Timecrimes (Los cronocrímenes)

jaykhunter

Los cronocrímenes (Timecrimes)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480669/

Just finished Los cronocrímenes (Timecrimes) on TV (Thanks HenryPorter!) Enjoyable, although my biggest problem is that;

how did the first iteration go down, where he dresses like a crazed hobo elephant man, and forces a woman at knifepoint to strip?

He conforms to maintaining the time-paradox really quickly, doesn't really try to alter what happens. I get that he needs the helpful girl to die and look like his wife, to maintain the timeline, but why? Surely he goes back to fix everything? He "saved" his wife, and could've saved the helpful girl too.

Otherwise, it's always enjoyable seeing a time-paradox movie. Although I don't think the protagonist is that endearing. But it got more interesting as the movie progressed. Not brilliant, but decent.

LittleBook

Hey!! I recommended it in the first place! :P

As for your problem with it ... my friend, I give you:

THE CAUSAL LOOP!!

I must admit, while watching the film and for a good while after, I couldn't get past this issue. But once I read up on it and absorbed it into the "suspension of disbelief for sci-fi" section of my brain, I slept a lot easier

jaykhunter

I dunno if i can accept it but i'll try! And thanks for recommending the film

LittleBook

Welcome

There's a lot more science and mathematics involved than my tiny mind can handle but it's pretty much the same situation as Terminator.

Where does Skynet come from?
The microship of the Terminator that wasn’t destroyed.
Then how did the Terminator travel through time in the “first” place?

Skynet has no source, Hector has no source … I think it’s just more difficult to absorb here because the loop in this film is so short.

And I think the girl has to die to make the other Hector (who believes he’s killed his own wife) go back to the time machine.

... but don't quote me on that, I had issues with Hector's morality as well.

jaykhunter

I always reckoned that in the "first loop" of the terminator timeline, at some point in the future, Skynet gets made (which is said in T3; which directly contradicts T1&2, but makes sense; at some point computers become self-aware). I also guess they invent time-travel, but without the specific need to do so! I think the 'broken' causal loop is there as a mind-f**k!

The big thing that doesn't make sense from T1/2, is that John Connor doesn't exist in the first loop, and so there's no need for a terminator to go back to kill Sarah Connor. It's the terminators going back, and Kyle Reese going back, that causes the loop of John's birth. So the initial loop makes no sense.

I think it's the same deal with TimeCrimes, where the looping parts make sense, but getting to the loop doesn't.

I guess at some point, Sarah could have a child (with another man), and name him John; and he'll still grow up to be the leader of the rebellion; meaning that whoever Sarah's son is, that's who leads the rebellion. So the man John grows up to be is different in the loop, who's Kyle Reese's son.

=======

LOL! Ya, whatever Hector did to get into the closed loop is highly dubious and pretty despicable. There are other ways to keep the timeline straight than

dress like a homeless psychopath and force a woman to strip at knifepoint!!

I imagine, in the "rules" of time travel, your previous self can't interact/know your present self? But you can know of your previous self? And it's ok if you have your head covered? Why go back in the past if you don't intend to change it? It's a bit odd alright.

On a side note, I love these types of films. I'd love if two film buffs/science nerds (no, not the lads from Primer) had this sort of problem, and worked it out, but in a light-hearted manner, kind of like Scream 1, BTTF or Red Dwarf.

LittleBook

jaykhunter wrote: »

I always reckoned that in the "first loop" of the terminator timeline, at some point in the future, Skynet gets made (which is said in T3; which directly contradicts T1&2, but makes sense; at some point computers become self-aware). I also guess they invent time-travel, but without the specific need to do so! I think the 'broken' causal loop is there as a mind-f**k!

But doesn't Dyson specifically say in T2 that the discovery of the microchip led their research in directions they'd never have even thought of ... which ultimately leads to the creation of Skynet?

jaykhunter wrote: »

The big thing that doesn't make sense from T1/2, is that John Connor doesn't exist in the first loop, and so there's no need for a terminator to go back to kill Sarah Connor. It's the terminators going back, and Kyle Reese going back, that causes the loop of John's birth. So the initial loop makes no sense.

Yep, I think John Connor being created is the same causal loop paradox as Skynet being created.

Hector getting into the time machine created ... well ... Hector.

jaykhunter wrote: »

the looping parts make sense, but getting to the loop doesn't.

I imagine, in the "rules" of time travel, your previous self can't interact/know your present self? But you can know of your previous self? And it's ok if you have your head covered? Why go back in the past if you don't intend to change it? It's a bit odd alright.

The problem/fun with paradoxes for laypeople (like myself) is they digress from the common sense notions we learn so (literally) getting our heads around them is problematic/fun.

jaykhunter wrote: »

On a side note, I love these types of films. I'd love if two film buffs/science nerds (no, not the lads from Primer) had this sort of problem, and worked it out, but in a light-hearted manner, kind of like Scream 1, BTTF or Red Dwarf.

Me too. And remember the episode of Futurama where Fry turns out to be his own grandfather? :eek:

jaykhunter

LittleBook wrote: »

But doesn't Dyson specifically say in T2 that the discovery of the microchip led their research in directions they'd never have even thought of ... which ultimately leads to the creation of Skynet?

Yep, d'oh! Em, I suppose someone somewhere could have thought how to do it in 100 years time instead.... But yeah, that's a big stickler! Really lays out that Judgment Day is cancelled when they destroy the chip! There is a deleted scene at the end of T2 where someone steals the hand of the terminator that was 'crushed' and wasn't melted. Maybe that still jump-starts Skynet...?

Me too. And remember the episode of Futurama where Fry turns out to be his own grandfather? :eek:

Ya, that was great. Ohh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. "I'm My Own Grandfather"!

Any other time travel films you'd recommend? (I haven't watched FAQ about Time Travel Yet, stars Chris O'Dowd out of the IT Crowd)

Fysh

The causal-loop issue has had some people attempt to figure out whether there is a law concerning the conservation of information, which gets a bit weird - but no weird than accepting that a single-timeline world necessarily involves the possibility of this sort of causal loop.

I thought Timecrimes was excellent, it had a real sense of Hector being dragged along by the current of events that he couldn't control and his growing understanding of how things will work if he uses the machine is superbly paced.

If you haven't already seen it, Primer is also an excellent film in a similar sort of vein.

LittleBook

jaykhunter wrote: »

Yep, d'oh! Em, I suppose someone somewhere could have thought how to do it in 100 years time instead.... But yeah, that's a big stickler! Really lays out that Judgment Day is cancelled when they destroy the chip! There is a deleted scene at the end of T2 where someone steals the hand of the terminator that was 'crushed' and wasn't melted. Maybe that still jump-starts Skynet...?

The research had already started by the time they destroyed the chip ... they believed that by destroying it and all the research (that Dyson knew of) that there would be no Judgement Day ... FAIL!

jaykhunter wrote: »

Any other time travel films you'd recommend? (I haven't watched FAQ about Time Travel Yet, stars Chris O'Dowd out of the IT Crowd)

Haven't heard of that one yet.

Well, you've clearly you've seen Terminator and Primer and I'm guessing you've seen Back to the Future, Donnie Darko and The Butterfly Effect as they're well-known.

Others I could recommend are:

Frequency
Twelve Monkeys (and La Jetée while you're at it)
Peggy Sue Got Married
The Philadelphia Experiment
Groundhog Day

And I have high hopes for Hot Tub Time Machine

jaykhunter

LittleBook wrote: »

Donnie Darko
Frequency
Twelve Monkeys (and La Jetée while you're at it)
Peggy Sue Got Married
The Philadelphia Experiment

Cool, i'll add them to the list (I recently got 12 Monkeys but haven't watched it yet)

And I have high hopes for Hot Tub Time Machine

i won't spoil anything, but the soundtrack is really great. The CD doesn't do it justice at all.

johnny_ultimate

Never try to figure out the logic to time travel, it will melt your brain. Just watch Primer instead if you want brain melt

Wasn't the biggest fan of Timecrimes. I enjoyed seeing everything unravel, but got way too distracted wondering if the time line fit or not (I thought on occasion the director may have been a bit creative with the time actions actually took, although I'd have to go back and look at it again).

Decent film on the whole though, just nothing particularly mind blowing. Benders Big Score strangely remains one of my favourite takes on time travel :pac:

Nichololas

LittleBook wrote: »

Frequency
Twelve Monkeys (and La Jetée while you're at it)
Peggy Sue Got Married
The Philadelphia Experiment
Groundhog Day

And I have high hopes for Hot Tub Time Machine

Also;

Triangle
Deja Vú