUST get a solicitor, if the other party has one it is basically guaranteeing they will get a better deal than you. I know they are expensive but this is your child's welfare. Get a solicitor and get a good one!

There have been lots of threads on here about access/guardianship and people on both sides of the fence have been screwed over because they didn't have a lawyer. Family law is very complicated and you NEED an expert to fight your corner. You should never have gone to court without one.

Klingon Hamlet

OP have you applied for Legal Aid?

Nevyn

Is there a Barnardo centre nearby, if there is get in touch with them and see can they help out by being an alternate venue for the supervised visitation,

StRiKeR

we are applying for legal aids,went to filled out the form today, it was very short notice for the hearing an didnt think we have time, was only a matter of weeks when we got the court summon last. thanks Klingon Hamlet

thanks Thaedydal we look in to that in the morning

Klingon Hamlet

Hope everything works out for the best anyways