MOAT Type Incident.

maglite

Just having a look at the BBC website. I was impressed at the level of responce from the police and their role in the incident.

It got me thinking, are the Gardaí equipped for such an incident? I have a feeling they might have the resources but I don't know do they have they type of training that is being used by the police.

The other question that popped up is would that be a Garda job is is it more suited to the Army, or when do they get involved?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/10520061.stm

Turner

The Gardai would be well able and equipped to deal with such an incident here.

With the new Regional Support Units and the Emergency Response Unit they could sufficiently carry out such a task as the UK police forces are doing "live" on sky news

People think that Gardai are an unarmed force. In uniform yes they are, apart from the new RSU's.

They forget that about 1/4 of the force is armed or can be armed.

In 2008
New figures show that a total of 3,377 members of the force are competent in the use of firearms and are authorised card-holders.

Most guns are kept hidden from the puiblic view.

Nearly all unmarked Garda cars you see would be carrying armed members.

Rialtas

maglite wrote: »

Just having a look at the BBC website. I was impressed at the level of responce from the police and their role in the incident.

It got me thinking, are the Gardaí equipped for such an incident? I have a feeling they might have the resources but I don't know do they have they type of training that is being used by the police.

The other question that popped up is would that be a Garda job is is it more suited to the Army, or when do they get involved?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/10520061.stm

Not like for like but a good example of how efficient the Gardai are in locking down an area:

http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/three-in-custody-after-garda-manhunt-124480.html

Don't forget that over the past forty years the AGS was involved in countless incidents similar to this Moat hunt - and they were often chasing far more ruthless and heavily armed individuals.

shakin

Nearly all unmarked Garda cars you see would be carrying armed members.

really? i thought the gardai had a high proportion of unmarked cars and most would be regular unarmed...

Random

didn't the gardai seal off a 6 square mile area in cork there yesterday too?

shakin

yes got very little media coverage for some reason.

Turner

shakin wrote: »

Nearly all unmarked Garda cars you see would be carrying armed members.

really? i thought the gardai had a high proportion of unmarked cars and most would be regular unarmed...

If they are in uniform in the unmarked cars, they are unarmed.

Otherwise they are armed. (obviously not 100%)

MagicSean

shakin wrote: »

yes got very little media coverage for some reason.

Because they did everything right.

mr cowen

Chief--- wrote: »

The Gardai would be well able and equipped to deal with such an incident here.

With the new Regional Support Units and the Emergency Response Unit they could sufficiently carry out such a task as the UK police forces are doing "live" on sky news

People think that Gardai are an unarmed force. In uniform yes they are, apart from the new RSU's.

They forget that about 1/4 of the force is armed or can be armed.

In 2008
New figures show that a total of 3,377 members of the force are competent in the use of firearms and are authorised card-holders.

Most guns are kept hidden from the puiblic view.

Nearly all unmarked Garda cars you see would be carrying armed members.

no way i'd argue that point, i'd say very few gardaí are armed while driving an unmarked car, also there is absolutely no way the irish police force would have the same visual show of fire power and man power that is available the the British police in this hunt, and i agree this would be in my eyes a job for the ARW here in Ireland.
I would put money on it that when this is over you will find that some special forces in the uk where on the ground covertly, and there is absolutely no way the gardaí in this country could have or have the training and commitment and resources to have the ability to sit out all night in a woods covertly looking for a fugitive. Jesus a guard finds it hard to get relief for refreshment, never mind being out in a forest concentrating on a client, in the under growth. so the the "CHIEF" who is a moderator is being very one sided in representing his side of his scenario because he's a gaurd and thinks the world of his organisation, but he is looking through rose tinted glasses and he know that. the RSU are a token visual represtation of the ERU... if they weren't they would be called the ERU.

sorry but weather your subscriber like it or not and with no disrespect for the police force of this country the gardaí & the government haven't patch on the services in the uk.
oh and before i'm slated for my comments i'm referring to the search aspect, not the visual presents on the streets.

meathstevie

mr cowen wrote: »

no way i'd argue that point, i'd say very few gardaí are armed while driving an unmarked car, also there is absolutely no way the irish police force would have the same visual show of fire power and man power that is available the the British police in this hunt, and i agree this would be in my eyes a job for the ARW here in Ireland.
I would put money on it that when this is over you will find that some special forces in the uk where on the ground covertly, and there is absolutely no way the gardaí in this country could have or have the training and commitment and resources to have the ability to sit out all night in a woods covertly looking for a fugitive. Jesus a guard finds it hard to get relief for refreshment, never mind being out in a forest concentrating on a client, in the under growth. so the the "CHIEF" who is a moderator is being very one sided in representing his side of his scenario because he's a gaurd and thinks the world of his organisation, but he is looking through rose tinted glasses and he know that. the RSU are a token visual represtation of the ERU... if they weren't they would be called the ERU.

sorry but weather your subscriber like it or not and with no disrespect for the police force of this country the gardaí & the government haven't patch on the services in the uk.
oh and before i'm slated for my comments i'm referring to the search aspect, not the visual presents on the streets.

I think, no I know, you're seriously underestimating An Garda Siochana. Sure the English police forces involved had to go begging, or were offered, armoured cars from the PSNI as well. In case of a serious incident anywhere in Ireland I distincly feel An Garda Siochana won't be slow supporting the PSNI and vice versa either.

A bmw530 is shag all good to you when you're searching forrestry and farmland anyway, helicopter with heat sensitive camera, dogs and a load of boots on the ground is what you need. And when push comes to shove a Garda rifle or submachine gun is exactly as good at neutralising a threat as an English one.

And let's not forget that Ireland has a fairly flexible legal and operational framework for calling out the defence forces in aid of the civil authorities as well.

petergfiffin

There's no way you could expect the Gardai to mount an operation of this scale single-handed - and that's just pure mathematics rather than any go at the Guards.

To secure a 6 square mile radius is going to take the same number of bodies regardless of where you do it, England has 6,780 Firearms Officers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Firearms_Officer I know it's Wikipedia!! :rolleyes:) so if only 10% of them were diverted to the area you have nearly 700 officers available, this number doesn't include others who may carry weapons e.g. detectives. I would also imagine that some of the "Police" you're seeing are in fact military and that there's a lot going on that isn't being disclosed to the media.

Fact is that in any operation of this size (even searching for missing persons) the Army has always been called in and in fact given the nature what's going on perhaps the Army are best trained, equipped and qualified to do it (not just ARW) with Police/Garda support. I think we're lucky in this country in that the public seem to have a different relationship with the Army than in the UK (probably given different histories) and the sight of soldiers on the ground in full combat gear would probably be more politically palatable here where as in the UK I'm sure comparisons would be drawn by the press to Afghanistan etc.!!

um7y1h83ge06nx

I'm generally moderate in my view of AGS, I keep my views on them as objective as possible.

I believe they would have apprehended Moat by now. I can't believe he's on the run since Saturday.

I think the general public would give a lot of support to AGS in the search and public pressure (or a request from AGS) would ensure that the Defence Forces would be on the ground too.

I think people under estimate the weapons that AGS have. A wife of one member told me the member carries a machine gun as well as his handgun when escorting commercial material that could be used for criminal/terrorist purposes.

And weapons like the H&K MP7 are among the most modern in the world.

There is some graffiti here in Limerick on Hyde Road that says it all "ERU are rats!". If the scum are giving out about them they must be doing their jobs right!

petergfiffin

Addisyn Odd Muslin wrote: »

I believe they would have apprehended Moat by now. I can't believe he's on the run since Saturday.

I think people under estimate the weapons that AGS have. A wife of one member told me the member carries a machine gun as well as his handgun when escorting commercial material that could be used for criminal/terrorist purposes.

And weapons like the H&K MP7 are among the most modern in the world.

There is some graffiti here in Limerick on Hyde Road that says it all "ERU are rats!". If the scum are giving out about them they must be doing their jobs right!

In fairness to the Police he's one person in a huge rural, wooded area who according to his friends "knows the place like the back of his hand" (if he hasn't left the country) and it sounds like he knows how to survive on the land. I don't envy their task!!

Rialtas

Rialtas wrote: »

Not like for like but a good example of how efficient the Gardai are in locking down an area:

http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/three-in-custody-after-garda-manhunt-124480.html

Don't forget that over the past forty years the AGS was involved in countless incidents similar to this Moat hunt - and they were often chasing far more ruthless and heavily armed individuals.

As my previous link would indicate, I don't think the Gardai have any difficulty in shutting an area down? Or, for that matter, using local media to leverage public support in apprehending suspects.

um7y1h83ge06nx

petergfiffin wrote: »

In fairness to the Police he's one person in a huge rural, wooded area who according to his friends "knows the place like the back of his hand" (if he hasn't left the country) and it sounds like he knows how to survive on the land. I don't envy their task!!

True, but it's definitely the highest priority police case in the entire UK by now.

You get the feeling that if this doesn't end soon the public and media could turn on the police, even if there is nothing more they can do.

petergfiffin

Definitely, probably one of the highest profile manhunts in quite a while (at least from what I can remember), I think if they haven't caught him after the weekend I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in tactics and a stepping up of the response....do the British have napalm??

Delancey

All this reminds me of the Tidey kidnap in Leitrim years ago - despite a large Garda / Army operation and the infamous '' ring of steel '' there were a few keystone cops incidents and the guys responsible for the death of a recruit Garda and soldier got clean away.

Ziycon

Personally speaking I feel that AGS would be well capable of an operation like this and if needed they would have support from the Army, Civil Departments and if requested I'm sure the PSNI would help.

With regard to the hunt in the UK, there currently using trackers and survival experts along with the local mountain rescue teams track him down. He could hide anywhere but as he has a very good knowledge of the area he has the advantage and he has a few hours head start so theres a lot of catching up to do on the police's side.

Ian Beale

petergfiffin wrote: »

Definitely, probably one of the highest profile manhunts in quite a while (at least from what I can remember), I think if they haven't caught him after the weekend I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in tactics and a stepping up of the response....do the British have napalm??

They've already sent up fighter jets at dawn to try and find him, I'd say they're feeling the pressure of not having found him yet and sky news cameras wouldn't be doing them any favours.

troubleshooter

mr cowen wrote: »

no way i'd argue that point, i'd say very few gardaí are armed while driving an unmarked car, also there is absolutely no way the irish police force would have the same visual show of fire power and man power that is available the the British police in this hunt, and i agree this would be in my eyes a job for the ARW here in Ireland.
I would put money on it that when this is over you will find that some special forces in the uk where on the ground covertly, and there is absolutely no way the gardaí in this country could have or have the training and commitment and resources to have the ability to sit out all night in a woods covertly looking for a fugitive. Jesus a guard finds it hard to get relief for refreshment, never mind being out in a forest concentrating on a client, in the under growth. so the the "CHIEF" who is a moderator is being very one sided in representing his side of his scenario because he's a gaurd and thinks the world of his organisation, but he is looking through rose tinted glasses and he know that. the RSU are a token visual represtation of the ERU... if they weren't they would be called the ERU.

sorry but weather your subscriber like it or not and with no disrespect for the police force of this country the gardaí & the government haven't patch on the services in the uk.
oh and before i'm slated for my comments i'm referring to the search aspect, not the visual presents on the streets.

What you are seeing is a trial run for a major terrorist incident happening in the UK, armed response units from around the country converging and working together.

mr cowen

troubleshooter wrote: »

What you are seeing is a trial run for a major terrorist incident happening in the UK, armed response units from around the country converging and working together.

total bull s**t, you don't know what your talking about, at a guess your probably had a few drinks and are texting s**t.
:mad:

PrimalTherapy

mr cowen wrote: »

n so the the "CHIEF" who is a moderator is being very one sided in representing his side of his scenario because he's a gaurd and thinks the world of his organisation, but he is looking through rose tinted glasses and he know that..

john carthy case springs to mind

I would put money on it that when this is over you will find that some special forces in the uk where on the ground covertly

me too

Turner

mr cowen wrote: »

no way i'd argue that point, i'd say very few gardaí are armed while driving an unmarked car, also there is absolutely no way the irish police force would have the same visual show of fire power and man power that is available the the British police in this hunt, and i agree this would be in my eyes a job for the ARW here in Ireland.
I would put money on it that when this is over you will find that some special forces in the uk where on the ground covertly, and there is absolutely no way the gardaí in this country could have or have the training and commitment and resources to have the ability to sit out all night in a woods covertly looking for a fugitive. Jesus a guard finds it hard to get relief for refreshment, never mind being out in a forest concentrating on a client, in the under growth. so the the "CHIEF" who is a moderator is being very one sided in representing his side of his scenario because he's a gaurd and thinks the world of his organisation, but he is looking through rose tinted glasses and he know that. the RSU are a token visual represtation of the ERU... if they weren't they would be called the ERU.

sorry but weather your subscriber like it or not and with no disrespect for the police force of this country the gardaí & the government haven't patch on the services in the uk.
oh and before i'm slated for my comments i'm referring to the search aspect, not the visual presents on the streets.

Im sorry that you dont know anything about the training of the ERU or RSU, or any other of the national units.

Or about how many members of An Garda Siochana are armed.

I am not going to tell you here either.

Turner

mr cowen wrote: »

total bull s**t, you don't know what your talking about, at a guess your probably had a few drinks and are texting s**t.
:mad:

You haven't been here too long, and you wont be here much longer either if you keep this type of behavior up.

Consider this a warning.

Chief---

sdanseo

Don't forget that while Detective Gardaí are generally armed, english CID detectives are not. The ARV's and a few specialist units are the only armed response they have.

Take Northumbria, a force of 4,000 with 40 armed. In the Gardaí, roughly 1250 would be armed, presuming that 4,000 includes detectives.

Delancey

Who remembers the case of Kevin Barry O'Donnell ( RIP) some years ago - he killed a young artist and her 3 year old son and the local priest ( somewhere in Co. Galway ) - he went on the run in heavy woodland with a hostage but the Gardai still manged to take him alive and rescue the hostage unharmed.
I remember a senior garda Officer pointing out that the victims had been shot with a .22 single shot rifle and one could only shudder to think what this guy could have done with an assualt rifle !

That was a very good result and I think the Gardai at the time had a lot less of the fancy equipment we saw Northumbria Police deploy.