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Range Rover p38 on Veg Oil?

  • 08-07-2010 03:10PM
    #1
    Theanswers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 701 ✭✭✭


    I have a range rover p38 2.5 which I hope to run on vegetable oil. Is this possible? Can I use ordinary oil from the shops or buy it from the supplier in bulk?

    Does the engine need to be converted or will it run as is?

    Peter


Comments

  • #2
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    A friend of mine did this to a 1.6 diesel Jetta.

    He used tesco oil because it was cheapest. Started off with a 10% - 90% diesel mix, and worked his way in slowly over the course of a few weeks, ending up at 60% diesel to 40% oil...

    I wouldn't be too keen on doing it to a modern-ish Range Rover though...


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You'll kill the injection pump unless you use a pre heater, even with that the 2.5 Bimmer engine is not known as being a goof candidate for veg oil running.


  • #4
    limklad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    RoverJames wrote: »
    You'll kill the injection pump unless you use a pre heater, even with that the 2.5 Bimmer engine is not known as being a goof candidate for veg oil running.
    Agreed,

    OP, you will kill the injection pump unless you install a preheater. You will also need to have the whole fuel line insulated also. If you are using used Veg oil you will need to filter this before entering the fuel Tank.

    There is also the Tax implications, Veg oil have very little Tax on it. You will need to start recording how much fuel and mileage. You will need to contact the Customs office on this to stay on the right side of the law. While running on Veg oil is not illegal, but not pay Fuel Tax dues to change of use of Veg oil from cooking to Fuel is. The Customs will clamp down heavily on this, Keep you record books safe and up to date and be upfront about this with them and pay the Tax. Customs will have all the information you need to stay on the right side of the law.


  • #5
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    limklad wrote: »
    Agreed,

    OP, you will kill the injection pump unless you install a preheater. You will also need to have the whole fuel line insulated also. If you are using used Veg oil you will need to filter this before entering the fuel Tank.

    There is also the Tax implications, Veg oil have very little Tax on it. You will need to start recording how much fuel and mileage. You will need to contact the Customs office on this to stay on the right side of the law. While running on Veg oil is not illegal, but not pay Fuel Tax dues to change of use of Veg oil from cooking to Fuel is. The Customs will clamp down heavily on this, Keep you record books safe and up to date and be upfront about this with them and pay the Tax. Customs will have all the information you need to stay on the right side of the law.

    O.o

    You've to pay the tax?

    Wouldn't that just completely defeat the purpose if you were to apply the taxes that are currently on petrol and diesel?


  • #6
    limklad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    Limerick man wrote: »
    O.o

    You've to pay the tax?

    Wouldn't that just completely defeat the purpose if you were to apply the taxes that are currently on petrol and diesel?
    Complain to the Minister of Finance and to the Minister of Transport!

    I am just warning OP on this.

    I run E85 on my petrol Engine, I had to Get a kit to allow my engine to run it. I get the E85 from Maxol so the tax are paid there and then (E85 Tax not as high as Petrol).

    The only other implications are Insurance.
    I need to be upfront with them and had showed them what I intended to do. Once they were happy with it the only stipulation was that I get an official Mechanic to make the simple install that a 10 year old child can do and written declaration of the install and a cert/invoice from the Mechanic to verify that it is working and properly installed. The Mechanic just left a comment on the Invoice on what he installed and state that it is working. Insurance copied the invoice for their records and was happy with that.


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  • #7
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    Wait... If I'm talking about buying new oil from the likes of Tesco, there's already 21% tax added onto that, so haven't you payed the tax already?


  • #8
    R.O.R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,731 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Limerick man wrote: »
    Wait... If I'm talking about buying new oil from the likes of Tesco, there's already 21% tax added onto that, so haven't you payed the tax already?

    You've paid VAT, but not Fuel Duty.


  • #9
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    R.O.R wrote: »
    You've paid VAT, but not Fuel Duty.

    Learn something new every day... Makes it completely pointless IMO...

    Would there be as bad of consequences over uses veg oil and green?(And not paying the relevant taxes obviously)


  • #10
    R.O.R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,731 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Limerick man wrote: »
    Learn something new every day... Makes it completely pointless IMO...

    Would there be as bad of consequences over uses veg oil and green?(And not paying the relevant taxes obviously)

    Good question.

    Is Green Diesel specifically banned from being used on the road, or is it just that tax isn't being paid?

    I don't think Veg Oil is specifically banned from road usage, but you have to keep track of the amount used and pay duty on it.


  • #11
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    R.O.R wrote: »
    Good question.

    Is Green Diesel specifically banned from being used on the road, or is it just that tax isn't being paid?

    I don't think Veg Oil is specifically banned from road usage, but you have to keep track of the amount used and pay duty on it.

    Apparently it can only be used in agricultural vehicles and plant, so it shouldn't be in any car/jeep in the first place.

    What are the actual saving on using veg oil so?

    Edit:
    Google search wrote:
    In Ireland

    In Ireland a pilot scheme is currently running (as of April 2006) whereby eight suppliers have been approved to sell SVO/PPO for use as a fuel without the payment of excise duty (Value Added Tax at 21% still applies, SVO from any other source still attracts excise duty at 36.8058 Euro cents per litre plus 21% VAT).

    IIRC the lad I knew using it was getting it for around 79c a litre, so that'd be 1.15 a litre for diesel, plus the extra paperwork, having to go into a shopping centre and storing it etc. etc. Also any modification that needs to be done to the vehicle...


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  • #12
    MidlandsM
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    Limerick man wrote: »
    What are the actual saving on using veg oil so?

    The planet.:p


  • #13
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    MidlandsM wrote: »
    The planet.:p

    LOL


  • #14
    MidlandsM
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    there's something kinda kool about being able to drive round on veg oil all the same.


  • #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I ran a Rover 400 on a 50/50 mix of veg oil for 2 tank fulls, saving is small enough, stink is fairly bad and you have loads of 2L drums to dispose of. If I could the veg oil in 25L drums that made it about 50c/litre I might consider doing it in the future. Some cars require no mods what so ever to run a 50/50 mix. The diesel filter needs changing more often though.


  • #16
    R.O.R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,731 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    RoverJames wrote: »
    I ran a Rover 400 on a 50/50 mix of veg oil for 2 tank fulls, saving is small enough, stink is fairly bad and you have loads of 2L drums to dispose of. If I could the veg oil in 25L drums that made it about 50c/litre I might consider doing it in the future. Some cars require no mods what so ever to run a 50/50 mix. The diesel filter needs changing more often though.

    I think the main cost saving is if you can source the oil for free. Apparently used cooking oil works better than fresh stuff (heard that somewhere - I think), so if you are friendly to your local chipper.......
    It will also save them having to dispose of it in the correct, environmentally friendly, way.

    Will need to be filtered to remove the bits of batter, chips, fried cat, fingers etc.....


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    R.O.R wrote: »
    I think the main cost saving is if you can source the oil for free. Apparently used cooking oil works better than fresh stuff (heard that somewhere - I think), so if you are friendly to your local chipper.......
    It will also save them having to dispose of it in the correct, environmentally friendly, way.

    Will need to be filtered to remove the bits of batter, chips, fried cat, fingers etc.....

    Yeah, as you say it's a bit of work though, lots of filtering, read a thread on a forum where a guy was doing it, awful pain in the arse.


  • #18
    R.O.R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,731 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Yeah, as you say it's a bit of work though, lots of filtering, read a thread on a forum where a guy was doing it, awful pain in the arse.

    But if you are saving 79c per litre, can get it in big enough quantities and have space to process it, then it might be worth it.

    Set up I saw, a guy had all the filters in his basement. Got a load of stinky used oil, poured it in to the top of his machine and that was that.

    Machine did all the work and he just turned a tap at the other end.


  • #19
    MidlandsM
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    yeah, if you can get a machine to do it, even better.

    what are the duty/tax complications if you get used oil, filter it, and sell it on. I guess if you are selling it on you'd be required to charge vat if you are over the vat threashold) but would you have to declare the duty?

    Tell me lads, would an old berlingo or partner vav (97,98,99) run on veg oil??


  • #20
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    MidlandsM wrote: »
    yeah, if you can get a machine to do it, even better.

    what are the duty/tax complications if you get used oil, filter it, and sell it on. I guess if you are selling it on you'd be required to charge vat if you are over the vat threashold) but would you have to declare the duty?

    Tell me lads, would an old berlingo or partner vav (97,98,99) run on veg oil??

    Selling it on would defiet the purpose. The reason people do it is to save money, you'd have to add a worth while margin, and actually get people near you to buy it.

    At this stage, veg oil is only for personal use IMO


  • #21
    limklad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    Limerick man wrote: »
    Wait... If I'm talking about buying new oil from the likes of Tesco, there's already 21% tax added onto that, so haven't you payed the tax already?
    From a Radio report from a member of Customs and Excise on a radio show years back who was been interviewed said there is practically No Tax on Veg oil in the shops. There are a few items that VAT do not apply. Taxes on Fuel is much much higher.

    While the Government have given tax exceptions on bio-fuels I believe there is still some tax to pay.
    http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_10006716.shtml

    These guys may have more information
    http://www.futureoils.com/vehicles.html

    Since I only use E85 and not veg oil, I just said I warn people and implications and best to do their research before acting.


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  • #22
    limklad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    MidlandsM wrote: »
    The planet.:p
    You mean you are saving your pocket ;).


  • #23
    MidlandsM
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    limklad wrote: »
    You mean you are saving your pocket ;).

    only if you deem the planet to revolve round yer wallet.:D


  • #24
    demag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 122 ✭✭demag


    Rules and regulations in this country are a joke when it comes to using veg oil. I had a customs man come visit me when I called them to enquire about using veg oil, waste veg oil and making my own biodiesel.
    If you want to pay duty on it you have to register as a business, a something warehouse it's called, can't remember the exact term used. A private individual can't just use it and then go in and pay duty unlike the UK where you can use 2500L of new oil duty free or home Biodiesel duty free.
    Basically here unless you're a company you can only use fuel you buy at the pump, most of the biodiesel suppliers seem to have shut up lately too.
    From the veg oil forums it seems the BMW 2.5d engines are ok on a veg oil mix without mods, not all engines need mods to run on it. I know a transit that's done 15k on new and used veg oil with no mods at all and no probs so far. Fuel filter will need to be changed soon after you start using it because it cleans all the crap out of the system, but after that it's pretty much normal service intervals.


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